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| Porn Users Forum » Some big changes at abbywinters.com |
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| 06-01-10 01:22am - 5280 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Some big changes at abbywinters.com big changes at abbywinters.com You may have heard that in June last year the police received a tip that G Media (parent company of abbywinters.com) were producing and selling DVD's in Victoria, that were not rated by the Classification Board. In late December 2009, I was charged by the Police for doing this. The charges against me were dropped, and two charges brought against the Company. On May 28th this year, I went to court, where the magistrate dealt with our case. We have always believed the law to be grey in this area, and the law had not been properly tested in this regard. We could have spent many thousands of dollars in attempting to define the laws but this would have involved additional time and resources that the company could ill-afford, therefore, the Company plead guilty to the two charges. Our QC (defense attorney) made submissions about the nature of our business, that we are reputable, well managed, have excellent systems and protocols in place, and have been operating openly since our inception, 10 years ago. The magistrate accepted all the submissions made to her by our QC. The magistrate fined the company AU$6,000. Because of the way the law could be interpreted in Victoria, the company had no practical option but to proceed the way it did. abbywinters.com cannot continue operating in Victoria any more. The work we have done to date has been identified by the courts, and the company has been penalised, so that appears to be the end of the matter. Laws in the Australian Capital Territory are more clear, but not entirely so. For this reason, we have decided to relocate abbywinters.com to Amsterdam, the Netherlands! We have now stopped all potentially offending shoots in Australia, and expect to be closing our doors in Australia for good in late June. Some of our staff (including Chloe B, Patience and Jacki) are planning to come with us. Australian legislators seem to be becoming more conservative - the internet filtering bill (expected to be passed in early 2011), for example. The changes in legislation, contribute to our decision, but also Europe presents many more opportunities to grow and develop our business, and it represents a huge and interesting challenge for me personally, and our staff. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the staff and models we have worked with over the last 10 years. You have made the site fantastic. Please stay in touch. Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-01-10 01:22am - 5280 days | #2 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Below, a FAQ for some of the questions our members may have. Q: Why are you moving? I'm leaving. A: You might have heard about our recent legal troubles. Restrictive Australian legislators seem like they are becoming more restrictive (for example, it's likely the proposed country-wide internet filter will be passed into law in early 2011), and there are more opportunities in EU. Also, we like a challenge! Q: The site will go to shit. I'm leaving. A: In fact, the site will be just as shit as it is now (which is to say, not at all, of course), or less. Q: The new shooters won't get it. I'm leaving A: We're taking our two longest serving and most awesome shooters Jacki and Patience (excited much?), and two of our video editors, who will work with us on training some new Dutch shooters and editors, with the Creative Director (me). We're also bringing over our management team, and some back-office staff. The style will stay the same. Quality will continue to increase. Q: What about the Australian-ness? I'm leaving. A: We have a variety of nationalities on the site currently, and while we're Australian people, Australia is not the only place in the world with unique, sexy, attractive, passionate, amateur models! Chloe B, who has worked with us for several years as a model and staffer will come with us and continue working on model recruitment and booking. We'll be using similar techniques to get a similar type of models applying, and will use the same criteria for selecting models. There will be a gradual change in the nationalities of models appearing on the site however. The accents will change. But also, like Australia, Europe is a melting pot of nationalities and travellers, and we exepect to significantly increase the variety from shoot to shoot, while holding true to our values. Q: You're selling out. I'm leaving. A: The site will have the same owners, intently focussed on the same goals, vision and mission. Q: You will shoot porn stars. I'm leaving. A: Like we do now, we shoot occasional "porn stars" (or rather, models who have appeared on several other sites), when we feel they express an interest in working with us, and meet the "abbywinters paradigm". While there are more professional models in the EU than in Oz, shooting porn stars is simply not what we're about, and we will resist the temptation. Q: You guys are changing too much lately. I'm leaving. A: We have changed a bit lately - new site design and AfterDark are the big ones - but also many small things are changing behind the scenes. What started as a hobby and a bit of fun has matured into a serious business and aims to be a responsible corporate citizen. That inevitably means more infrastructure and planning, which can lead to a loss of the agility we started with, and becoming set in our ways. We're sensitive to this, and embrace it as challenge. Changing countries will also give us a shakeup, and we plan to embrace that, as well. The core of what we do - finding and shooting intriguing, passionate, delicate, sexy, gorgeous models, and do it ethically, honestly and creatively has not, and will never change. We'll riff on a variety of interpretations (like After Dark), but our core values remain the same. Q: You're abandoning the models you said you "cared for" in AU. I'm leaving. A: We have always, and will continue to, care for all our models, despite the media beat-ups (members interact with real models every day on the boards, and can see how happy they are with the work they have done with us). Models will remain strident voices in all decisions we make in the company (both models-as-staff and models-only), and continue to be involved in decisions we make that affect how we work with models. When our AU models visit Europe, we have an open invitation for them to come visit us, and where possible we'll offer shoots, or just a friendly face in another country. Q: What about site updates? A: We have planned so the site will continue to be updated regularly as normal at all times. There may be some minor hiccups, and we ask for your patience in this. As many members know, we always work to be ahead of schedule, and this buffer will allow us time to relocate, and have the site updates be unaffected. Q: How can I help? Thanks for your offer, we'd love you to help other members on the boards with their concerns, and to tell your friends how awesome AW is! Thanks for being a member, and I hope you choose to stick with us through these changing times. Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-01-10 09:52am - 5280 days | #3 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Man, what is this world coming to? You get arrested for working for AW? Unbelievable!  I'm sorry to hear that you were arrested and the raid last year led to so much legal trouble. I remember when we were talking about it last summer in the forum and on the AW review page comments but I kinda forgot about it for a while, and now... Maybe they went after you because you were doing pretty well--talk about being a victim of your own success! Amsterdam makes the most sense when it comes to making porn, if you could even call AW that since, relatively speaking, your material is pretty soft when compared to what people dream up and release on 'net. I guess the U.S. wasn't the best place either, with tons of competition and a lot of stupid laws to boot. Plus I don't think you would be able to quite so easily find the types of girls you traditionally shot. Here it seems to be either porn star wannabes or girls gone wild delinquents, leaving the true amateur to be somewhat of an enigma in the porn world. Best of luck in your new location and I hope it works out for everyone involved (except prudish lawmakers).  Maybe we really are in a wild west age of the Internet where a relatively free country like Australia gets so serious about cracking down on porn and inevitably the law will reach every corner of the globe. Our recent poll about whether online porn will ever be outlawed makes me think PU'ers might have been a little too optimistic in their responses. Or maybe this is just a fluke from Australian law and they will eventually grow up and understand 'freedom' is not just an empty phrase. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-01-10 10:27am - 5280 days | #4 | |
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Advent (0)
Active Webmaster  Posts: 103 Registered: Aug 13, '09 Location: Tampa, FL |
Sue-Ann I am speechless. I can not believe this is happening to you guys. I hope we can continue to speak on a regular bases. Hey, maybe I will come and see you.  Just let me know if there is anything I can do to help you guys during this transition. Owner Kick Ass Pictures CumEatingCuckolds, FootFetishDaily and Kick Ass Pictures Please feel free to contact me with concerns or comments, I would love to hear from you. | |
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| 06-01-10 11:28am - 5280 days | #5 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
x Edited on Apr 20, 2023, 02:28pm | |
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| 06-01-10 05:53pm - 5280 days | #6 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Thanks Turbo, Advent and Witty, I should clarify the above announcement is from company owner Garion Hall - not me  It was posted late yesterday in our own members forum, I've reproduced it here for the fine members of pornusers to mull over..It's certainly a sad day for myself and most of the staff here who were made redundant - a few will continue their journey but it's not a sad day for the website - it's certainly not shutting down or anything like that, it will continue to grow and be more sexy... I'm here if you need me, if anyone has questions I'll try to answer them as best I can.  Sue-ann - model and affiliate admin for abbywinters.com australia Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-01-10 06:19pm - 5280 days | #7 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
Best of luck with your move, SueAnn. I'm sure the easy thing to do in some ways would have been to ditch the site and start a new one. | |
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| 06-01-10 06:47pm - 5280 days | #8 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
It is a sad state of affair when a reputable business that pays taxes and employs a significant amount of people is forced to leave the Country to avoid likely future legal problems. How many Australian models did Abby hire over the last decade? How many more might have made some money by appearing on the site. Now all those possible revenues will be spent on European models or at least for the most part. Does this mean that Abby will no longer shoot any content in Australia? Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-01-10 07:14pm - 5280 days | #9 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Correct. The entire shooting process will stop here and commence in Europe over the coming months. Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-01-10 07:58pm - 5280 days | #10 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User  Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
I agree. Wasting government money prosecuting porn sites probably isn't the most efficient use of their AUD's! Over here in the States we have out priorities straight -- we dump all our money into saving banks and oil company fuck-ups. | |
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| 06-02-10 07:23am - 5279 days | #11 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Not true, Goldfish. The Bush Administration had the Justice Department create the "Obscenity Prosecution Task Force" back in 2005 to go after those no-good pornographers and their evil, sinful products. Look what happened with Max Hardcore and now Evil Angel. You'd would think after the horror of 9/11 the leaders of the 'greatest country on earth' might have bigger legal priorities than wasting time in the perpetual gray area of defining 'obscenity'. But, yes, we are now diverting our attention to financial institution bailouts and fucking up the environment--in other words, business as usual.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-02-10 11:15am - 5279 days | #12 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I never knew that Australia was so puritanical. What a shame that AW has to move. They were my very first pay site and are indirectly responsible for my being here at PU. Good Heavens, if a so-called enlightened Western Country like Oz can contemplate "internet filters," then I think we best all start holding on to our stash of porn because Canada and the U.S. are sure to follow their example. And I wouldn't even have called AW a porn site. Compared to most they are beautiful but very soft! Get yourself a new government quickly, my beloved Aussies, you are supposed to have a rebellious streak in your genes passed down to you by your unwilling emigre forefathers from England so kick the prudes out!  Edited on Jun 16, 2010, 11:03am | |
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| 06-02-10 11:34am - 5279 days | #13 | |
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BadMrFrosty (0)
Active User Posts: 124 Registered: Mar 05, '10 Location: Prague (Czech Republic) |
I have never been a member of abbywinters.com and probably never will be, not really my cup of tea. Regardless of that I wish you all the best in the move and hope that things go well for you over here in Europe. The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa | |
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| 06-02-10 11:42am - 5279 days | #14 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I hadn't heard about Evil Angel. What happened? | |
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| 06-02-10 12:54pm - 5279 days | #15 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
x Edited on Apr 20, 2023, 02:28pm | |
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| 06-02-10 03:04pm - 5279 days | #16 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
It was a joke TS.  | |
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| 06-02-10 04:05pm - 5279 days | #17 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks, Witty. I am relatively new to DVDs and videos, having been a picture guy most of my life, so I didn't associate Stagliano with Evil Angel. If you feel like it could you refresh my memory what the reason for the charge was? Did he shoot in the wrong State as well? Or was he too excessive like Max? | |
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| 06-02-10 06:44pm - 5279 days | #18 | |
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kkman112 (0)
Active User Posts: 56 Registered: Mar 31, '07 Location: United States |
Wow. I like AbbyWinters.com, so I wish you guys the best in the EU. I hear the Netherlands are very nice and very liberal when it comes to sex/porn/prostitution/etc. | |
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| 06-02-10 07:12pm - 5279 days | #19 | |
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williamj (0)
Active User Posts: 102 Registered: Sep 29, '07 Location: usa |
I'll look for you. good luck. Will | |
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| 06-03-10 12:04am - 5278 days | #20 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Thanks for everyone's support! We'll be fine! Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-04-10 01:06am - 5277 days | #21 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Yeah, I know, but your second statement, "we dump all our money into saving banks and oil company fuck-ups," was actually, sadly, very true.  Oh, the good ol' days, when we were only trying to stop the enormous flood of porn. Fortunately they never figured out how to stop that gusher either.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove Edited on Jun 07, 2010, 02:14pm | |
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| 06-04-10 06:16am - 5277 days | #22 | |
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james4096 (0)
Suspended Posts: 132 Registered: Mar 02, '09 |
What's the matter with Australia? I think like me, most americans would have guessed that oz was a really free and forward thinking place. I was surprised when I first heard about this. Good luck though SueAnn. | |
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| 06-05-10 01:37pm - 5276 days | #23 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I wish AbbyWinters.com all the best with their move to Europe (even though technically you are competition!). With the law changes over the past few years, which seem to have been getting more anti-porn, in places I would never have predicted, I just hope that Europe remains a sensible centre of freedom. Maybe now you will be able to receive my e-mails. I've sent a few (some were even replies to yours quite recently) but have never received a reply. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 06-06-10 05:55pm - 5275 days | #24 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Thanks for the well wishes! We're working on making the move as smooth as possible. Emails: now there's a problem- where are you sending them? What email are you trying? feel free to contact me here: sue-ann@abbywinters.com ...and I'll pass your messages on if you like! Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-07-10 06:41am - 5274 days | #25 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
Thanks SueAnn. I've sent you an e-mail. I have a suspicion that you won't get it, but fingers crossed! Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 06-09-10 07:55pm - 5272 days | #26 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Hi Ed - you're right - I have not received any mail from you. Perhaps send from another email account? oxoxo. Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-11-10 05:25am - 5270 days | #27 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I've already tried that in the past, but I'll try again. It's from a Hotmail account this time. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 06-11-10 09:35am - 5270 days | #28 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
The biggest change I would look forward to would be to see all three of the sites combined once again. AW was my very first pay site, as well as my very first review for which I got a non-confidence vote because I was so enthused about it that someone must have thought I was shilling for the site! Still wish that someone (and you know who you are) would remove that single stain on my otherwise unblemished record.  | |
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| 06-15-10 08:44pm - 5266 days | #29 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
Hi again Ed, just confirming with you I have not received any mail yet. My icq is 414143754 if that helps? Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-15-10 08:46pm - 5266 days | #30 | |
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SueAnn (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 13 Registered: May 06, '09 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
I'm not sure if that's ever going to happen- can't hurt to ask though right? Raw. Passionate. Unscripted. abbywinters.com | |
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| 06-16-10 10:55am - 5265 days | #31 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Right!  But I am honestly surprised that the new model survived because I was convinced that you would have to go back to a combined site within a year. Well, all I can say is, I was wrong and still wish you the best because you are a class site (class sites). | |
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| 07-13-10 04:17pm - 5238 days | #32 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
This article is a few weeks old, but I think it gives a pretty good picture of what all is going on with AW, the big move and some of the behind the scenes. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 07-14-10 05:51pm - 5237 days | #33 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Interesting link. Thanks, RB. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 07-15-10 06:31am - 5236 days | #34 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Man, I'm confused here. The article posted by RB has some strange aspects: Models who already have been paid (guess they were paid) want their material removed? Somebody got a bottom line here? "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" | |
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| 07-15-10 01:49pm - 5236 days | #35 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
I guess it depends on which side of the argument you believe. Garion Hall says that there is a process models can take to have their content removed, but that they also sign a contract stating that AW owns the rights to all content in perpetuity. But it also seems that some of the models are saying they're not honoring that removal system. Hopefully someone will catch a later article on this whole mess and give us an update. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 05-27-12 03:27pm - 4554 days | #36 | |
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TeenYum (0)
Active User  Posts: 11 Registered: May 26, '12 |
I'm brand new here - this is my first post. I'm reactivating an old thread on Abby Winters just to see if there are any 'Abbyphiles' here. | |
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| 05-30-12 04:34am - 4551 days | #37 | |
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Rudigar (0)
Active User Posts: 13 Registered: Apr 03, '11 Location: Sydney |
Used to be. The site actually started going down hill long before the move; girls not as atractive unimaginitive shooting now days it's just another web site full of euro girls. Damn shame the plug got pulled though, as an Australian I believe we have some of the most beautiful women in the world. As a Sydneysider I can assure you they can be some of the bey-atchiest in the world to! | |
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| 05-30-12 07:15am - 4551 days | #38 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Over the years this site has gone from a top pick in my book to Abby Winter who ? Since 2007 | |
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| 05-30-12 09:19am - 4551 days | #39 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I've never joined because as much as I like the idea of natural looking girls. I've always thought that their content was too softcore for my taste. The fact that they had to move out of Australia was an omen that you would start to see less and less Australian girls because the cost of traveling is way too high to make the trip to Abby's new location worh it for most Aussie girls. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 05-31-12 03:53pm - 4550 days | #40 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
This whole undertaking is indeed a sad state of affairs. This reminds me of an era here when my taxes was paying undercover people to scope out wankers in darken adult movie theaters and have them arrested. Hell, man , it was so dark in those smut-dens that one couldn't even see their own hands, for crying out loud! The proven site quality and track record of Abby Winters will, undoubtably, sucessfully carry it to better havens. So, whatever, or whereever, they'll land on their feet. If Abby Winters should , sadly, move their act to another region..... I certainly hope (smile) they continue to incorporate that incomparabley delightfully Aussie dialect. | |
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| 05-31-12 05:42pm - 4550 days | #41 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^Are you talking about them moving out of Europe because they left Australia a year or two ago. The laws were so bad it was either that or face some serious problems. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 05-31-12 06:46pm - 4550 days | #42 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
I guess I misinterpred the story..... I took it to mean Australia was the place that was giving the site all this grief. Either/or ..... Judging from what posts I've scanned already, I still agree Abby Winters are being somewhat dragged over the coals, as far as the laws in question are concerned. Appreciate you bringing this to my attention, Pat. | |
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| 06-01-12 06:15am - 4549 days | #43 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^Let's just say that Australia is not necessaarily a great place to shoot porn of any kind at the moment and I don't know if this will change anytime soon. I believ there are some ubber Religious groups in control of the Government and porn is tatamount to the most vile thing in the world. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-01-12 04:30pm - 4549 days | #44 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Gives new meaning to "kangaroo justice." | |
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| 06-01-12 06:27pm - 4549 days | #45 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Hear Skippy. Cricky put another shrimp on the barbie. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-01-12 06:38pm - 4549 days | #46 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Darn, and here I was ready to emigrate to Australia. I'll stay right here in Canada now. So there! | |
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| 06-01-12 08:29pm - 4549 days | #47 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Where you been, partner? (messmer) Your recent unexpected, sort'a long absence, kind'a put a scare in this old codger. Wasn't it you who said we PU elders need to stick together. Your reputation is gold around this here parts, young man. Let us know before you again go AWOL, you heah! | |
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| 06-01-12 10:38pm - 4548 days | #48 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
LOL so what makes a PU elder per-say  ??? Since 2007 | |
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| 06-02-12 12:44am - 4548 days | #49 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Well, nipping at the heels of 80 is one thing. And, as I get uncomfortably close to that number come Oct....... I believe messmer might be the only one who trails that's even close. (Anybody else out there who's that old?) | |
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| 06-02-12 01:38am - 4548 days | #50 | |
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elephant (0)
Active User  Posts: 583 Registered: Jan 11, '07 |
Yeah I do always find this so strange that these people get so shocked and outraged at a natural human pursuit as sex and the naked human form in general yet films of violence and some of the sickest horrible acts of evil seems to be more accepted in society, like which is worse a film of a cannibal or killing people with a chainsaw or watching a girl and a guy have sex on a couch, some of these people think the latter. Very strange. "Women are like tricks by sleight of hand, Which, to admire, we should not understand." WILLIAM CONGREVE | |
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