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| 08-12-15 02:07pm - 3420 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended  Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
Hot Girls Wanted This is a documentary available on Netflix. Has anyone seen it? It was about newbies just entering porn in Miami. | |
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| 08-12-15 08:29pm - 3419 days | #2 | |
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Pyrenees (0)
Active User  Posts: 153 Registered: Feb 25, '15 Location: USA |
Oh I have seen it. It stars Ava Taylor. (I accidentally said Ava Vincent once, but on a side note I liked her too). Basically it shows one side of the industry. It has some legitimate point. For example there are TERRIBLE producers to work for. Like Face Fucking. Face Fucking (Formerly Facial Abuse) is for pornstars who cannot get good paying work anymore (They only pay 300 for a shoot), below average looking sexually frisky ladies and women who are really messed up. This is actually one of my favorite sites. But it is extreme. One thing I will hand to them they make 100% sure the women know what will happen during a shoot. They document everything on tape. The reason I bring up Face Fucking is because people think Ava Taylor is talking about Face Fucking being the site that helped her decide to quit porn. She claims she was told it was going to be a simple blow job and it got way rougher and she was paid so poorly for it. If you want the scene it is actually the Fetish Network she is talking about. The site is called Brutal Castings but that is NOT what they tell their models. I am opposed to lying to performers and intentionally underpaying them. In a nut shell yes it is hard to make it in the porn industry. I feel like Ava Taylor had a niche appeal that she could have milked a while longer. To be frank she should have made a solo site like Brandy Belle did. If you make a solo site the correct way it can be far more lucrative than other options and it can prolong your career greatly. Add stripping gigs to this and sessions at the bunny house for your fans and you can make a TON of cheddar. It is far easier to pay a girl less than the usual 3,000 because they want to make it. Then after a year usually they have made 50 ish scenes and we never see them again (RIP Peaches and Briana Blaze). Girls just have to market themselves better and hold out for the better paying jobs and never work for the lower tier producers. Yes, I know easier said than done. Like I said the documentary had its good points. But it also totally glossed over the good sides of the porn industry. The STD Safety, the tight nit community, the ability to make 100k having sex which some people would love. I mean in the video you can see her living with people who care about her, for her and look out for her best interests. I hope for her sake she really is done because there are some producers who would really love to give her some payback (JM Productions would probably handle her like they did Tanner Mayes). Just like any job it is what you make of it and you create your own opportunities. These are my thoughts on that documentary. 1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; | |
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| 08-12-15 09:17pm - 3419 days | #3 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
I watched a bit of it - it's pretty much one of those "Porn will ruin your life and you'll wish you never left your suburban home" pieces that could have been a week of Dr Phil episodes. | |
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| 08-13-15 08:30am - 3419 days | #4 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I am glad that you cleared up any confusion regarding Face Fucking. One of the models mentioned that Face Fucking as being intense and then it was not clear that the topic had been changed to Brutal Castings. You mention the usual rate as more like $3000. In the documentary it mentions $1000 as the high end of the going rate, which matches what I have heard from several others on PU. I don't really care, so please don't misunderstand me. What did JM Productions do regarding Tanner Mays? Please tell me more. | |
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| 08-13-15 08:57am - 3419 days | #5 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I noticed that the documentary gave the models many opportunities to talk about themselves, their expectations and experiences. They often showed how naive, unrealistic and immature they were. I can't expect much maturity from an 18 to 20 year old and I did not see much here. In the beginning of the documentary it was mentioned that most porn models become known at home about three months into their career. It says that this ALWAYS happens. Despite this, I hear several times how happy they were that their videos were seen all over the world. So they want to be both anonymous and famous at the same time. One thing they said over and over was that they wanted to be stars and make a career in porn. However most left disappointed after only six months in the industry. Cute goes only so far in porn. Successful pornstars either truly love sex or can act. Porn is fantasy. Another complaint was that their role was to get the guys off. My advice would be to watch a few pornos to see what goes on. This advice should not be a surprise. As an aside, I think most would have preferred a more heartcore site over a traditional hardcore one. Another point was that they complained that the constant sex was wearing them down. I understand their point of view. However, they have one of two choices and neither is the choice of complaining. They could turn down a role if they are physically not up to it or fear it may be too rough. Nobody is pointing a gun at them. The other choice is to realize that the industry is not for them and leave. After complaining that they were getting worn out, the complaint was that as they did more porn, they got fewer and fewer offers. So they were working both too much and too little. The offers that they got later were to do more scenes that were niche, rather than barely legal newby ones. There is a never ending supply of new models, so the competition makes for adding more to your repertoire than plain vanilla sucking then vaginal. My advice is to decide what your limits are and then stick to them. I can see the pressure to do anal for example. That can prolong your career, but other wise you have to seriously think over your career choice. I don't want to come across as judgmental, but that is my takeaway from the documentary. | |
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| 08-13-15 12:27pm - 3419 days | #6 | |
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Pyrenees (0)
Active User Posts: 153 Registered: Feb 25, '15 Location: USA |
To answer your first question. JM Productions is very verbally abusive and somewhat physically demanding. Tanner Mayes stormed off the set one day. To be frank she showed up high. She was about 5 hours late with 20 people waiting on her to do 8 hours of work (Surprise porn is work). She keeps making phone calls (What job allows this?) and the people know she is planning on bailing soon. Very unprofessional behavior. Then she drops her phone in the toilet on one of her hundred trips to the bathroom and people laugh. This sets her off and she goes on a tirade that includes braking a innocent persons laptop. She then drives off in a taxi. You can see this whole fiasco on "Porn's most outrageous outtakes" a behind the scenes look at JM Productions most crazy and brutal mishaps. So like any down on her luck pornstar she comes crawling back eventually at which point they pay her to do a blowbang but they are brutal with her. It is worth a download. Second point about pornstar pay. Some get paid 3k, some even get points on dvd sales or website sales. But yes for new ameature talent it can be as low as 500-1000. But would you fly across America for 500? I will talk a little about something that really is true about the documentary. The porn industry does use fresh new faces then discard them after 6 months to 3 years. The girl has to have real talent and tons of fans to make it past that mark. But it is also FAR more profitable to pay a fresh new face much less money. So on that point the movie was accurate. Maybe this is simply good business. It is fair to point it out that porn does go through a lot of girls every six months. Personally I feel like out of ALL the new pornstars Ava Taylor has no right to ever complain. She was working with mostly Heartcore and Couples studios. Even the sex she was doing for the gonzo companies was very vanilla. The only one to blame for her exit from the industry as a failure is herself. Out of all the flavors why did she have to pick salt? 1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; | |
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| 08-15-15 04:05am - 3417 days | #7 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
Where can I find the download of Tanner Mays that you mentioned? | |
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| 08-15-15 08:53am - 3417 days | #8 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
100% what PinkPanther said. I stuck with it to the end thinking that it might get better but it didn't. If you really want to watch it, save it for a time when you can't do anything else. Like when you're in bed with the flu. If you're miserable already then this movie can't make it any worse. And to top it off my wife questioned what the hell I was doing watching something like that. I watch a lot of documentaries but having been scolded for watching this steaming pile added insult to injury. | |
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| 08-16-15 09:21am - 3416 days | #9 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I joined Brutal Castings and have seen Ava Taylor's scene that she complained about. She does not seem to be enjoying it I must admit. However by porn standards it is not all that extreme and not even remotely so compared with Facial Abuse/ Facial Fucking. If she is saying that she was surprised at the scene being rough and not heartcore, what did she expect from a site that is called Brutal Castings? | |
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| 08-16-15 10:53am - 3416 days | #10 | |
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Pyrenees (0)
Active User Posts: 153 Registered: Feb 25, '15 Location: USA |
Well that's the whole point. They lied to her. They offered her $500 for a BJ only scene. Then the BJ turned out rough and then there was rough sex. I agree this is tamer than most. But she was a exclusive heartcore girl. So I totally give her credit on this point. It was wrong for them to lie to her then take advantage of her. Total scumbag operation. 1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; | |
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| 08-16-15 12:53pm - 3416 days | #11 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I definitely agree that lying about the job as well as underpaying her is unethical business behavior. Let me pose two possible hypothetical conversations. Number One. Her agent: I got you a job. The pay is $500 for a blow job scene. Porn model: Oh, great, when do I do it? Number Two. Her agent: I got you a job. The pay is $500 for a blow job scene. Porn model: What website is it for? Agent: Brutal Castings. Porn model: I never heard of that one. "Brutal", huh? That sounds like it is not my style. Why only $500? I did not start in porn last week. I have done x many scenes so far, I have x many followers on my twitter account and want more. I have never worked for that little. Agent: I tried, that is all they will pay. Porn model: Can I see a video they already have shot for Brutal Castings? I want to know what to expect. Then they either a) show her a scene and she realizes it is not for her or b) they refuse to let her see one and she therefore realizes they are not people she wants to deal with. Which one more closely resembles what happened? | |
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| 08-16-15 03:33pm - 3416 days | #12 | |
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Pyrenees (0)
Active User Posts: 153 Registered: Feb 25, '15 Location: USA |
But Mbaya they do not advertise as Brutal Castings to the model. That is how they tricked her. She is pretty much Heartcore only. Knowing her she would never have accepted a job from these scumbags. I am a fan of hers would like to see her return. Like I said before this one on of her only points in the documentary I agree with. 1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; | |
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| 08-18-15 12:33am - 3414 days | #13 | |
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exotics4me (0)
Active User  Posts: 664 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: USA |
The hissy fit is on youtube. Just search, "Tanner Mayes Meltdown". And if it's the scene I'm thinking of it's on the DVD "Gag Factor 28", the site is Jerkoff Zone. Pretty sure they're streaming only still. My first time I jacked off, I thought I'd invented it. I looked down at my sloppy handful of junk and thought, This is going to make me rich. - Chuck Palahniuk | |
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| 06-13-17 06:42am - 2749 days | #14 | |
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iknowwazzup (0)
Active User  Posts: 132 Registered: Jan 06, '16 Location: United States |
I watched it and I know that a lot adult industry people as well as fourth wave feminists found it one sided, but personally, I didn't have much problem believing it's a fairly accurate portrayal of what happens for a lot of pornstar wannabes. Yes, you have your success stories, but there are lots of young women who try porn out and decide it isn't for them. After all, how many individual model sites feature performers who retire without ever doing more than a bit of softcore posing and maybe some masturbation? And really how does that make it different from any other career in the entertainment business. We've all heard of the Hollywood casting couch and the same sort of thing happens in the music industry as well as in the world of modeling. Definitely young people get exploited, used up or burnt out in all of those fields. So I think that it's a bit silly to feel that suggesting these kinds of things happen in porn is being unfair to the adult business. Granted, the documentary didn't really spell out the fact that these things happen in more than just porn. Still, I really felt that it was being more critical of how our society makes it seem like anyone and everyone is destined for stardom. You don't have to have any special talent or even be exceptionally attractive. You just need to be available and willing to expose yourself to the world. I don't even mean literally get naked - I just mean put yourself out there in a very public way. Meanwhile, the reality is that most folks posting to Twitter, Instagram and/or YouTube don't make it big and never will. Social media churns out tons of has-beens who realistically never have been. And some of the girls in the documentary seemed to think that porn could be a stepping stone to stardom - they imagined being the next Kim Kardashian. And some feminist bloggers felt these girls were unfairly portrayed as victims of the fame game. They would've preferred them being shown as empowered by exploiting their sexuality just like it was any other talent. Admittedly, the documentary only showed one girl who seemed to be finding success and who seemed fine with what she was doing. So, definitely, there could have been more examples, like her, to give a more balanced picture, although again, stardom remains elusive for many mainstream actors, singers, models and even athletes. | |
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| 06-13-17 09:59am - 2749 days | #15 | |
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TVFR (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 20 Registered: Oct 25, '14 |
Old subject but still interesting. Agreed I would add a lot of judgement on porn career is due to hypocrisy. When a student tries a college course and drops it . Or tries a job and drops it. I have never heard someone say the reason is because the course or job is "bad" or dangerous. It is only said about sex related jobs. I believe the reason is that people consider porn is bad then they use examples of failures as proof of their believe. Regarding porn insiders who criticize such documentary. They only reflect point of view of people who have not (yet ?) quit porn industry. Therefore their comment is biased. I think it is very complex to have a realistic understanding of the situation of this business. A simplified description of the situation might be : Insiders don't say porn industry is evil because they are in it. (I simplifies, many warn that porn is not for everyone) Outsiders have their own view based on personal values and belief. Not on knowledge. Insiders who have quit have probably did quit because of bad experience / career failure / incapacity to cope with judgement of beloved ones. Their comment is based on that negative personal experience or inadequation. This is like a soldier publicly saying army is bad. It doesn't proove army is bad. It only is a guess the soldier has not the army mindset and he won't stay long in the army. Therefore comments about porn are only personal comments. They are not factual. And they hardly proove anything. I am interested if anyone has reference to a serious sociological study on sex workers. | |
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| 06-13-17 10:57am - 2749 days | #16 | |
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Pyrenees (0)
Active User Posts: 153 Registered: Feb 25, '15 Location: USA |
I cannot point to any studies on the impact of porn on sex workers. I also agree that what I say is my opinion based upon a lifetime of watching porn, reviewing porn and my huge interest in porn interviews. I am not a expert. But compared to the general public I am way better informed lol. I do not judge people in porn because its not my job to judge. I have plenty of personal issues I need to deal with in my own life and don't have the time to cast stones lol. I have a great deal of compassion for porn workers. They get the stigma big time and the payout IMO is not worth it. And very few of them succeed at the level they can and DO retire. For example one of my fav's Amber R, retired then tragically died. But she did make it, did retire. My other fav, Randy Spears appears to be currently retired and has participated in some anti porn propaganda by a Church. My heart goes out to Randy, he was one of my fav's. But no one lasts forever in the industry and everyone wants a normal life when it is over. It must be really hard to overcome the social hatred. But I know there is love and happiness out there for him I just hope he has found it by now. Yes the porn industry takes new girls chews them up and spits them out. Guess what. So does the prison system, so does the education system. The good old USA is a AT WILL employeer and I have seen Wal-Mart employees treated worse than porn stars. The problem is when people THINK a job or a car or a house makes them 'better' than someone else. Life is hard, it can suck and it can be brutal. My heart goes out to men and women who choose to work in the sex industry to support their families. In many parts of the world its not a choice at all. As I have discussed in the past the Regan Administration spent millions to prove porn led to violence and rape. When in fact the results of the report proved the opposite. In my own college research I found that in Japan where porn is open they have some of the lowest crime rates in the world. While in sexually oppressed USA we have at least 1 serial killer per state. Its not a coincidence. Sexual repression and shame can lead to violence. These are just some of my thoughts. But at the heart of Hot Girls Wanted they are disingenuous. The actress herself was still escorting and doing porn. But this is just my opinion. It has points but it was not a fair and balanced portrayal. It had an agenda and tried to push it. But to its credit, the sex industry has chewed up far more people than it has made super stars. You can say that about every other sport and job too though. 1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; | |
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| 06-13-17 05:16pm - 2749 days | #17 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
The number of high school football and basketball players is huge. A select few get college scholarships. A much smaller number gets to become pros. You can say that high school and college sports chews up a large number of young people. They all had dreams and aspirations of sports success. In all but a tiny percentage of cases they were and are chasing elusive dreams that will not happen. California and New York are filled with aspiring actors, singers and dancers. How many are waiting tables in restaurants? Enough that this is a cliche that everyone has heard about. Young people often chase impossible dreams that will not be achieved. Porn is just one of many routes to success for only a few. | |
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| 06-14-17 12:45pm - 2748 days | #18 | |
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jook (0)
Active User  Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
I'm basically an outsider with little knowledge of how things work in the porn industry. It seems to be cloaked in secrecy which made me that much more curious. I thought the movie was very educational, at least for me. I didn't draw any conclusions or judgments about the industry from the movie. I will say this. I don't agree with the analogies discussed here to mainstream work. My take is that these girls are naive and greedy and want to earn a quick buck any way they can, legal or not, principled or not. I'm guessing that porn is a last resort for virtually all of them. However, it is their only viable choice to obtain glamour and fast money. Basically, the only talent needed is the god-given talent of good looks. While I feel their pain, I find it hard to sympathize. This is the price one pays for taking the easy way out. Like a pact with the devil? I bust my chops by going to school for a zillion years and working my way up the corporate ladder, and they make 10x more than me. No, I can't sympathize. | |
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