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| Porn Users Forum » Is Max Hardcore porn’s most controversial person? |
| 1-18 of 18 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 07-03-11 10:50am - 4921 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I was thinking about this question this morning when I was reading some replies to my earlier question on Missy Misfit. It seems every time someone mentions Max Hardcore it generates a lot of chatter. I was thinking that maybe the question should be “Is Max Hardcore the most polarizing person in porn?” or maybe “Is Max Hardcore the most divisive person in porn?” but I figured those questions can’t really be correct (to ask you guys at PU anyway) since the almost-universal opinion on Max is generally negative. I consider myself a bit of a Max fan and my opinion of his newer work is generally negative. I don’t think he should have been jailed for what he did, but he certainly didn’t do the porn business any favors by creating the scenes that he did. So are there any other porn-business people out there who generate the same level of discussion? Obviously what makes Max so controversial is his degradation of women, but other guys do that too and we don’t seem to notice them as much. Admittedly, no one seems to degrade women with as much glee or zeal as Max does. The only porn person I can think of who genuinely seems to take some delight in degrading women (as a director not a performer) is Jim Powers. His behind-the-scenes stuff that he presumably approves for inclusion don’t make him look like a guy who you’d let date your sister. And there are websites that are just as bad (Facial Abuse comes to mind), but none of them are as widely available or as known as Max is. And it can’t be just the fact that Max was prosecuted. Other porn people have been prosecuted and we don’t jump on them like we do Max, even if many of us (me included) think that Max was persecuted by a particular ideology. I don’t think any of us would hold a negative opinion of Adam Glasser/Seymore Butts merely because he got prosecuted for showing a fisting scene. Any thoughts on this? | |
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| 07-03-11 07:20pm - 4921 days | #2 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I think one of the reaons why Jim Powers isn't considered on the same level as Max is because a most of his stuff doesn't involve girls that are mistreated. It's mostly pretend but I'm sure he has crossed the line a few times but those generally don't appear on screen. Most people don't look at the BTS content so they wouldn't see what might have gone on before, during and after a shoot. Khan Tusion who's the guy behind the Meat holes site as well as others has a pretty bad reputation when it comes to the treatment of performers but he was never as big as Max so less notoriety. The guys behind Facial Abuse and a few other sites seem to have taken Max place in regards to the mistreatment of girls. I've seen some photos from one girl who started doing one of their shoot but had to stop because of how bad it was. We aren't talking about a naive 18yrs old who's just getting into porn either. She basically got tricked by someone she thought she knew and paid the price. Part of her scene is on their site but you won't see anything beyond the BJ part because she walked away before it got worse. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 07-03-11 10:21pm - 4921 days | #3 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I'm not sure if Max Hardcore is that well known outside of porn, and even then only by those familiar with the "dark side" that some consider hardcore content.  And even if you just like watching the more "mainstream" hardcore content from the bigger U.S. porn studios you might not have heard of Max. I have a terrible time with names and there are a ton of people I recognize (by their face!  ) but could never match a name to, and Max might have been that way for me for a few years until I finally put the name to the notorious content.I've heard of Jim Powers, and don't think of him as particularly abusive (though didn't he get yelled at a couple years ago by the what's-her-name young actress, and the video was uploaded to YouTube?). And sometimes I can't even match Powers' face to his name, though I recall his voice pretty well (creepy!). But in the overall pornosphere, I can think of a couple of notorious names, though they're not particularly current, and they are: - Larry Flynt: Sort of old news by now, but he did introduce the notorious un-airbrushed, uncensored labia to skin mags, and his Hustler mag (and its even dirtier sister publications) along with his videos are still reasonably hardcore. Historically he changed porn, for better (my vote) or for worse, and I'd say he's pretty controversial outside of porn. Or at least he used to be. - Traci Lords: What porn producer not vying for a jail sentence doesn't know her name? If performing underage, getting away with it for several years, before finally getting caught and making a sweeping age-verification change to the industry isn't controversial, I don't know what is. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 07-03-11 10:28pm - 4921 days | #4 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I want to add that there are some other fairly notorious names in porn, but mostly from drug, murder, suicide, jail sentence-type events that can be pretty depressing to bring up. Nothing creepier to watch a young actress do a nasty but hot performance, and then look her up afterwards to find out that, oh boy, she was found dead in a motel about a year ago, causes unknown!  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 07-04-11 02:29pm - 4920 days | #5 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
That happened to me only the other day, I was in the middle of downloading a scene with a pretty hot model in it, decided to read the comments that came with the video and found that she had died a year earlier. I stopped that download in a hurry. I have no idea now as to who she was or what she died from but it just didn't feel proper to watch a porn scene with a young girl in it who was now dead.  DVD sites should not even upload DVDs like that out of respect for the model and her relatives. Of course, in the case of the Classics, that's a different story. I watched a John Holmes movie only the other day and saw nothing wrong with that. | |
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| 07-04-11 03:50pm - 4920 days | #6 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
That whole incident with Tanner Mayes bugged me about Powers. Sure, she was acting like a kid having a hissy fit, but, well, she sort of was a kid having a hissy fit. The fact that he filmed it, included it as footage on a DVD and also put it on the web is pretty low. Anything for a buck... But I have to admit to having an awful lot of his material in my collection. He may be an asshole, but he seems to make some excellent porn, assuming you have the taste for what he makes. His American Bukkake series is excellent, his American Gokkun series is unsurpassed. Then there are classic series like Assy, Babysitter, Gag Factor, Naughty Little Nymphos, Teacher's Pet, Young and Anal [aka YA] and what may be my favorite series of all time: Kelly the Coed. Hmmm... maybe I'm being a little hypocritical criticizing Jim Powers after I've probably funded a couple of his movies through all my purchases of his stuff. | |
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| 07-04-11 04:05pm - 4920 days | #7 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
Pat - you and turboshaft have convinced me that I'm wrong about Jim Powers. I think I'll track him down and send him a fruit basket. Part of the re-think was realizing that a huge part of my collection was directed by him. And now that I think of it, I once planned to join his site but the videos look like they're pretty low resolution. So Jim Powers, if you're reading this, I'm sorry. And make your website better! I hadn't thought of Khan Tusion and you're right that he is probably as bad as Max. I had a membership to Meat Holes several years ago and found it a bit disturbing. That and Midnight Prowl. I think Midnight Prowl was the worse of the two. What I found disturbing was the mental abuse he inflicted on them, having each of them speak to their parents through the camera and having them call themselves a "piece of shit whore." Mentally, that has to have a negative impact. What may lessen Tusion's impact on the porn world is that he is web only (as far as I know) so the market is potentially smaller. Now that I think of it, another possible candidate is a guy who I think goes by the name "Steve Sweet." He used to run Sweet Members out of British Columbia and I think he may have faced charges in Canada. What may keep him off this list is that many of the girls came back for more and usually seemed like willing partners. There was one girl named Maya who did a lot of extreme stuff for him. I've seen her in a couple of porn DVDs but she seems to have worked primarily with Sweet Members. Facial Abuse isn't in the same league as most porn. It isn't even the same sport. I had a membership there and watched some of it, but girls genuinely crying and begging for mercy isn't a turn on for me. If it ever happens that it becomes a turn on, I'll sell my computer and take up Sudoku. | |
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| 07-04-11 09:40pm - 4920 days | #8 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I've never seen the video myself but I've read plenty of accounts and Tanner wasn't exactly snow white pure in that little incident but Jim is still a dick for having posted it and included it on the dvd. The people at Brazzer did something slightly similar not too long ago to Jennifer White. Another cute teen with serious substance abuse. The main difference is that the Brazzer incident was a live shoot so it was kind of hard not to post it as it was happening in real time. The good news for Tanner is that she seems to be getting better. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 07-04-11 11:36pm - 4920 days | #9 | |
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BadMrFrosty (0)
Active User Posts: 124 Registered: Mar 05, '10 Location: Prague (Czech Republic) |
I think the thing that differentiates ol Max from the other kings of humiliation is his obvious pedophilic tendencies. I like harder porn. I like humiliation porn. I like rough sex. I like to see fisting in porn. You would think I would be a loyal fan of Max's work. This, however, is not the case. I feel very uneasy seeing very young, although 18+, girls dressed up and instructed to act like they are 12 years old. What makes me feel even more ill is the thought of what this guy gets up to off camera... The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa | |
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| 07-05-11 08:29am - 4919 days | #10 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended  Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I think Midnight Prowl was the worse of the two. What I found disturbing was the mental abuse he inflicted on them, having each of them speak to their parents through the camera and having them call themselves a "piece of shit whore." Mentally, that has to have a negative impact. Facial Abuse isn't in the same league as most porn. It isn't even the same sport. I had a membership there and watched some of it, but girls genuinely crying and begging for mercy isn't a turn on for me. Rearadmiral, I have seen where Facial Abuse uses some of the same tactics. They frequently have the models speak to their parents, even their husbands. "Piece of shit whore" is a term I have heard in their videos. Either both of these sites use the same style or you may have gotten them confused. On another note, Facial Abuse rarely has scenes where their models overreact to the action. Yes, sometimes, but not as a norm. I think they mostly know what is going to happen and go along, although I also feel that often the site goes further than is necessary to make a hot scene. | |
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| 07-05-11 01:18pm - 4919 days | #11 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
Excellent point. I hadn't considered this one aspect of Max's work that sets him apart from just about everyone else. Other DVD series and sites that promote younger ladies go to great lengths to make it clear that even though the model is dressed in a schoolgirl outfit that she is at least 18. In some cases, it's probably a little overkill to have the model say "I'm 18" when you know she's been in the business for five years and is pushing 30. But Max really did play this up - with the frilly skirts, pigtails and lollipops. I recall that he once did a scene with Regan Star (I think) where in the middle of it she exclaimed "but I'm only 12 years old!" Max, rightly, had the authorities come down on him for that. And I also wonder what kind of weird stuff he was up to in his private life... | |
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| 07-05-11 01:24pm - 4919 days | #12 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
You're right - both Facial Abuse and Midnight Prowl use the same techniques. I think Facial Abuse is newer so maybe they stole the idea from Khan Tusion. Good point about Facial Abuse, but they do occasionally show a model breaking down and/or storming off the set. But a lot more of them make it through and seem to be willing participants. I remember one scene I liked with Audrianna Angel. I wouldn't call her an 'extreme' model at all but she seemed fine when she was being abused. Certainly many of the older videos, and most of the videos starring known pornstars seemed more tame than the newer shoots and with unknown models. | |
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| 07-05-11 04:51pm - 4919 days | #13 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
See I never saw Max's stuff has pedophilic in nature. I agree that he loved to dress the girls in mini skirts and make them play young teenagers but I always took that to be is shtick or trade mark. That particular fondness of dressing the women like young teenagers goes back to his beginning in porn. The thing about having a woman dress like a teenager or young girl and then play the part isn't really going to satisfy a pedophile. These people aren't interested in looking at women that play as little girls they want to see little girls that play as women. I personally love the long white socks, plaid skirt, white blouse and pigtails look. I don't care that the woman is 40yrs old or 18yrs old. The look is what I'm interested in and not the fact that it's usually worn by young girls. That's why I never had a problem with his choice of play acting and clothing. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 07-05-11 05:02pm - 4919 days | #14 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Midnight prowl was also a Khan site so that's why you got the talk to your parents shit in it. He is/was a major douchebag when it came to treating the girls like crap. He wasn't into making good porn. He wanted to humiliate the girls and sadly it must have been popular because his sites had quite a few members at one point. I was a member of the sweet network of sites. Unless some of the content you are talking about wasn't on when I joined. I don't remember him being as bad as you say. I know that something happened to him but I don't know if it was a legal issue or what. On a side note. Maya did one video with Max. I'm not sure if it was availbe on steve sweets site or Max but she didn't do anything more intense on that video than she had done on steve's site. That girl loved extreme sex. Amazingly I've been a member of facial abuse twice. The last time was in 2010 and it will be the last. I'm still not sure why I joined a second time because I don't remember enjoying myself the first time. I think he had a couple scenes with girls I really like but I should have known that the action would be unwatchable. Now I do and I will stear anyone away from facial abuse. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 07-05-11 05:31pm - 4919 days | #15 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I might have misled you - I realize that Meat Holes and Midnight Prowl were part of the same network, but I think the way I wrote that made it seem otherwise. That network had a lot of material when I joined maybe four or five years ago, but I haven't been tempted to join again. Maybe I'll take a quick look sometime. Maybe our difference of opinion on Sweet Members is just nuances. I guess most of the girls didn't look or act coerced, and many of them actually seemed to enjoy what they were doing. Now that I think of it, there were some pretty decent scenes there. Maya was my favourite, but there was another (Mia, I think) who did a scene with Max. Is it possible that you are confusing the two? I'm not saying that Maya didn't, just that I know Mia did. Maya is a dark brunette, Mia was a dirty blonde. Maya did a couple of fetish DVDs, but the only near 'mainstream' one I know she did was call "College Wild Parties 12." And she wasn't even properly credited. Unfortunately IAFD doesn't have a listing for her that I can find. As for my memory that they were extreme, maybe it was the pee drinking that I'm thinking of. | |
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| 07-06-11 01:43am - 4918 days | #16 | |
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BadMrFrosty (0)
Active User Posts: 124 Registered: Mar 05, '10 Location: Prague (Czech Republic) |
Its the way he gets them to act that bothers me. When he gets a skinny girl that has just turned 18 but could easily pass for 13, dresses her in a VERY childlike mannor and instructs her to call him daddy or mister you cant say that alarm bells dont start ringing. The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa | |
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| 07-06-11 10:24pm - 4918 days | #17 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Tanner Mayes--that's who it was!  Maybe Powers was just trying to cover his ass, and he was worried Tanner would go on a Twitter tantrum and bitch and accuse him of something he didn't actually do. What was she--20? 21? Not exactly the height of emotional maturity for most people, especially a girl who rides boners for a living. Hardly the lowest thing if you ask me, maybe not even that abusive. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 07-06-11 10:48pm - 4918 days | #18 | ||
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Sorry but I disagree. Porn is fantasy, and if the audience was so out of it that they took the whole "Gee mister!" act he put his actresses up to then that's their problem! I had doubts about their sincerity, and how much they really knew going in, but I never questioned their age, no matter how many pigtails, schoolgirl uniforms, and clown preteen makeup they were dolled up in. Personally my problem was Max always seemed to double down--and gleefully at that--when the girls were all but saying "No more, please!" I'm no angel myself, but I think if my partner was making those kind of faces I wouldn't continue at the same pace, or at all. Max however never once let up, and I didn't find that particularly entertaining. But when the girl is really into it in such rough scenes, so much so that she starts to wear the guy out, making him stop, now that's fucking hot! 
Maybe nothing weirder than his professional life. When life gets that crazy down at the office--or in his case, his fully tiled living room--you probably need a much slower pace at home. (Not to mention all the money he'd be spending on clear plastic funnels.  ) "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | ||
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