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| Porn Users Forum » DRM - The REAL Truth |
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| 06-03-08 02:28pm - 6045 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
DRM - The REAL Truth In response to the "TIP" offered by The Best Porn regarding DRM (https://www.thebestporn.com/articles_output.html?id=15). As a producer of video content. The same video content that The Best Porn makes it's money from through affiliate programs like ours. I was shocked that The Best Porn would disrespect DRM users like that. Almost everything written indicates to me that the writer has never produced a video before. If they had, they would understand why DRM is so important, and why so many video producers are starting to use it. I would love to see you operate a profitable porn site by allowing your members to download all your exclusive videos for only a "$5 3 day trial". Of course it is a "Good deal" for the member. A couple of things called Torrent sites and Tube sites have all but ruined the old model of doing whatever you want with the files you download. Just because you signup for a website membership, doesn't mean you own those videos, but some members seem to feel that way. Therefore, if you don't own them, you shouldn't be able to do whatever you want with them. Unfortunately, it is the same old story about a few bad members ruining it for everyone else. I have always, until recently, offered my videos for download in full with no DRM. This eventually led to the posting of my videos all over the internet and then a massive drop in sales due to the fact that the videos I paid alot of money for, were now available to everyone for free. The music industry didn't stand for it, and neither will this industry. The only reason DRM is around is because of members sharing video. I didn't want to secure my videos with DRM and I agree that it is a pain to deal with, but I simply have no choice if I want to try to save my business. "There will ALWAYS be plenty of web-sites offerring you non-DRM downloads (at little/no cost difference)." That won't be true for long, because some members just can't keep it to themselves, so we are forced to control it for them. I know it is hard for you to walk in my shoes and understand when you don't own a video or picture, but if you did, I am sure you would change your tune pretty quickly once someone started sharing your videos with the entire internet for free. Then I wrote a "Guide" about how everyone should avoid your website because you are taking away my freedom to do what I want with your videos. Edited on Jun 03, 2008, 02:32pm | |
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| 06-03-08 02:38pm - 6045 days | #2 | |
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mr smut (0)
Active User  Posts: 107 Registered: Dec 27, '07 Location: Germany |
Sorry, but DRM sucks because it takes away freedom from those who pay to use content. Those who steal content suck too - that's true and no intelligent one will ever doubt that. DRM is no good at all and I mean it. Why? because it's not necessary at all. Look at quality sites that don't care about that. Why don't they care about? It's because they know that their content is good and unique enough to make people join their sites. It's that simple! Don't know what sites you are running but will take a look in the next few days :-). B.t.w. stealing content happened years before torrent, mule, youtube etc. have existed so don't blame these for being the reason to set up something as stupid as DRM. Thanks! | |
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| 06-03-08 03:07pm - 6045 days | #3 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User  Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Hi splatnet and welcome to the forum - it is always good to see webmasters interacting with the community and putting forth their side of the issue on such hot topics as this. DRM has been discussed before and while I'm not a proponent of it - I understand why some producers choose it as way to maintain control of their content. As a reminder to all, Porn Users has stated that it is against their policies to describe methods of circumventing DRM protection - so we won't be discussing that here. The major problem with DRM in the eyes of us serious porn enthusiasts is that we like to keep an Archive of the content that we've downloaded over the years. In the same way that other people buy and stock pile DVDs or Magazines. All of us collections totaling in the hundreds of gigs, hell, some of us have archives that rival the capacity of the DoD's servers. So when you are an animal of habit, as most of us are, and always download and catalog favorite scenes into said archive, it is a shock to the system to realize that those downloaded files will be useless if we decide to cancel our membership. Most of us have to budget our porn intake as it can be a pretty pricey habit - I spend more on porn than I pay my ISP - or my electric bill for that matter. So we can't maintain a constant membership to every site that offers content we like - so we must pick and choose. By quitting a site, we give up the opportunity of seeing any new content that site is posting - but can be comforted in the fact that we still have older content archived. You mention Tube sites - but any self-respecting porn connoisseur doesn't use these services other than for research - as the quality is terrible. Yes, full quality content can be transfered via Torrents - but I'd say a good 60% of porn I've attempted to acquire via that method was virus ridden - so it is a dangerous method. Not to mention the legal risks with the MPAA's attorneys hunting around that area. I understand that you worry about people stealing your content - that is a definite risk of allowing users to download your content DRM free, but you also have to realize that you'll be alienating the serious customers that will return again and again to keep getting the newest content. (Or if they have bad luck and their archive HDD dies... ::cough::) I keep a folder of sites listed for returning, I can't afford to keep them running - but I visit them each around once a year. I want to draw attention to one specific part of your argument:
I have a very simple and direct solution: Don't do trial memberships. Many top sites don't. Instead they simply put a great deal of effort in providing a constantly updating preview section that is informative, interesting and provides full resolution samples of their content. Trial memberships are crazy. Medium to small sites can easily be downloaded in three days with a download manager. If your content is worth a month (or more) of membership time - prove it with a stellar preview page. People visit those pages and they do work - I can't even begin to count the amount of sites I've joined just because its preview page won me over. I think DRM will eventually be embraced in the form of streaming video. Streaming video will become the norm in the near future - it is almost there already. At the rate that ISPs are increasing their speeds, streaming video will be running 1080p HD (or better) before we'll know it. At that point, us pack rats will be out dated and our archives will be silly wastes of resources. However, until streaming video rivals the performance of downloaded video - the DRM dislike will continue. Us pack rats don't like having porn simply lended to us. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 06-03-08 03:12pm - 6045 days | #4 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
I agree that DRM does suck, and it does take away some freedom from the person that pays for content. That is because, some users can't be trusted with that freedom and abuse it. You must know how many laws and rules exist in this world because a few idiots abused the freedoms they were given. Everyone now loses that freedom because of them. Unfortunately That is life Mr. Smut. Life isn't fair. I hate DRM just like I hate locking my doors everytime I close them, or setting my security system, or putting my money in a bank, But I am not going to leave my doors unlocked and my money under the mattress just for a little more freedom. If I did, I would have nothing left in my house, my money would be gone, and my family's life could be threatened. It sucks, but that is life. DRM is an unfortunate consequence of an increase in stolen content and how badly it has gotten out of hand. It is the only way currently to control that. Don't try to tell me that you wouldn't find everyway possible to stop people from stealing your property or money if it happened to you even once. Try to pretend you have a business that sells a product. Now what would you do if some of your product was stolen ? Now how about if it was happening every week, and you couldn't stop it. Even your own customers were copying the product and selling it down the street for cheaper or just giving it away. I suppose you wouldn't want to take away any of the freedom your customers have by installing cameras would you. Or take away their freedom to copy and share the product. Even though if the stealing continues, you will have to close your business and the people that stole from you are now making money from your content. Just try to say you wouldn't do anything you could to stop it Mr. Smut. | |
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| 06-03-08 03:30pm - 6045 days | #5 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
You all misunderstand me. I like DRM as much as you do. It costs me money, and limits the formats I can release, as well as exactly what you said. People don't like it. It is also a general pain in the ass to encode videos with it. But if I didn't use it, my exclsive content that I have paid many thousands of dollars for, would be spread all over the internet for free within a few months. Not everyone in this industry is driving a rolls royce so to say we all make alot of money is like saying everyone in Hollywood is rich and famous. When I mentioned "Trials" I was referring to the comment on The Best Porn about a $5 - 3 day trial being a "Good deal" because someone could download everything and cancel. I have actually removed most of my trial pricing because of that. If the music industry didn't do the same thing they would be losing money until they collapse. Then artists couldn't record and there would be very little music left in the world. DRM will stop that from happening to the porn industry. Until of course the HD streaming takes over and downloads are a thing of the past. | |
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| 06-03-08 03:36pm - 6045 days | #6 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Hey splatnet, nice to hear a new voice in the forum. I think that you have sort of identified the problem which is similar to the music industry: how does a company still make a profit when so many people have no morals about sharing or taking stuff at little or no cost. I don't think the music industry has found the right balance yet and the porn world is in no better position at the moment. Personally, I don't share any of the stuff I download and I avoid the "tube" sites because the quality is crap and because I try and support the company's that put the material out. With bit rates increasing the quality issue is going to go away but, like Toadsith says, I think the shift is going to move towards streaming vids only in the future which are easier to protect. This is one of the reasons why I'm more of a picture guy myself: less bandwidth needed, less disc space eaten up, and almost no DRM issues. I have a couple of off the cuff ideas though. One, is to DRM the new stuff but let users download older material. The other is to let users download more the longer they stay members (that still allows you to offer trial memberships). My quickie ideas won't win me any friends here at PU but I'm just tossing out a few thoughts that might help balance things out between the consumer and the producer. Overall, I'm against DRM and think that the porn industry is going to have to get more creative about how to deal with the issue. | |
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| 06-03-08 03:36pm - 6045 days | #7 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Hi ToadSith, Thank you for the welcome. As it can't be discussed on the forum, feel free to send me an email at chris@splatnetdesigns.com to discuss the methods of circumventing DRM protection. Since you mentioned it, I would be very interested in what you know about that. | |
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| 06-03-08 03:44pm - 6045 days | #8 | |
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exotics4me (0)
Active User  Posts: 664 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: USA |
splatnet, Toadsith covered most of what I was going to say. But, I want to add that your two posts here are filled with terrible comparisons. Like this one about leaving your door unlocked and money under the mattress. How does that even start to apply to DRM on your videos? You still have people paying, and even say it is only a few bad people that are sharing. This picture you paint with your door unlocked is one of people coming in and taking everything you own. Which is it? A few take, while many pay or all take? Go ahead and shut down those few who take, piss the ones who pay off and see how long you make profits. Don't take this wrong, I do think it is very wrong for people to share their porn, but on the other hand, I think it is just as wrong for the sites to tell me that I have to pay every month to watch a video, that I have on my computer. You aren't taking away SOME of the freedom, you are taking away all of it. I would also question the part in your original post about the music industry and DRM. Most of that DRM has been removed. Isn't it legal to share files in Canada? I'm just curious about that. I know it was a few years ago. My first time I jacked off, I thought I'd invented it. I looked down at my sloppy handful of junk and thought, This is going to make me rich. - Chuck Palahniuk | |
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| 06-03-08 03:57pm - 6045 days | #9 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
exotics4me, It is obvious that you don't produce video either. Perhaps the comparison about the business and the products being stolen is closer than my home, but until you have invested everything you have into a product, only to have that product distributed for free or sold by others, I would not expect you to understand how it feels to be helpless to stop it. As I have already said, I hate DRM too, it is simply the only solution available to me to stop the theft, but still allow members to download the files instead of only allowing streaming. I have a way better chance of making a profit with DRM than allowing people to steal my videos. The bottomline is if the content is good, but not widely available for free, and people want to see it, they will pay for it and live with the DRM. | |
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| 06-03-08 04:02pm - 6045 days | #10 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Thank you very much Wittyguy. Finally a post that I can agree with completely. Thanks for being one of the good guys. I am truly sorry that I may have inconvenienced members like you. I really wish there was a better more creative way to protect videos too, but until then, that is the only solution I have to continue doing business and bringing fresh new porn content to the internet. I would suck as a plumber and I have to eat. :) | |
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| 06-03-08 04:09pm - 6045 days | #11 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Also, to anyone that doesn't think that porn video producers should use DRM, please offer your solutions as well as your constructive criticism. What are we supposed to do to stop our products from being shared and stolen ? What if the DRM license allowed you access to the video for life, and allowed you to backup that license ? Would that be acceptable ? | |
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| 06-03-08 04:33pm - 6045 days | #12 | |
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Rick (0)
Suspended  Posts: 401 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: Las Vegas, NV |
Hi Splatnet, Welcome to the PornUsers Forum!! I was the one who wrote that article years back, and even though it's old, most of it still applies the same today. You're right, I never have produced content or run a pay-site myself. However, I'm not ignorant to the hard work and cost of producing your own content. I've been in this business since '96 and have dozens of friends who run pay-sites (from the largest to the smallest). Here are some facts and trends with DRM: -Most users hate DRM and they won't deal it's limitations (well described by user comments to the thread). -DRM has proven to be a failed business model. Most pay-sites who tried DRM, have since removed it. -DRM won't stop the tubes, torrents, and other issues you speak of. Piracy has always been and continues to be a real problem. But DRM isn't helping porn sales, only hurting. Users want unlocked files for a reason and they'll simply find sites that offer them. -The main issue I had (at the time) with DRM with pay-sites is how webmasters were applying it. Most would advertise video downloads, but not explain that they would not be playable if user canceled. -The article was written for users and explained what DRM was and how it's good/bad. Users were being blind sided by DRM and weren't being educated at all by the pay-sites. -You won't find users who want DRM and most say they will not signup to a site with it, even if it's content they desire the most. We have many polls to prove this. -I have nothing against porn producers, and it's in my interest to work with them, not against. So definitely as a porn fan myself I hate DRM and believe webmasters are better without it. I'm sure there are minor exceptions to my statements, but generally they are accurate and I stand by what I say. DRM is definitely a catch 22, and I hope there is a logical solution someday to solve piracy in a way that doesn't handcuff porn's great value. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn Porn Users - Porn Review by the People Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder | |
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| 06-03-08 04:42pm - 6045 days | #13 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
That is my biggest beef with internet sites: promises of unlimited downloads but no mention of DRM on the signup page or tour. | |
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| 06-03-08 04:46pm - 6045 days | #14 | |
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Rick (0)
Suspended Posts: 401 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: Las Vegas, NV |
BTW, the main point of my response was in response to the claim that we are disrpecting those that use DRM (webmasters I assume). To sum it up... I DO have respect to those that choose to utilize DRM to protect the sharing of their work. But it's not a viable solution and users won't (and shouldn't) have to deal with it's limitations. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn Porn Users - Porn Review by the People Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder | |
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| 06-03-08 05:21pm - 6045 days | #15 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Funny. All these comments against DRM, but still no alternate solutions offered. If my video files are protected with DRM that will definately stop my members from uploading all my videos to a torrent or tube site. Why would they if nobody else can view them ? Please explain how that wouldn't stop torrent sites from using my content. You will probably say because you can get around the DRM. I have tested many programs that claim to do that and none of them work. Even if there was one, only a few know about it so it wouldn't really matter that much. It would still stop the majority of sharing and stealing. Content thieves will just steal content that is not protected. Then those guys will go out of business or switch to DRM. Well, Rick. If you are right, and paysites that use DRM will not be successful, then fresh exclusive downloadable porn videos will be a thing of the past. No body will stand forever watching their products be stolen and used for profit or given away for free. Eventually, nobody producing videos will offer a downloadable version at all and then you won't get to download it at all. Everything will be Pay per view. Some producers will just give up all together because that great porn video they wanted to produce is no longer worth producing. How does that affect your freedom ? BTW, polls aren't proof of anything. People will simply vote NO to DRM if they think it will stop it from being used. Some of the same people will see a video they really like, and even though it has DRM, they just HAVE to see it. If DRM was a failed business model why are so many big names using it for Pay per view ? I guess they just like throwing their money away. | |
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| 06-03-08 06:02pm - 6045 days | #16 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
I don't believe that you do have respect for those that choose to protect their content. DRM is the only effective solution currently available to us. If you had respect, you would allow your readers to decide for themselves what they think about DRM and tell them how it works. Instead you choose to tell them how much of a hassle it is, use words like "webmasters bag of tricks" and tell everyone to avoid DRM sites altogether. Is that your idea of respect ? | |
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| 06-03-08 06:47pm - 6045 days | #17 | |
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Rick (0)
Suspended Posts: 401 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: Las Vegas, NV |
PPV model is successful for it's per minute streaming, not it's DRM download rentals. PPV is successful due to no monthly fees and for the casual user. Streaming has it's place (good for high broadband users, instant play, no trace of porn). Ask around about DRM, far less sites use DRM than in years past. The negative financial impact is far worse than the benefit. However, the protection of your content appears to be far greater. Most can't take the financial hit and deal with piracy in other ways (or accept it). You say that companies will go out of business if they don't protect their content. This is not true. I believe sites are more likely to go out of business by using DRM versus not. Companies will do the industry more good by investing in a lawyer that will fight against theives and the sites that are allowing them to thrive. Very few companies are willing to take this initiative though. The music/entertainment industry curbed piracy through legal means, it wasn't from DRM. Again, I respect any webmaster's decision to use DRM. However, we also have the right to our opinion about DRM! The point of our site is to share our expertise with others. You can argue that I'm no expert since I've never been a producer, but we haven't become successful by giving bad advice. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn Porn Users - Porn Review by the People Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder | |
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| 06-03-08 07:17pm - 6045 days | #18 | |
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exotics4me (0)
Active User Posts: 664 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: USA |
Yeah, and it is obvious you didn't go to Business School, first lesson, don't spite your 98% good paying customers for the 2% bad customers. Also, why would you ask us for a solution when all you have done is told us we aren't video producers? If we aren't producers, how would we know what the other options are? You also dodge the part where I mention your bad comparisons. So, I will give you a good comparison. I go to a video store and buy a DVD, it is mine to watch for as long as I want. vs. I go to a website with DRM, I pay, can watch for a month, then have to pay again. Now I will try to helpful. You mention a form of DRM that would let us have a license to the file so we could watch it after our membership expires. That is better than the DRM that requires a monthly payment. But, could you add a second license in so the consumer could play it on a second computer if their computer crashed? You have to understand that anyone who reads your first post on this topic will think you are going to use DRM to try and keep them as customers, not to protect your files. You do mention trial users who download everything, then don't come back for a year. That makes it look like you are wanting to use the DRM to force them back to watch the videos they have downloaded. My first time I jacked off, I thought I'd invented it. I looked down at my sloppy handful of junk and thought, This is going to make me rich. - Chuck Palahniuk | |
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| 06-03-08 07:48pm - 6045 days | #19 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Hi splanet(is that an anagram for planets?) I'd also like to welcome you to this forum. I have never produced anything so I can't say that I understand what it's like to see your hard work stolen. You mentioned the music industry and all the troubles they've had. No offense but that may not have been the best example. We are talking about an industry that has taken advantage of many artist throught it's history. Many a music exec made a shitload of cash while the artist was left with little if anything to show for his work. They are also guilty of knowingly putting out CD's with 1 good song and 12 crappy ones or rereleasing old stuff and pretending that's it new by adding 1-2 new songs. In no way do these things give the right to anyone to steal, but it does open the door for people with low morales. We don't hear too much about music file sharing since the advent of Itunes and similar sites. People pay for what they want and it means that music companies can no longer produce crap and make us believe that it's really roses. I wish I could say that I have something better than DRM for you, but the fact of the matter is that any system that's created to protect files will sooner or later be broken by someone else. In business it's all about numbers. -The price you charge for joining or staying a member. -The amount, quality, and updating of your content. -The number of members you have. -The customer service you offer. -The satisfaction of your members All of these points can and will affect your business, and in turn affect your way of life. I'm pretty sure that after having read most of our post. You realise that most, if not all of us are against DRM's and the reasons why we are. If you have amazing stuff available but it's all DRM protected and no one wants to join your site, then what good is the protection. In the end you will have to close your website because no money is coming in. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-03-08 08:11pm - 6045 days | #20 | |
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bjorn7 (0)
Active User  Posts: 4 Registered: Jan 13, '07 Location: Northern Illinois |
Hi Splatnet, You can use DRM, it's your choice, but I've chosen to never join any site that uses DRM so you won't be seeing any of my business. | |
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| 06-03-08 08:55pm - 6045 days | #21 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Despite the inconvenience of DRM - I would say that would be an acceptable and very reasonable solution. I might even go so far as to say a smart solution if one was set on staying with DRM for the time being. The smartness would be it would regularly remind the user that they still have an account with the site. Though the account is in a passive mode, they could be able to log on to the site, and resubscribe to reactivate the account at anytime and thus keep their old username and password and so on. (I'm one of those odd users to which this matters and have complained to sites when I had to sign up as Toadsith3 or 4 or so on... ::cough:: GGG ::cough::) I know the majority feeling is that DRM is a big pain in the ass and so on, but if it still worked post expiration of the membership, I think it is operating basically the same as any other downloaded material. I hardly think any serious porn user would be terminating their ISP connection anytime soon, so I honestly can't fault that idea at all. Sure, it might be a slight annoyance to occasionally log in when viewing a video - but that really is nit picking in my opinion. I still think that DRM isn't the best investment for a company, despite understanding the drive behind the investment. As Rick said - I too have watched many large sites try and then abandon DRM. I am one of the few users that doesn't shy away from it - but that is largely because I can get around it if I care to - but I'd be lying if I didn't stay my purchasing hand a bit. If I were in your shoes, I'd buy a gun, buy a man shaped target, write "Porn Thieves" on it and shoot the bloody hell out of it. Then I'd go and spend every waking our tweaking the preview and member pages, working on categorization and advanced searches and lists for my users. Integrate a user a forum and try to get the models involved with it. Work to get respectable scores from all the major review sites and work on search engine optimization to increase my Google ranking. Actually, if I had the money, I'd hire a specialist in Internet Marketing and focus on getting new content up. Fast, regular updates with an obsession in maintaining quality. These are just a few of the things that I'd focus on, but honestly - I've seen the effect proper marketing can have on a site and I can't help but believe it would be money better spent than fighting off some thieves. Granted my knowledge and experience with the business side of the internet is with a rather different market (computer hardware) but I believe parallels can be drawn to a certain degree. I don't think anyone here is implying your job is easy or that your content theft problem isn't real. They simply believe that DRM isn't the best solution. Sort of like download limits - those too are becoming a thing of the past. I hope if you stick with DRM that you try the lifelong membership idea. I also hope you honestly consider increasing advertising as a attack against content theft. I noticed Khan has many years of experience in running adult websites. As I know he reads all of these posts, I hope he'll chime in with his opinions on DRM and perhaps some suggestions on alternatives. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo Edited on Jun 04, 2008, 02:12pm (Toadsith: Misspelled Khan's name, whoops - you'd think I'd be able to spell it what with Star Trek II and all...) | |
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| 06-03-08 09:01pm - 6045 days | #22 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
I also remember when DRM was more prevalent on porn sites. It is certainly less common these days because of its unpopularity with paying members. (I remember how long, for example, DigitalDesire held on to their DRM, but they finally let it go.) I do understand the importance of protecting one's intellectual property, and I know from numerous discussions with people on the subject that the majority don't seem to respect it -- unless it's their own. (It makes for a quick reality check for those who believe that people are basically "good." LOL.) But DRM as it functions (e.g, limited viewing time window) is a poison pill with too much toxicity. One runs the risk of harming or killing the one it is intended to protect. Maybe it works for physical DVD's, but I doubt there's much hope for porn sites offering downloads. And has been been pointed out by Rick, the music industry (and the "other" film industry, I might add) are dealing with it by legal means. I actually know someone who got one of those e-mails essentially offering an out-of-court settlement for illegal movie downloads. Cost him $3,000. (Yes, people are not "good," and a lot of them aren't too swift, either.) So if there's a form of DRM that can trace sources of piracy along with legal representation that can make offers that are hard to refuse, that might be a kind of solution, messy though it would certainly be in some instances (violators changing e-mail addresses, etc.). Keeping the costs down would be the challenge, but consider the potential "leveraging" effect. You only need to scare a small number of violators shitless and the other ones will fall back in line -- until the amnesia sets in and it's time for another round. Anyway, that's my two cents. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 06-03-08 09:06pm - 6045 days | #23 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
One more thing: People please post with a little bit less aggression. I know people tend to get defensive but this is a very good opportunity to discuss all aspects of DRM. Many of us users are against it to an almost hysterical extreme - as though it is some rite of passage into porndom that we must shun DRM and don't really back up that hatred with rational thinking of any sort. I understand that it is a pain-in-the-ass at times, but the subtext of some of these posts is just a chorus of "fuck you" repeated over and over. I have to say that splatnet has some pretty honking balls to come on to this forum and post the thread like he did. Yes, some of his posts have had the same subtextual chorus, but the man deserves respect for being open to discussing the topic and asking for alternatives to the dreaded DRM. So a cease fire on the less than subtle attacks would be sweet. Everybody is aware that DRM isn't loved - let us instead help the industry shake off DRM's shackles and make money in ways that we can all be happy with. To peace, love and hardcore pornography. It's what we are here for. P.S. This isn't in response to Drooler's previous post. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 06-03-08 11:24pm - 6045 days | #24 | |
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nygiants03 (0)
Active User  Posts: 23 Registered: Apr 15, '07 Location: USA |
DRM sites are a waste of time in my eyes. Why would I join a DRM site when I can join any other site that is not? I pay for my content and I deserve to keep it. Torrents and other similiar programs have been out for over a decade, and that hasnt stop internet porn from being a HUGE multi billion dollar business. Its not like every single video you ever made is just that easily accessible for anyone to download. If it is, I don't know anything about such a thing. | |
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| 06-04-08 06:54am - 6044 days | #25 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Porn is the most browsed subject on the internet - in the western world - well, probably all over the world. Bet even members of Taliban wacks off in their caves by generator-powered laptops. No question it's an industry where - some - people makes trainloads of money. Maybe not you, splatnet. And I respect your concern for your (small?) business. But I do not agree about DRM. I'd never join a site with DRM, anymore. No pornuser with a little experience would spend time looking for porn at Utube or alike. The quality is worse than horrible. Torrent: Never been there, but was warned about it - loaded with files infected with virus But for all "normal" or rather more serious pornusers the only way is paying for it. Paying for sites we hope to be good - that's a reason for this PU. Never experienced any requests here from fellow PUs to share any files! Never offered it, just the ups and downs. I once was a member of Easynews, guess everybody knows what that is. The webmaster here at TBP/PU asked me when I was a little green in this field not to make reviews on that since it consisted of "stolen goods"..... That also speaks for itself. BTW: I see you have 8 sites. Among them one called "Stolen Home Movies"....just curious (and NO accusation meant) "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" Edited on Jun 04, 2008, 07:01am | |
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| 06-04-08 07:19am - 6044 days | #26 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Just this, Toadsith I totally agree with your point of no aggression here...It's pretty courageous of splatnet to do that input - and it has created a fine thread/discussion. BTW: Man, your only 25 - and with that power of words/speech (or whatever it's called in english)....I'm impressed. (Here I regret my native language is not english) But, anyway: Peace.........and a little softcore porn, too! "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" Edited on Jun 04, 2008, 07:24am | |
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| 06-04-08 09:04am - 6044 days | #27 | |
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Khan (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,737 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: USA |
Hmmmm .... I generally stay out of discussions about DRM these days. I've been in enough discussions on webmaster forums over the years to learn that those that feel it's needed will never be convinced otherwise by reason and logic. Just as those who hate it will never be convinced it's a necessary evil as some would tell you. First, for the record, I have run adult sites for over 10 years but they've mostly been free sites. Though I did manage a block of pay sites for one of the larger sponsor programs for a time and I have been sought for advice from countless pay site owners, I don't presume to know everything there is to know about pay sites. For a very short time, I produced (photo) content so I can attest to the fact that seeing your content stolen sucks. It leaves you feeling violated much like having your home broken in to. Those that produce content have both the right and the responsibility to protect their copyrights. But .... If they hope to earn from their content they also have to consider what the consumer is willing to pay for. They (the content producers) must understand that DRM is not liked at all by most consumers and if they insist on using it, then they should expect fewer customers and more complaints. What many people fail to see is that the debate over DRM is really a debate over what you "buy" when you purchase a membership to a pay site. To many surfers, they feel if they've bought a monthly membership and downloaded some content, then that content is virtually theirs to so with as they like ... barring resale of it. On the other hand, many webmaster see buying a membership as being the same as buying a monthly pass to your local movie house. To them, you rightfully have access to their content ONLY for as long as you retain your membership. Of course there's a large percentage of those (webmasters and surfers alike) who's idea of what you're buying is some place in the middle of those two extremes. Me, I'm old school and a firm believer in the "your site, your rules" approach. I think if a webmaster feels they must use DRM to "protect" their investment then that's their right. However, I think they also have a responsibility to let the potential customer know BEFORE they purchase a membership that their access will be limited. That way, the customer is free to make an informed decision if the content (even with it's limited use) is worth the price of membership. The funny thing is, for all the people I've heard argue in favor of DRM, I can't recall EVER seeing a notice on a pay site tour that warns the potential customer that they'll only have access to the content for the term of their membership. As far as solutions ... I have none really. For those who insist on using DRM, I suggest that they use it in a way that allows the customer to view the content even after their membership has expired. But even that is a compromise since, as pointed out here, many users save their downloads to external hard drives with the idea of playing it back on whatever computer they own at the time. I would support webmasters who track down and prosecute those who've stolen their content but I fear that the costs related to that course of action is usually prohibitive. In the meantime, providing a site that has frequent updates with high quality content is still the best approach to having successful pay site. So, I was asked for my opinion and there you have it. Hope someone got something out of all that rambling. ;) Former PornUsers Senior Administrator Now at: MyPorn.com "To get your ideas across use small words, big ideas, and short sentences."-John Henry Patterson | |
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| 06-04-08 12:13pm - 6044 days | #28 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Thank you Toadsith. It is a pleasure to have this conversation with you. I don't think it takes huge balls, just a desparate man at the end of his rope about a problem that is ruining his business. Most of you may know what sites I run. My main niche is Homemade porn Videos. I purchase videos from amateur couples to post on my site. I have been doing this for 8 years now. My videos have been stolen from the very beginning but more recently, the popularity of torrent and tube sites has really had a negative impact on our sales. I have members that simply download everything, and then upload EVERYTHING for credit at torrent sites. I do mean EVERYTHING. One torrent site has about 90% of the 500 videos we own already posted. After several requests to the site owner to remove them, I think the member is now in the process of posting the rest of them. Hundreds of Homemade porn websites post my content without my permission. Since the quality of the videos is not great in the first place, quality is not what my members want. They want the REAL home videos shot on the old crappy cameras most people have at home. I think because of the fact that they are poor quality, and from regular couples, some people think they are public domain. Some of you may not know what is like to invest 8 years of your life working hard and many thousands of dollars into something, and then watch that all slowly be taken away by criminals and even your own members. My sites were very successful in the beginning. I was doing almost daily exclusive updates plus offering hundreds of bonus sites and rebilling was great. Then the first of about 10 emails started to come from potential members late last year. "Why would I pay for your site when someone is posting all your videos to a free site." After a few more emails and a bribe, I found out that every update I posted, was being downloaded immediately by a member, then uploaded to a very popular torrent site. Sales started to drop. I emailed the torrent site to remove them. They replied to say they would do that, then nothing happened. More archived videos were being posted everyday along with my updates. I begged them to stop. It didn't. I threatened. It got worse. My next step is the lawyer, but I can't afford it because my sales dropped. I can't afford daily updates anymore because my sales dropped. I can't afford the hundreds of bonus sites because my sales dropped. And the cycle begins. Less updates, members cancel. Members cancel, less sales. I am sure you see where I am going with this. There was nothing I could do to stop it, until DRM came along. I know it sucks for the end user, but what else was I supposed to do ? What would you do in that situation ? DRM has many options. It can allow the content to be viewed for an hour or forever. It can allow burning or not. It can allow 1 computer to play it, or 1000. The latest DRM technology is compatable with most systems and makes it super easy to get the license and view the content. The nice thing about it is, if the DRM protection is not removed, it allows the owner to disable the license at any time if it is being abused. The only problem that I can see with it now, as Toadsith mentioned and proved to me, is the fact that it can be circumvented. SO WHAT DO I DO ? Just give up on DRM and offer completely unprotected files and hope things get better ? Do I continue with DRM, but offer more freedom with the license to hopefully slow down the problem ? Do I give up completely on offering downloadable videos and just offer Flash streaming versions ? Pay per view ? Tangible DVD's ? I just want someone to put themselves in the situation I just explained, and give me an honest response as to what they would do. | |
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| 06-04-08 12:15pm - 6044 days | #29 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Thanks bjorn7, but as anyone can see, I'm not here trying to recruit members. | |
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| 06-04-08 12:24pm - 6044 days | #30 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
I think Khan has basically identified the issue from the porn producers perspective: either the consumer is buying the right to the content or buying the right to view the content for the length of the membership. Upon reflection I think the DRM debate is more akin to the software industry rather than the music industry. In the music industry, artists and producers have multiple revenue streams (cds, singles, concerts, advertising, etc.) which is not really possible in the porn world. In the software world, a lot of what we use on our computers we don't technically own, we only have a license to use it (read the fine print on your software and download agreements). Microsoft, Mac and all the other software companies get ripped off everyday by pirating yet they still manage to make money. While pirating has a more immediate impact on small to medium sized companies (just a guess) they all have to deal with it and somehow manage to do so. How do the software companies do it? I remember about a 10 years ago Microsoft started going after businesses that would buy one OS and install it on every computer. After this started hitting the news a lot of people fell into line (sort of what the music industry has been trying more recently, rather unsuccessfully I might add). What porn producers probably need to is start chasing some of the free download sites that have heavy pirated content. Will this stop the bleeding? No, nothing will but it will slow it down. Technology will probably be the key to solving this issue. If there is some way to license a product for personal use only then I'm all for it -- if you're worried about losing it due to a computer crash just download it to a portable hard drive. Will people find a way around it? Of course, just like they do with DRM now but the average consumer will probably play by the rules and not have the technical sophistication or the time to work around the limitations. Having a quality product with frequent updates is what drives the best porn sites out there and those are ones that typically don't have DRM. Just like software, a good product will keep consumers coming back but you have to accept that there will always be those who won't play by the rules. p.s. - Hats off to splatnet for having the cahoonies to post here. Edited on Jun 04, 2008, 01:12pm | |
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| 06-04-08 12:28pm - 6044 days | #31 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Hello Denner. Thank you for your comments. Stolen Home Movies of course does not consist of any stolen material. We clearly post or 2257 model information on the main pages. It is like any other fantasy website out there. The guys on Bangbus didn't really just pick up random girls off the street. Most sites that claim to be reality sites, are not real. They are staged to look real. Stolen Home Movies claims to obtain movies by unscrupulous means, but all of them were purchased from the couples themselves with proper documents. The fantasy of seeing videos that are stolen and therefore weren't meant to be seen by anyone seems taboo and many people like that. The bad torrent sites that upload viruses are not the torrent sites that I am worried about. They don't have a huge following because word gets around. The torrent sites that don't give you viruses are hugely popular and demand users upload original content for credit. | |
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| 06-04-08 12:40pm - 6044 days | #32 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
I agree. You deserve to keep it for yourself for as long as you like. Unfortunately, some members go beyond that and feel they should share it with as many people as they can so they can be a hero on that network. So YES ! That means that every single video I have ever made, or will make, will be posted on the internet for free. The difference between now and then is torrent sites have only become really popular in recent years. Just like the music industry was fine until Napster became popular. The popularity of Tube sites and Torrents has now exploded. The music industry has been losing money for years because of music sharing. The adult industry is starting to now. Ask anyone in the industry if tube and torrent sites or video sharing sites of any kind are effecting there sales dramatically. It is only common sense. If you can get it for free, you aren't going to pay for it. | |
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| 06-04-08 12:53pm - 6044 days | #33 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Thanks Wittyguy I agree with everything you said, except this: "While pirating has a more immediate impact on small to medium sized companies (just a guess) they all have to deal with it and somehow manage to do so." Some actually can't deal with it because they don't have the money that Microsoft does. If I had hundreds of thousands to spend on lawyers to chase these guys, internationally, I would have much less of a problem. I like your comparison using software. If Windows was widely available for download on hundreds of websites for free, and they were helpless to stop it, don't tell me they would have lasted more than a few years. But that is not really a fair comparison either because Windows has always had some sort of protection anyway. I mean you all buy a license for software right ? You don't have the freedom to install it on 4 computers. You don't have the freedom to do whatever you want with it. Some even only offer the license for a year. Why is that OK and acceptable, but protecting my content with the same sort of limitations nis not ??? | |
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| 06-04-08 01:22pm - 6044 days | #34 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Actually, the porn producers are probably going to have to band to together to make some sort of legal consortium as I doubt any one porn company really has the resources to go after people at a Microsoft level. However, I don't think the legal effort would have to be as exteme or intense. Just threatening to publish names of illegal posters would probably shut a lot of people up. All it takes is some publicity about outting people posting porn and the general public would start getting the hint (who wants to have their name associated with illegal porn use). As for being concerned about protecting your property like a software licensing agreement, this just recirculates the question about your views on the intellectual property of porn -- do consumers get to keep it or just look at it. I think my prior post suggested that technology might save the day in the future but for now you're going to have to weigh the costs of using DRM. At a practical level, you could consider banding together with other site owners to offer some sort of multi site membership that might help offset some of your losses with access to more content. Again, there is the money trade off but if you're losing so much right now as a stand alone then I don't see how this would hurt much more. | |
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| 06-04-08 01:34pm - 6044 days | #35 | |||||
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
No. I didn't go to business school. I was already too busy building a successful business by learning and reading everything I could from the net and putting what I learned to work in my successful business. More than most Business grads end up with. I do know that nobody can run a successful business when they are being stolen from constantly. There is no theft insurance for porn videos.
Because you weren't looking at it from both sides. You only saw DRM as the evil doer. I want solutions that both the producer and the customer can live with.
Maybe you didn't read the entire post. Have a closer look. I agreed that the home invasion is not as good as my business product comparison. I am not arguing the fact that you should be able to watch that video for as long as you want. What you shouldn't be allowed to do is go home and make 1000 copies, and then sell them down the street for half price. Or give them away for free with every order of your new DVD. In the brick and mortar world, you would be arrested. In the internet world, you would make a comfortable living.
YES !! Absolutely. That is the beauty of it. It allows for many options. Now we are getting somewhere. Thank you
I was quoting a line from the article regarding a "3 day $5 trial" being a "Good Deal" because you could download everything for only $5. Well, should I just start asking for a small nonperishable food donation for access ? $5 wouldn't even cover the hosting fees once the billing company took their %. | |||||
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| 06-04-08 02:09pm - 6044 days | #36 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User  Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
Being in LA and having friends in the motion picture industry, protection of intellectual property is a very old subject that goes back to the introduction of VCR's in the late 1970's, so I'm quite aware of, and sympathetic to, the issue of the economic losses that can be caused by piracy. Back in the day when my porn acquisitions were solely on videotape rentals from the store, mainstream movie rentals all had copyright protection but only a very few porn videos used any protection. (And I mean both kinds - condoms and anti-piracy features.) I asked and was told that the reason was the cost of adding anti-piracy protection to a porn video was higher than any cost (via reduced revenues) from pirated videos. And that porn was such a low cost/high revenue business there was no need to piss off the customer. Mainstream movies, however, have much lower margins (percentage-wise) so anti-piracy protection was, for them, worthwhile. I really would think the same thing applies to on-line porn. The primary cost to a porn site is content, but the business model depends on the volume of sign-ups to make a profit. Share sites are a concern, but the vast majority of porn sites feed specific interests which the share sites cannot do. More to the point, the porn producers in the 1990's and early 2000's had more to fear from unauthorized dupes and sales of their VHS stuff than porn sites have through share sites. And that characteristic is affirmed by the fact that, even the most paranoid sites (e.g., Danni.com) have recently dropped DRM with a resultant quick bump in new memberships. Bottom line (at least to me) is that DRM is much more of a drag on the revenue line of a porn site because most folks like me will never sign up for a site with DRM, and most folks like me aren't interested in share sites nor will we use them. I'm completely sympathetic and completely agree with everything that Splatnet says in defense of a site's exposure to economic loss from piracy. However, as with any anti-piracy techniques, using DRM has its revenue consequences and I assume that Splatnet considered those consequences in his decision to use DRM. Edited on Jun 04, 2008, 02:16pm | |
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| 06-04-08 04:17pm - 6044 days | #37 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Thanks :-) My family is rather verbose, so I grew up speaking this way. Language is fun to play with - I just wish I was even remotely competent in another language. I'm your typical American: Unilingual :-P Also, that was a good point you mentioned: Softcore should be extolled as well! "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 06-04-08 05:52pm - 6044 days | #38 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Thanks to everyone that posted. I really appreciate all the constructive comments and opinions. I still don't really have a good solution to my problem, but at least I have heard how the other side feels about DRM and learned a few things. I guess I have some hard decisions to make and alot of research to do. | |
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| 06-04-08 07:26pm - 6044 days | #39 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Splatnet I really do not think you are going to win any votes here because you are complaining in the wrong place. Pretty much everyone here PAYS for what we download. I know that some of us pour $100s a month into paying for what you and others produce. I realize your frustrations as well as ours. You get ripped off by people spreading your stuff around, but we get ripped off too because we just paid $30 for the exact same thing. I do not mind paying, you have to eat too. But I honestly do not like the idea of someone getting everything I have for free after I paid thousands for my collection too. I also fear the day of streaming only. Hence the reason why I download so much now, I need some to last for a while. Here is a curious though. Is there a way to tag the videos when they are downloaded to that the person who downloaded the video from the site can be identified by the video. This way if the videos show up everywhere there is a way to tell who it was who originally posted openly, thus this person could be banned. Just a thought....those of us who do not post everywhere would have nothing to worry about then. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 06-05-08 05:57am - 6043 days | #40 | |
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roseman (0)
Suspended  Posts: 29 Registered: Jan 15, '07 Location: Toronto, Canada |
I never join sites that use DRM videos protection and I will never do. '' Velvet Roses In My Way '' | |
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| 06-05-08 11:40am - 6043 days | #41 | |
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
I just found out a few facts about DRM that should be noted. - DRM can be setup to allow the user a permanant license, and/or permanant access to the license. - DRM can be setup to allow more than 1 device - In the case of a computer crash etc... Your license can be restored at any time during the license time for free. Here is a big one - You DO NOT need to be connected to the internet everytime you view a DRM protected video. You only need to be connected to obtain the license. Once you have the license, you can watch it anytime from that computer, connected or not. e.g If your license is for one month, but your access is permanant, you only need to connect once per month to update your license. If I offer a permanant license to paying members, that must be updated once per month, to view all of the videos for as long as they like, on up to 2 computers, and allow that member a way to easily and automatically restore the license anytime for free, would that be more acceptable ? Would you then consider joining a DRM site ? It would almost be like having an unprotected file, except that you couldn't share it with more than two people or devices, and you would simply have to enter your login once per month to obtain your license to view it. Even after you are no longer a member of the site. This would allow me to disable certain users that are abusing the videos, and track how many licenses are issued to each user, but at the same time allow my members to download and view that video for as long as they like. Perhaps DRM has gotten a bad rap because of the way it has been used, or because of the limitations it had in it's early stages. I am not ready to abandon DRM yet. It is still better than completely unprotected files in my eyes. For the record, the majority of my sites and videos do not have DRM and never will. It is too late for those. My newer projects will feature much better quality video in DRM protected formats that will allow as much freedom for the honest user as I can offer them. Edited on Jun 05, 2008, 11:43am | |
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| 06-05-08 12:08pm - 6043 days | #42 | ||
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splatnet (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 18 Registered: Jun 03, '08 Location: Canada |
Hello Monahan. More excellent comments. This has become a great thread.
The primary cost of joe blow porn site is content, but the primary cost of a 'successful' porn site, is promotion and advertising. Then there is content, hosting, billing companies, lawyers, security, programmers, and software developers that all cost $$$. The margins in porn aren't near as good as they used to be.
I am really curious to know, how you know that about Danni.com. Did they tell you that ? | ||
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| 06-06-08 03:29am - 6042 days | #43 | |
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Colm4 (0)
Active User  Posts: 117 Registered: Sep 22, '07 Location: Holland |
I don't think streaming will ever take over. People still want to watch the movies when they are no longer subscribed. Anyway, a few problems I have with DRM: - I can't use my favorite videoplayer - Have to use windows player. - I can't burn these movies to DVD - I burn the best movies I download to a dvd to play on a tv. - I feel uncomfortable by the fact that you need to connect to the Internet to validate - It's a breach of privacy, I feel like I'm treated like a criminal, what if my connection is offline,etc. - Can't watch it after subscription ends, what happens when the site goes down/closes,etc. You know, there is really just a relatively small amount of people who download from torrent sites. Most of these sites (if not all) are illigal in the first place and hard to find. Most people (like me) like the assurance that the video is safe, complete, knowing that the maker gets payed, know what the content is (by preview photos of the movies), etc,etc. I have downloaded movies from Usenet in the past (stopped several years ago) and actually became a member of some of these sites where the movies came from because I liked the content and wanted to see more. Do you actually have your webadress in your movies? It's a bit annoying to see, but if you make it not too big, you may get new members this way. An option I thought of, is using only streaming movies and keep those available for ex-members after they stop their subscription. Only if they re-subscribe they can see the newer movies. Well, I'm no expert in this at all so not sure if this is even possible. Good luck with all your sites and hope you find a solution that works for you. | |
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| 06-06-08 01:47pm - 6042 days | #44 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with this type of DRM but only if I got a permanent license from a one time download. While it sounds like you've been in business for a while I wouldn't want join a DRM site that advertises a permanent useage license only to find out they've closed shop or changed their policy and I can't renew my license to view the material any more. | |
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| 06-07-08 10:37am - 6041 days | #45 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
Excellent idea. Yes, it raises some privacy issues, but it is a great way to deter sharing on public sites. | |
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| 06-07-08 10:44am - 6041 days | #46 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
Exactly what happened to me with the Danni.com site that used DRM on all video content. They "guaranteed" lifetime access to all downloaded videos provided that the member kept all downloads on the same disk. Any move of a file required relicensing, which, in turn, required active membership. So I bought a 320 Gig external and went to work. Everything was accessible at all times while I was a member. They remained accessible when I canceled, but only until the site was sold by Danni. Then DRM set in and I lost all "guaranteed" access to about 200 Gigs of stored stuff. Danni's Customer Service Dept. is nonexistent. Even after several emails to them I got no reply. For that reason alone, if a site uses DRM, they won't get my money. | |
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| 06-08-08 05:57pm - 6040 days | #47 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
Splatnet, here's the thing, though. You may feel that you're being driven to DRM because of un-ethical members of your sites posting your material elsewhere, but the reality is that porn site operators are also competing against other porn site operators that DO allow their members to download all of the material in a way that they can have it to keep after their membership is no longer active. How many people posting here make DRM the dividing line as to whether or not to patronize a porn site? Many. I understand that it's a drag to have to deal with that reality, but as my favorite pop philosophy song goes, "I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden." I'm reminded of when I started seeing a bunch of zip sets posted everywhere of material from a tease model site that I like. I let the webmaster know. His response, "What else is new? Nothing I can do about it." What do they do about it? They keep on finding things to do with the site that will be distinctive and will make people want to join and remain members. That, to me, is the real solution. | |
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| 07-29-08 03:14pm - 5989 days | #48 | |
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jr2375 (0)
Active User Posts: 21 Registered: Jul 23, '08 Location: North America |
Perhaps you should be. Here's my take on DRM. I'm one of those people who would never join a site with DRM. I have no problem paying for sites. I'm not into piracy. I'm not into it from a moral standpoint, and besides, piracy isn't worth the hassle. Browsing sites to find content I like is difficult enough. Browsing torrents, newsgroups, and IRC to find content I like is exponentially more difficult. To make matters worse, it's just like looking for MP3s. Invariably, someone's messed with something or the quality simply isn't there. There is no free lunch. Piracy is a huge waste of time, from my perspective. If there's good content and a nice layout, I'm willing to pay. Some aren't. Obviously, though, there are enough paying customers to justify the sites that do exist. Take a look at basic economics. What is really making sites fail? Is it because there is piracy? Or, is it because, perhaps, there are too many sites, or some are just crappy? Some high quality sites have been around for years, and likely will remain. Some of these have been around since I started on the net a decade ago. They didn't succeed by treating all their customers as potential thieves. I agree with the notion, however, that all customers are potential thieves, but you simply don't treat people like that. Would you patronize a store that patted you down on the way out, every time? | |
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| 01-06-09 06:27am - 5828 days | #49 | |
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ramscrota (0)
Suspended  Posts: 54 Registered: Jul 04, '07 Location: Geelong Vic Australia |
DRM sucks. I've reserved my worst reviews for DRM sites, and if a site won't let me download vids & pics, I don't join;. Simple as that. | |
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| 01-08-09 04:17am - 5826 days | #50 | |
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picdude (0)
Active User Posts: 107 Registered: Dec 26, '08 Location: Italy |
Missed out on this one a bit but for me I sometimes download illegally BECAUSE of DRM and other problems. Even with DRM there are people who can/will get round it and pass it on. In my experiance of DRM in computer games/music after paying good money for I had major problems with it. For the computer games I had problems playing it, for the music I couldn't listen to it on my computer (My pc is my hifi) After learning the hard way I now avoid DRM products as much as possible. For porn sites having fresh regular content will keep the customer coming back and using other means Ie bonuses like interviews with models, blogs, forums etc Will keep me a member for far longer than DRM would ever keep me. | |
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