Comment Replies (9)
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Replies to the user comment above. |
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1
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asmith12 (0)
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> There is a word for this: Fraud.
While in general I like to tell that some site is swindling it's customers ;-), I don't think I would name it "fraud" in this case (it's stupid on their part, but that's another story). And that's because at least for me, "trial" means something to try :-); kind of test drive without any guarantees that it will be the full thing. For example, when I'm taking a car for a test drive, I won't complain if salesguy will be in the car and I won't be allowed to drink my coffee and spill it all over the place :-).
Overall, it's all about expectations, but IMHO trials are generally not expected to be full; if somebody gives me full trial - good, if not - tough luck, but I don't have much to complain about.
So IMHO "Don't even bother with trial" is a useful warning, thanks, but naming it "fraud" is IMHO a bit too much.
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06-01-09 05:51am
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2
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Denner (0)
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Mac and Bumble is one of my favorite "hate-sites". It's generally a fake concerning previews and what seems to be updates - old, old stuff (like videos of for exampel Lonnie Adams shown as new stuff) - man, it's OLD, very old.
Take a look at earlier comments AND PU-reviews.
One thing I really do NOT understand is how our friends at TBP can still give this site 90.8 score...
BTW: Took a look at the join-page: don't see no trail - just a $19.95 for a month and a special $13.33/month for 3 months...
But anyway - won't go near this site again.
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06-01-09 07:27am
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3
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Xororos (0)
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REPLY TO #1 - asmith12 :
asmith12:
Thanks for the comment. I think Fraud is warranted when you make every effort to discover the nature of what you're about to purchase and you find that you've purchased something else entirely. The vast majority of trial subscriptions I've purchased have all been full trials.
I'm thinking of rookiebabe, daisybeach, nakedhappygirls, perfect10, changeroomhunters, alyssadoll, rayspade, justnude, and countless others.
It doesn't really matter what you're buying, the company has a duty to tell you what to expect. In my book, when you go above and beyond a standard level of buying research (e.g. reading the fine print), and you STILL are given no indication, that matches the definition of fraud in my dictionary: wrongful deception intended to result in financial gain.
We're probably just arguing semantics and, like you, I'm okay if a site has a limited trial, but they usually tell you up front that it's limited. M&B did not.
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06-01-09 09:49am
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4
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asmith12 (0)
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REPLY TO #3 - Xororos :
> the company has a duty to tell you what to expect.
Right. But as I've said, the question is that if the very word "trial" implies some restrictions or not. And (playing devil's advocate) IMHO it can be easily argued that it does imply at least some restrictions (number of limited trials even in adult industry is not that small, you can see it on TBP, and if we'll go outside the adult industry, trials will become obviously limited). And if it is implied, what is the need to tell it once again?
> wrongful deception intended to result in financial gain.
Come on, $2 or so they're getting is not really a financial gain (they're paying almost all of it or even more for the transaction itself). The very idea of trial is to get you to stay more, and that's one of the reasons I think that limited trials (except for DL limits during trials) are more much more "stupidity" than "fraud".
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06-01-09 10:01pm
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5
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Xororos (0)
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REPLY TO #4 - asmith12 :
Yeah, we're officially arguing semantics :)
>> wrongful deception intended to result in financial gain.
>Come on, $2 or so they're getting is not really a financial gain (they're paying almost all >of it or even more for the transaction itself).
The financial gain isn't from the $3.95 trial, but from the full subscription that kicks in after 24 hours. It's merely a ploy to hook you. It's a classic bait and switch, which results in them being *that* much more likely to get you to sign on for the full subscription.
Moreover, it's a matter of principal. There is absolutely no reason that they shouldn't be up-front about the whole thing. If I knew I was getting a limited trial, I probably would have tried it anyway. It just annoys me, you know?
I understand that you're playing devil's advocate in regards to what a "trial" is. Perhaps the word "trial" outside of the adult industry has a different meaning, but what does that matter? We're not outside of the adult industry. The bottom line for me is, I've done a lot of trials and the ones that are limited tell me so, so I expect that. You can say it's redundant, but we clearly have different expectations for trials. I consider a trial to be limited to length of subscription only.
I don't think we're going to come to an agreement, but it's a fun conversation, especially since the subject is porn :-)
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06-02-09 12:01am
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6
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asmith12 (0)
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REPLY TO #5 - Xororos :
> It's merely a ploy to hook you. It's a classic bait and switch, which results in them being *that* much more likely to get you to sign on for the full subscription.
For me it would work as an exact opposite (unlike classic "bait and switch", these guys don't have good excuse of "being out of stock" for advertised item, which weakens their position greatly). On the other hand, I'm not sure if I'm a typical user in this regard.
> We're not outside of the adult industry.
Well, if the court would ever consider such a case of deceptive practices in adult industry, it will VERY LIKELY consider common terminology and practices not only within this industry, but on much broader scale. And it is the court which ultimately decides what is fraud and what's not, isn't it?
> The bottom line for me is, I've done a lot of trials and the ones
> that are limited tell me so, so I expect that. You can say it's
> redundant, but we clearly have different expectations for trials. I > consider a trial to be limited to length of subscription only.
Well, I understand your point, but on the other hand I see LOTS of MUCH MORE deceptive practices (like PRE-CHECKED "trials" with outrageous renewal rates when subscribing) in this industry, so compared to those "pre-checked" guys unannounced trial limitations don't look that bad to me.
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06-02-09 05:38am
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7
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Xororos (0)
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REPLY TO #6 - asmith12 :
>Well, I understand your point, but on the other hand I see LOTS of MUCH MORE
>deceptive practices (like PRE-CHECKED "trials" with outrageous renewal rates when
>subscribing)
Well, you've got me there! Any site that includes pre-checked trials is not cool. Again, I think we've had very different experiences. Until M&B, I had never joined a site with a pre-checked trial or anything like it. I'm aware that stuff like that is out there, but I've never joined a site like that.
Maybe it was a combination of the pre-checked trial they tried to get me to accept, or the really patronizing email from the support staff that treated me like I was an idiot who never joined an adult site before, or the trial that was so severely limited that it was almost useless - whatever the reason, I got a very negative impression of M&B and I can't recommend it to anyone.
Sites like that make me really appreciate the ones who do it well in a straightforward and direct manner.
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06-02-09 12:41pm
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8
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asmith12 (0)
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REPLY TO #7 - Xororos :
> Until M&B, I had never joined a site with a pre-checked trial or
> anything like it. I'm aware that stuff like that is out there, but
> I've never joined a site like that.
Wow, you've got REALLY lucky. I would say that from my (pretty extensive) experience at least 1/3rd of sites these days are trying to swindle users using PRE-CHECKED trials (especially typical for the sites which credit card transactions are handled by Epoch).
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06-02-09 11:29pm
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9
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Xororos (0)
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REPLY TO #8 - asmith12 :
It's probably the style of sites that I join. Mostly very erotic/softcore/photography websites. I've never joined a hardcore site or anything too extreme. That could be the difference. I guess FTV gave me a pre-checked trial, but man . . . that's the last I remember and that was two years ago. Epoch might be the deal. I've used them maybe once. It's almost always ccbill for me.
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06-03-09 09:59am
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