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| Porn Users Forum » Is It Incompetence Or Is It Intentional? |
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| 09-02-13 07:15am - 4129 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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Marphel (0)
Active User Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 08, '11 Location: USA |
Is It Incompetence Or Is It Intentional? Is it incompetence or is it intentional? For some time now I have been wrestling with this question. Every time I watch a porn video or sort through a photo set, I agonize over the failure of the cameraman and/or director to seize the moment and present the female performer(s) at their best. For example, when I see a gorgeous female performer beautifully made-up and styled, perfectly dressed or costumed on a nice set or good location I get excited. But that excitement quickly turns to disappointment when its all wasted or all gone 30 seconds into the video or 3 images into the photo set. Why go to so much trouble of model/actress selection, makeup and styling, wardrobe decisions, set building or location choices if it's all going to be wasted or discarded so quickly? Is it incompetence on the part of the cameraman/director? Do they not see the wasted opportunities? Or is it intentional? Just the way they want to present it? Also when the male actor is introduced too early in the scene/set and starts hamming it up, grabbing and groping ass, cock-blocking the camera and scene stealing his way to another ruined video or picture set. To me it is extremely annoying! Think about it, any competent photographer/videographer would react immediately if someone or something were to get between his camera and his main subject. If it happens he is going to stop shooting and ask the offender to move, or he will change his shooting position/angle and continue shooting from there. However, this is a constant problem in porn videos with male performers blocking the cameras view. How many times have you seen a doggy style position being shot from a side view only to have the male performer stick his leg and foot forward and totally block the view of the female? That's right too many times to count! Or worst yet, the cameraman who parks his camera directly behind the male performer and fills the screen with male ass crack!! Again I ask, is it incompetence on the part of the cameraman/director? Do they not find it annoying to say the least? Or is it intentional? Just the way they want to present it? What is your opinion? | |
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| 09-02-13 10:11am - 4129 days | #2 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
I think its human nature of business owners. Most any business you will find people created that business because they "think " they can be good at it. I have found in the adult industry that 90% of my interaction from forums to websites are people that are just way outta touch of what the customer base wants. No one person can know everything, but you get talented webmasters and photographers and they have no clue how to provide a service to their customers. Some of the HUGE sites are even laughable at how out of touch they are. You asked is it incompetence on the part of the cameraman/director? I say that most are ignorant as to what the viewer and customers want. Good intentions does not provide a good product. I posted somewhere awhile back, in the 1990's they sold trucks without bumpers ? Example of out of touch big wigs. many people buy a truck to haul stuff and trailers. The Company figured that there are so many bumpers in teh after market lets not sell it with it. But most bought one from the dealer anyways. Shows clear time and time again why many businesses fail is they fail to realize what they know may not be what the customers want ! Since 2007 | |
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| 09-02-13 11:01am - 4129 days | #3 | |
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thirstyfish (0)
Active User  Posts: 30 Registered: May 20, '13 |
You raise some interesting questions and make some good observations, Marphel. I think many scenes suffer from errors of commission and errors of omission. It's tricky to attribute these to incompetence or as intentional. I keep telling myself: don't attribute to ill intent that which can be better be explained by incompetence. Except when you see the same errors over and over again: then it's a bad habit, not a mistake. Here are some opinions/theories. Producers/directors want to return maximum ROI to their investors - who I suspect are not subscribers like ourselves. The name of the game in making a scene or photo shoot is: get it done as fast as possible. Taking the time to 'do it right' makes for a more expensive product. No single person is responsible for managing a given scene or photo shoot from beginning to end. Competition between directors takes the form of imitation, rather than innovation or quality. The female talent pool is awash with neophytes who, performance-wise, are not yet able to 'hold their own' against the relatively small and (over) seasoned pool of male performers. Many directors are former or current male performers and, as such, they allow the guys to engage in general tomfoolery and upstaging hijinks: i.e. stunts. Stunts are a way to pad the scene and/or an attempt to appeal to a cross-over market. Porn happens because a large number of things amazingly fail to go wrong. | |
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| 09-02-13 11:36am - 4129 days | #4 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
This has been my chronic complaint, as anyone in this forum can tell you. I have given up on picture sites because all of them have been doing that. A handful of pictures fully dressed, and after that the model gets quickly down to the business of being naked and spread. I think that those photographers are very much in tune with their younger users who can't wait to get to the "good stuff," but to most of us older subscribers the journey to full nudity is much more important for its tease and anticipation value. Too bad more women are not interested in porn (and no wonder they aren't) because they are not impressed with what turns most young porn users on. Every romantic book containing sex (and most of them do), written by a female author, invariably mentions how the heroine will dress in nice lacy, silky, sexy lingerie in order to make herself feel more sexy, as well as make herself even more appealing to her partner. Yet, this is not reflected in most solo picture sites any longer. I think the modern young male has turned into a caveman who can't wait to rip off whatever few bits his female is wearing in order to get to the "important" stuff quicker. This is evident when one looks at the photo sets and videos being offered at the moment. Sensuality has gone out the window in favor of raw sex. | |
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| 09-02-13 04:36pm - 4129 days | #5 | |
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Marphel (0)
Active User Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 08, '11 Location: USA |
Thanks for your comments guys. Your observations and opinions are greatly appreciated. | |
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| 09-03-13 07:06am - 4128 days | #6 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Messmer I think said it well. I think since the late 80's to early 1990's at the break on the internet mas porn production brought the onset of sloppy material. I am looking at a couple sites right now and its laughable how ill equipped they are and what poor product is produced and they want you to spend your money on crap. Since 2007 | |
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| 09-03-13 11:12am - 4128 days | #7 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
If this thread is touching on narcoleptic videographers, then ,brother, I'm your man .....Esp. if it has to do with those airhead lensmen who doze on close-ups while focusing on the genitals. Wherein through endless frames all we see is this locked-in scene of a guy's hairy ass as his balls are resting on the crack of the gal's vagina. "SOMEBODY PLEASE SHAKE THIS DUMMY AND TELL THE IDIOT TO BACK-OFF FOR PETE SAKE!" I've even speculated that most of these mentally challenged "dropped babies" were, as a youth, likely sorely deprived of seeing or knowing what pussies actually looked like (thank prudish mommies for that). So now, camped behind a camera, flushed with free porn, he's probably trying to do catch-up at our expense! Harking back in time at my tenure to this great forum, as well as being a thorn in my side, I've also been preaching until I'm blue in the face about it ... alas stupidity still reigns. | |
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| 09-03-13 02:19pm - 4128 days | #8 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
GM, Good points as usual my friend. I think all directors and camera personnel should spank the monkey before filming. I have to think the blood rushed from their brains to their pecker and they lose all cognitive functions. Furthermore I find it troubling that they can not find the right angle, I mean is it just me or has a women pussy and mans pecker been in the same place for 10's of thousands of years, Yet the simpleton still can find them? I say we step up and send a diagram a picture if it where explaining this is a mans penis, this a womens pussy and when the two shall meet ( no pun intended but implied)it should be natural and not forced by a shaky handed pimple faced nimrod that could not get the right shot if his life depended on it............... Aaaaaaa a solution perhaps have a raging pack of lions in a cage with him filming with the reality he will be eaten alive if he fails to get the shot. Either way problem solved. Cybertoad Out ! Since 2007 | |
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| 09-03-13 04:17pm - 4128 days | #9 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
You don't do bad yourself, CB. Truly ....... I shutter to think what this forum would do without your contributions. Always hands-on experience with so much cool stuff. I've learned a lot from you .... I mean expert stuff ranging from you-name-it-firearms to conceivably where one can purchase viagra coated rubbers (sans receptacles) for less than the price of a pack of cigarettes. Did I mention hilarious? "spank the monkey" ....priceless!  | |
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| 09-03-13 06:13pm - 4128 days | #10 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
It is pretty tragic when one considers, as you have, how much preparation goes into a scene before it's shot, only for it to suffer because of what happens when it is shot. I also can't stand male performers blocking the view with their legs or the camera being trained on the man's ratty ass. And I really hate it when they get so much into the scene that it's this "Hey, I'm fucking this girl and you're not!" kind of shit. Like, we should give the asshole a gold star on his weiner just because he can (yawn) fuck, too. So I think that the missing piece is in the preparation about how the participants are going to behave and how much belly-down-flat drilling we're going to actually see -- to give but just one possible example. Then you'll have scenes like Breanne Benson's "Swallow My Pride" or Jenna Haze's "Pure Sextacy 3." Perhaps they should be required viewing for training purposes. It's like, "Now see here, son? You keep yer face OUT of the picture and you don't block the damn view!" Maybe what we need is a college that offers a Certificate in Pornographic Video Performance. Nahh! That wouldn't be popular ... I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. Edited on Sep 03, 2013, 06:25pm | |
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| 09-03-13 07:44pm - 4128 days | #11 | |
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thirstyfish (0)
Active User Posts: 30 Registered: May 20, '13 |
This part of the thread is getting wonderfully funny. Thank you for the chuckles  Let us not neglect post-production ... and the welcome back to reality continuity error. Watched a couple of scenes recently (Obedience School 2 and a London Keyes/Jessica Jaymes massage parlour thingee). At one point in OS2, the gals basically rip the shirt off the guy. Cut to the next sequence and the guy's shirt is back on. Did he get cold? In the G/G scene, Jessica is getting undressed for her 'rub down'. First sequence and off comes the jewelry, shirt and the sandals. Cut to the next sequence and off come the pants and sandals. She is really taking the heck off of those sandals. We're not talking about nailing the consistency on some elaborate dinner scene for a table set with 100 props or something. Shirt. Sandals. How difficult can it be? Porn happens because a large number of things amazingly fail to go wrong. | |
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| 09-03-13 11:11pm - 4128 days | #12 | |
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biker (0)
Active User  Posts: 632 Registered: May 03, '08 Location: milwaukee, wi |
I would be happy if they stopped looking at the camera. This ruins the whole fantasy for me. They're suppose the be making love to each other and not be interested in who is watching them. It doesn't make it very sexy if they are more interested in the camera then their partner. Warning Will Robinson | |
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| 09-04-13 01:02am - 4128 days | #13 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Well sassafras-an-sour-dough!!!! Doggone-it... There is somebody else out there who's pecker drops to half-mast when these performers can't keep their eyes off the camera. One of many pet-peeves that frost my balls. "Lookie" 'hey, mr cameraman.... over here." "No! not him....ME, YOU IDIOT!" "MY LIPS ..'Hey Buster. get a closeup of my lips!" "Where the hell you going with the camera, asshole!" "How's Hollywood gonna know who I am if you keep movin' the damed camera around?" "Will somebody kick this shithead off the set and get a lensman who can appreciate real beauty." "Hey, half-ass!!! "I'm fuckin' over here!" "Were you born brain-dead or what??" So on it goes, with would-be-wanna-be-discovered porn You're right, biker ... it may as well be ice water thrown on your dick! | |
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| 09-04-13 09:34am - 4127 days | #14 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
I think often it is incompetence and laziness. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 09-04-13 04:58pm - 4127 days | #15 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
I've never heard that expression. It's hilarious. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 09-05-13 10:14am - 4126 days | #17 | |
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jberryl69 (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,000 Registered: Nov 27, '10 Location: neverland |
I think it's incontinence for sure. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee. If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat! | |
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| 09-05-13 12:53pm - 4126 days | #18 | |
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Pornist (0)
Suspended Posts: 1 Registered: Sep 05, '13 |
Very relevant question! I think: there is a misconvetion of what is erotics in most Areas of porn industry! One of the most disappointing site for me is Brazzers: They have all you need: really sexy and really slutty actors, but they do not succeed to put them in Scene in an erotic way! The way they film the actresses and action do not touch the recipients. Another example: The older vids of ZTOD are much more erotically touching than the newer ones. It's never the actresses as such: it's the way how to put them put in scene - or not! It's the camera that matters not the actresses as such! It's the conception of erotics that matters! You can film (put in scene) a mediocre looking women in way that causes a hard on between your legs! And you can film a Sienna West or Tiffany Mynx - that you fall asleep instantaneously. This leads to another question: why do the actresses not intervene properly! | |
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| 09-08-13 08:06am - 4123 days | #19 | |
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Marphel (0)
Active User Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 08, '11 Location: USA |
Right on Pornist. Especially what you wrote about Brazzers. They (Brazzers) have the potential to create some of the worlds best porn. Instead they totally waste their wealth of beautiful and talented women by ignoring them and focusing on the stupid tricks performed by idiotic stuntdicks. | |
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| 09-08-13 08:18am - 4123 days | #20 | |
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Marphel (0)
Active User Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 08, '11 Location: USA |
Graymane ... dude you crack me up. Thanks for making this frustrated man laugh. | |
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| 09-08-13 08:27am - 4123 days | #21 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
In my experience it's impossible to please everyone. Errors aside (and sometimes they are difficult to avoid - even Hollywood gets it wrong on a regular basis) I find that some customers like the actors to acknowledge the camera, others hate it. Some people like a long, slow build up, other complain about it getting boring. Some like photos, some video. Some don't understand why I don't just shoot both simultaneously (complaints about camera noise and visible flashes on video OR slightly blurry photos are the alternative). Some people like lots of talking, others don't like it, and don't get me started on accents. Different tastes! Is it better for a site to stick to a single style to be consistent and please a small membership, or try to span a range of styles and attract a wider range of members while not truly satisfying any of them? Add to all of this that budgets are getting tighter so shoots get less time and effort spent on them, and it just gets worse. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 09-08-13 09:00am - 4123 days | #22 | |
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Marphel (0)
Active User Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 08, '11 Location: USA |
Ed2009 you make valid points about the prospects of pleasing everyone, it cant be done. Also, from a business point of view it does makes sense to reach out to a larger audience. I agree with you 100% on those points. However my original points of contention still stand. When a cameraman parks his camera behind a male performers ass and sits there focusing on it for 5 minutes; who is his target audience? Surely you do not believe that the majority of subscribers to a hetero-sexual website want to be entertained by close-ups of male assholes? Yet, this happens all the time. My question is: Why? Is it incompetence or intentional? | |
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| 09-08-13 02:35pm - 4123 days | #23 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I believe it usually comes down to lack of care. Cameramen have a lot to worry about, sadly where the camera's pointing doesn't always get the priority it should. I've never had the problem you describe, but I have suffered camera men who repeatedly fail to keep lighting rigs out of shot. On occasions I had them leave spare cameras in a pile in shot. I've also had to deal with numerous photos where the camera/photographer has been caught in a reflection. It's even worse on video. Video is totally unforgiving of such errors. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 09-08-13 04:06pm - 4123 days | #24 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Being a photographer myself, I tend to be very hard on myself about shots. I think I have become pretty good over the many many years I have done it. That said : I found you either know what shot you need or want long before it arrives or you will always miss the shot you wanted. To many camera men want to live in the moment, hey thats probably more fun but in reality you are shooting at the =wrong time by trying to be one with the shot. The object must be one with the camera not you one with the camera. I learned long ago from a magazine photographer who said stop trying to take pictures and let the object take it for you. He went more indebth but is why many PHOTO's look staged when they shouldn't porn is not Vouge Mag, is porn it should be the object not the picture you are trying to get. Sadly I see allot of really poor photographers out there saying they are pros. Oh well. you can have the hotest models and the most money and the best equipment wont make a photographer good. Since 2007 | |
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| 09-09-13 01:59am - 4123 days | #25 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I wholeheartedly agree, Cybertoad. There are a LOT of poor photographers out there. In my experience a truly good photographer can get good results with amateur equipment, but a weak photographer rarely gets good results with the very best equipment. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 09-09-13 09:01am - 4122 days | #26 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
That is so very true.  Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 09-09-13 10:53am - 4122 days | #27 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
I have a simple some would say outdated Nikon D60. Effective pixels 10.2 million Image sensor 23.6 x 15.8 mm CCD sensor, total pixels: 10.75 million Image size (pixels) 3,872 x 2,592 [L], 2,896 x 1,944 [M], 1,936 x 1,296 [S] ISO sensitivity (Recommended Exposure Index) ISO 100 - 1,600 in steps of 1 EV. Can also be set to approx. 1 EV (ISO 3200 equivalent) above ISO 1600 Media SD memory cards, SDHC compliant Monitor 2.5-in., approx. 230k-dot, low-temperature polysilicon TFT LCD, brightness adjustment and with automatic defeat via Eye Sensor Exposure metering 3D Color Matrix Metering II, Center-Weighted and Spot Metering Exposure modes Digital Vari-program (Auto, Auto [flash off], Portrait, Landscape, Child, Sports, Close up, Night portrait), Programmed auto (P) with flexible program, Shutter-priority auto (S), Aperture-priority auto (A), Manual (M) Interface This is old school compared to what others use, the main feature I like is the D60 has a view finder only and not a screen. I think to many are using the new digital screens and getting unrealistic samples. This camera is about 10 years old has a rubber casing and is sturdy I would take it anywhere. Since 2007 | |
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| 09-09-13 11:20am - 4122 days | #28 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Believe me, Marphel, the pleasure is all mine. I get similar comments from fellow members all the time relating to my parodies and digs targeting the enormous hodgepodge of simpletons connected with the business of commercial Porn. But It's never enough! Neither gratitude for my producing guffaws for my PU family, or the perpetual pool of comic material, care-of the bumbling, nay, stumbling victims devoid of diencephalon through which sensory impulses pass to reach the cerebral cortex (whew!) Tanslation> dim-wits. Bottom line ..... You keep throwing kudos and yours-truly will toss back attempts at producing more laughter. | |
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| 09-09-13 10:10pm - 4122 days | #29 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
With a modicum of photographic talent or at least experience, plus a bare minimum of equipment and accessories (lenses, filters, lights, enough spare batteries and memory cards) you could shoot something reasonably decent with this. But sometimes the technology and a decent budget, or at least what looks like a decent budget, backfires and just makes for some truly boring photos. Perfect makeup, lighting, sets, and obvious Photoshop (very irritating!) can make for some pointless photography in my mind. I guess I've ultimately become a video man because the photos have become over-posed snoozefests devoid of what I can even imagine to be faked passion and pleasure. Unless it's very carefully edited--and that's rare, many scenes are simply one long clip--a video can at least convey some physical sense of the performer on the other side of the screen. Yeah, I understand that her window-shattering howls are probably not that genuine  , but at least you can see a performer work up an actual sweat and maybe have an amorously mischievous smile at the end of a scene. Photos too often simply show Plasticine-molded women with frozen expressions of what I presume were supposed to be pleasure but ended up looking like she was experiencing surgery without anesthesia. No thanks. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 09-09-13 10:33pm - 4122 days | #30 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
That is because apparently few in the industry are talented & patient enough to convey any eroticism.  Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 09-09-13 10:37pm - 4122 days | #31 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Yep Since 2007 | |
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| 09-10-13 07:28am - 4121 days | #32 | |
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Marphel (0)
Active User Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 08, '11 Location: USA |
You got a deal my friend. Witty, funny, and thought provoking posts are priceless. | |
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