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| Porn Users Forum » Loyalty Bonuses - A Good Thing or a Rip-off? |
| 1-23 of 23 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 11-01-08 10:28am - 5895 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
Loyalty Bonuses - A Good Thing or a Rip-off? Denner & I were having some back-and-forth over the fact that Pix & Video and Club Sandy were now adding each other to their Loyalty Bonus program. Is this a good thing or a rip-off? To me, it's a good thing, because I have enjoyed the results of 21st Sextury's Loyalty Bonus program. Denner's complaint was the false/misleading advertising in the 30+ Sites banner at the bottom of the Pix & Video home-page. I think this complaint of Denner's is very much to-the-point and that 21st Sextury could do themselves quite a bit of good in being clear as to which sites you will get immediate access to when you join and which sites are loyalty bonus sites and at what rate they will be added and in what order. They do make this more clear at some of their related sites, such as MandyIsKinky.com. But I couldn't figure out for sure at Pix & Video. They do have a new feature where you can search by updates at all of the sites in the network - and looking that way I was able to count 18 sites that are categorized as Instant Access sites. But I would have to contact their Customer Service Dept once again to be sure that I knew what the real deal is at the moment - and even though their Customer Service Dept was quite responsive - 12 minutes was the response time to the question that I asked - the site ought to be clear. I did have one Loyalty Program that I felt was a rip-off years ago at Masuimi Max's site, IAmTrouble.com. At a certain point, she e-mailed her members that if you were a member for 100 days, you could get a special continuing membership deal. I was a new member at that point and thought, "Cool, I'll definitely stick around for that!" Well, when I reached the point that I was eligible for that Loyalty Discount, there was nothing on the site that mentioned it and I e-mailed Masuimi and got a really pissy response about "Oh, we don't have that anymore. You guys think that we can offer those deals forever" - blah-blah-blah. Given the attitude and the rip-off of waving a deal that was taken away before I had earned it, I was done with her site permanently. And I think that's what people worry about with these long-term Loyalty Programs - sure it's there today, but if I have to be a member for 9 months to get it, is it still even going to be there in 9 months? Other thoughts? | |
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| 11-01-08 11:56am - 5895 days | #2 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Good point, will they be there in 9 months. Personally I think better discounts can be found just by using tbp/pu as the discounts are often great. I understand customer loyalty , I for one give my hard earned cash to sites that earn it. Like we have all heard talk and advertising is cheap, lets see some action here and I am there. Bottom line is I try and look for the best deal on a site I join. I hate paying 29.95 when I could have got it for 14.95 and thats happened. TBP is a great resource I think better then any loyalty programs. Since 2007 | |
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| 11-01-08 07:19pm - 5895 days | #3 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
To me it depends on the kind of "loyalty" system it is. One type is the add-a-site (or sites) program, such as PixAndVideo and Club Sandy (and I think some other 21st Sextury sites). You stay on for the same rate -- $30 with them -- and you can add a site (or is it two?) each month. Another type is the reduced membership fee each month. European Glamour Girls does that, but the monthly reduction is really small: 60 cents per month, the cost of one small cup of rot-gut coffee from a local food truck. The third type might be called the "up-front" discount: Stay for a year and you pay, say, $99 for the whole shebang. That comes to $8.25 per month, which is what MetArt does. But, of course, most other sites charge more than that. Still, this last type I do like, in part because it's just simpler. I do enough "managing" of things pornographic as it is! I'm not motivated to count the days until I can join another site, go through the stress of hoping I pick one that I'll actually like once I'm in, and continue paying premium price month-to-month on top of it. Or can I even choose the site? Pat (below) says that they choose it for you. Well, that's no good at all! It's like having a parental figure saying, "Now take your piano classes. And your 'Extreme Interracial DP Creampies.'" And of course, I'm not inclined to toss a few coins into a jar for additional cups of kidney-killer in a styrofoam cup, all based on the phases of the moon. But there is a risk even with type 3. A good example is TorridArt, which used to update three times a week with parts 1 and 2 of a shoot and part one of the next. So it was three shoots every two weeks. That's when I bought in at $90 for a year. Then they went down to two updates per week. And now they're doing this bullshit BTS sometimes and just ONE half a shoot per week. Makes we wish I'd stayed away and then signed up for their short-term trial, which didn't exist when I put my loyalty forward. I could have just raided and quit. What TorridArt has done is a good example of how those who mislead others wind up misleading themselves. They're rewarding the "raiders" at the same time they're screwing their more loyal subscribers. If they think that's going to serve their own interests, long-term at least, they're mistaken. Oh, I've realized that there is a fourth type, though it's more ad hoc and not a loyalty program per se: the loyality discount offer you get when you are in the mist of cancelling. I've gotten some OK deals that way, though they're not as cheap as they used to be. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. Edited on Nov 01, 2008, 07:55pm | |
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| 11-01-08 07:34pm - 5895 days | #4 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Although I like the idea behind a loyalty reward system. You should know ahead of time what you are going to get for your money and how long it's going to take you to get it. The reward program offered by 21Sexcentury is maybe one of the best. It's biggest faults are that you do not know which site you are getting except the one you are joining. It's only once you've joined their network that they then give you a list of the other sites and the number of days left before they become available at no cost. I joined their network twice and both times the package of sites was diffferent. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 11-01-08 10:40pm - 5894 days | #5 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
I'm of the opinion that loyalty bonuses don't do much for me, even using the discount formula that Drooler talks about. Usually, I would not be interested in all of the bonus sites to the point where I would actually save money by remaining a member versus picking and choosing the sites I was interested in and joining separately. It also sort of goes against my code of not spending a ton of money on porn. Obviously some people have different attitudes on this but overall it seems to me that I could spend my money on better things than shelling out big $$ for some bonus material down the road. This train of thought also coincides with my idea that I would rather visit a bunch of sites and come back to the ones I like since most sites don't update enough for me to justify sticking around for more than a month. Lastly, I'm also of the opinion that unless you're dealing with a well established site(s) like 21stsextury that you run the risk of being shorted in the end. | |
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| 11-02-08 05:11pm - 5894 days | #6 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
This is the weirdest type of loyalty program, since it's actually a dis-loyalty program. If you stay, you pay the premium price, but if you're going to leave, then you get a better offer. Mystique.com used to be the worst at this where they would trot out some offer at an extraordinarily high price - one that I would not even consider - and then start working it down month after month until the price they offered was a good deal - but their book-keeping was either really really shoddy or they were just this side of thieves, because you would bite on a one-time-only price and then have to hold onto your e-mail because they're be charging you renewal charges that you would have to e-mail their nasty "Customer Service" people about to get them reversed. As to the "who picks the sites at 21st Sextury's network" - Would you really expect them to have members pick the order of the bonuses? That'd be ideal from a customer's perspective, but I've never seen any company of any type structure such deals in a customers-decide fashion. | |
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| 11-04-08 10:10am - 5892 days | #7 | |
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Jeffrey99 (0)
Active User  Posts: 106 Registered: Nov 04, '08 Location: Good Ole Midwest USA |
Playboy has that. If you stay a member of one of their sites for 3 months, then you can add additional site of your choice free of charge. Every 3 months you can add another site. | |
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| 11-04-08 11:50am - 5892 days | #8 | ||
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
Well put. Even disloyality may have its rewards. ;)
I haven't either, but as you say, it would be "ideal from a customer's perspective." However, I would change "ideal" to just "normal." After all, if I choose one of their sites to begin with, why wouldn't I be able to choose the next? So yes, I would really ... make that do really expect it from the customer's perspective. Hey, if I'm paying, I'm doing the choosing, not them. You're right that they probably won't ever let the members choose their own bonus sites. But to me, it's like buying anything else. Imagine the people running 21st Sextury going into an auto store. When asked which options they'd like, imagine them answering, "I dunno know ... Surprise me." They've never gotten me to sign up for their loyality discounts with their approach anyway. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | ||
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| 11-04-08 12:03pm - 5892 days | #9 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
That reminds me of another, but it was even better. DDF Productions offered a 2008 New Year's "gift" of a free month's access to another site, of one's own choosing, when you joined. So the essential point is that things can be set up to allow the user to choose the sites. 21st Sextury could do that, if only they were willing. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 11-04-08 12:24pm - 5892 days | #10 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User  Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Much as already been covered , so I'll simply say that I personally love the $35 first month - $8 all months after system - they get their money from the "hit-and-run" crowd and those of us in it for the long haul don't have to ruin our wallets. I suppose the $100 upfront systems work this way in a more commitment heavy style. Most of the other loyalty systems end up being a nuisance, in my opinion. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo Edited on Nov 04, 2008, 11:20pm (Toadsith: Grammar... as always.) | |
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| 11-04-08 06:41pm - 5892 days | #11 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I remember that offer because I joined Hands on Hardcore and got 1 by Day included with my membership. I learned of it through PU. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 11-04-08 06:55pm - 5892 days | #12 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I've never seen a website or network that had an offer similar to the one you refer to. Although the 8$ for the subsequent month is amazing. You still wind up paying a total of 123$ for year membership. I've never seen a website that updated often enough to justify sticking with it long term. I think it's cheaper to join twice a year and download eveything that has been added since the last time. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 11-04-08 11:19pm - 5891 days | #13 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
I will grant you it is quite uncommon, but I've run across it a few times over the years now. Most recently with a site I'm a current member of and really ought to do a review of one of these days: Slipshine As for the debate of staying vs. bi-annual hit-and-runs? On sites that consistently add content I like I find I enjoy perusing them on a regular basis, just like when the latest edition of a favorite magazine arrives. You know approximately what will be between the covers, but you are just as eager every month. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 11-05-08 08:10pm - 5891 days | #14 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I wish sometime that I'd stick around for longer than one month, but rarely have I found a site that updated often enough to justify sticking with it beyond the first month. There are a couple of sites that are just too good to wait six months, so those I will normally join every 3 months. I should do the math on whether staying a member long term is more economical than hit and runs every 3 months. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 11-05-08 08:43pm - 5890 days | #15 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Most of the time I think hit-and-run (even at once every 3 months) will be more economical unless you are willing to invest heavily with the 1 year memberships. I was a member of Suicide Girls and MET-Art for about 3 continuous years that way. You can end up with effectively only 10 or 15 dollar monthly fees for your favorite sites, but it is hard to let go of a 3 digit figure for porn (despite my annual spending being solidly a 4 digit figure). Anyway, that is why I like the 1 month high, following months low deal because I can stay with a site for 3 or 4 months without much stress - knowing I can quit at any time without money lost. If you have a 1 year membership and the site starts moving away from content you like all you can do is email the webmasters and come here and jump up and down. Oh, everything has its pluses and minuses... At least Obama is the next American president - w00t!! "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 11-06-08 08:13am - 5890 days | #16 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
First I like the "hit and run" thing mentioned by Toadsith. The reason is obvious: Join a site, pay and rip what they got - and then cancel. Is that not the meaning of it all - EXCEPT for some very fine sites, maybe. I started this thing - together with Pink Panther, by all means - and and still think it's importend from the users point of view. It's NOT a matter of: "Ask not what your website can do for you, but what you can do for your website" We're paying costumers! BTW: Got this reply from the webmaster at 21Sextury where he - damon21 - states that all will get access to 30+ sites with one subscription - well, that was certainly NOT the case when I first joined this socalled deal - ok, I do not remember the exact amount, but it was more likely 20 or less and NOT a matter of choise - I could not even choose the next site after the two or more months "Loyalty". The reply is here: https://www.pornusers.com/replies_add.htm...43&replyid=26428 But damon21 goes beyond that by stating that this is a deal for many PUs, except this user. Pretty heavy statement in the fall of 2008.... BTW: Congrat with your new Pres. Europeans are very exited to see whats comming..... "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" Edited on Nov 06, 2008, 08:16am | |
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| 11-06-08 10:34am - 5890 days | #17 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
You are right that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the "hit-and-run" tactic, perhaps I should come up with a different saying because that one has such a negative connotation already tied to it. Loyalty bonuses are simply there to get more money from the customer - and my stance is that I'd rather them offer me a discount for staying than holding back content from me as a sort of black-mail. In regards to 21 Sextury, I'm not sure where damon21 is getting that info - according to DP Overload (I always want to read that as DP Overlord, which would be a very different site I suspect) when you join you get instant access to 20 sites and get access to an additional 2 sites every month. It is unfortunate though, because back when I was a member, last January - you would get access to 33 sites at first, with 2 more sites added each month. Still, I prefer they split the network up a bit and then provide "loyal" members large discounts on their monthly rate instead of this held for ransom type method. Granted I'd prefer they simply provide access to all 50 odd sites and provide the discount, but I'd understand if they wanted a better money to site ratio. Anyway, thanks about the Prez - I'm quite hopeful about the next 4 years now :-) And on a totally off topic, my brother and his wife are going to be visiting your fine country over our Thanksgiving holiday weekend as a birthday present to her. His wife's birthday often lands on Thanksgiving, I always feel bad for people who's birthday lands near a national holiday as it makes celebrations of both awkward. Anyway, no idea where you are located in Denmark, but if you have any must visit suggestions local to Copenhagen that tourists wouldn't never normally find out about, they'd be much appreciated :-) They are always hunting for non-touristy cool things to do; I think their choice was largely inspired by the Three Sheets episode on Denmark (a fun tv show about drink culture if you haven't run across it). Should be cool - I wish I could visit more of the friendly nations across the pond, but man that blasted airfare, lol "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 11-06-08 01:38pm - 5890 days | #18 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Off Topic: Well, your brother and sister-in-law have to look forward to a bit of a chilly period here in Scandinavia - about 5-8 degrees Celsius. But anyway Copenhagen is normally a peacefull and very safe place to visit: 1) They should take a stroll down Stroget - a great non-car street between Kongens Nytorv (The King Square) and Radhuspladsen (Town Hall Square) 2) They should visit Graabrodre Torv - a small a peacefull square with cosy bars and restaurants - and close to The Kings Castle "Amalienborg" down by the harbour. 3)Christiania - a very speciel "free community" where people since 1972 has lived for free with free hash and things like that - it's quite safe in the daytime 4) There are some great lunch-restaurants with exellent danish "smorebrod" where it's easy to get "a little drunk" from beer and snaps - they have to try it: These are the best: Tivolihallen Told og Snaps Cafe Petersborg (They all have web-sites) 5) When in Copenhagen they should take the train (fine ride along the coast) to the town of Helsingore (approx 1 hour) and visit Hamlets castle "Kronborg" and of course the old town here - also with good restaurants. 6) A place called Nyhavn - by the harbour is very popular with great walks along the harbour and some fine bars and restaurants. I'll get back when/if new ideas come up. Good luck to your familys visit. And tell them, most danes speak fine english...they will not have problems on that subject. "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" | |
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| 11-06-08 01:49pm - 5890 days | #19 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Thanks for all the recommendations! I'll send it over to them :-) Ironically, it sounds like it will still be warmer there than in Central New York, so I doubt they'll even notice it being a little chilly. That is cool about the language thing, I honestly just assumed you had some occupation that required excellent English - I always forget that most Europeans speak at least a bit of multiple languages. I generally don't worry about it as my brother is an experienced traveler and is quite proficient in both French and German. Amusingly, he apparently speaks German with a strange mix of French and American accents; it confuses the hell out of most Germans - they described his accent as just ambiguously foreign. Of course that was back when he was living in Germany, his German is probably a good bit rustier now. Anyway, thanks again :-D "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 11-06-08 06:04pm - 5890 days | #20 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Still Off Topic: Visiting Copenhagen Just got a reply back from my brother, he wanted many thanks sent along, saying the suggestions were quite helpful and appreciated. He apparently is quite interested in Christiania and is glad to hear that is interest is not misplaced :-) Thanks! "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 11-06-08 07:20pm - 5890 days | #21 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Interesting what damon21 wrote because I joined Lez Cuties in October and I got access to 30 sites with that one membership. I didn't get to choose any of them, so I can't say if they are always the same or if they are randomly generated. I joined Porn Pass for All earlier this year and it was the same thing. The only thing I'm willing to give 21Sextury is that once you are a member then you know exactly which site will become available and how long you will have to remain to get them. I'm going to join DP Fanatics very soon so I'll be able to tell you which site come with that membership. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 11-07-08 11:44pm - 5888 days | #22 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
Here's the thing about the 21st Sextury Loyalty Program - you can't compare the Loyalty Program that you got from one site with the one that you're going to get from another site and say, "Hey, they're lying that you're going to get 30 on that site." Their Loyalty Program varies from site to site - it's another part of the frustrating "read-the-fine-print-before-you-join" aspects of the thing. They have also made changes in the program - this bit of adding Club Sandy is a big change, but they have also changed the number of sites that you get immediate access to on particular sites, so again, you can't say, "Hey, that's not what I got 6 months ago - they're lying." They're not lying, they're changing the program. And since they're changing the program to be more generous and not less, I think it's a good thing - whether it works with any individual is for them to decide. As I said when I posted about it the first time - for the "join for only 1 month" people, it's not any deal at all. | |
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| 11-09-08 04:21pm - 5887 days | #23 | |
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malikstarks (0)
Active User Posts: 108 Registered: Nov 19, '07 Location: Florida |
Overall I think they are great, an essential part of the free market system that is based on competition for my hard earned dollar. I there two sites that I have right now that I wouldn't be a member of if not for the drastic cut in price from the loyalty discount The first is Brazzers who offered me $9.99 a month to stay. I actually don't download much from there, but they have way too much content for me to pass up for that price, same thing goes for All Reality Pass Plus. The main reason to take advantage of these is that you never know when they will pull the deal. This happened to me with facial abuse which I had for $12.72 (loyalty discount)for over a year until I cancelled. When I came back that discount was gone, not only that but they now offer a number of bonus sites that weren't there when I cancelled. Every time I think of that site I regret it because of that. Luckily they have added a discount through TBP for $19.99 | |
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