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| Porn Users Forum » Is it overall in Porn's best interest to run tube sites out of Dodge? |
| 1-13 of 13 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 08-06-14 12:40am - 3791 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Is it overall in Porn's best interest to run tube sites out of Dodge? Is it overall in Porn's best interest to run tube sites out of Dodge? Have you noticed tube-mongers (sites) have been on the hot-seat of late? Appears greed and absence of guilt are now making house-calls. Hang with me if you will, while I embark on prevailing websites which continually won't play by the rules. With your permission, I'm bringing in the mob to make collective points that better explains my reasons for opening this thread. Greed, and the unwillingness to let in fellow mobster bosses and cash hungry Capos into his very lucrative control of the burgeoning drug trade, at the time making New York the hub of incoming drug traffic from the four corners of the globe. I don't recall the intensely old and ugly boss's name we're talking about who's the subject here. But I do hear he also powered any and all rackets located anywhere on his turf. Not only the boatloads, train-loads and eight wheeler's loading capacities stuffed with yankee greenbacks.....but this man of unbridled wealth also took in all of New York's extortion monies. All of which was collected from struggling merchants. Without excuses or protest aiding their pleads for more time, whether men women or whomever was present on payday all came across with all owed. all this thrust upon honest, good people trying to make an honest living. ye-gads, How low do you go? I summit one could fill Yankee Stratum with only the hundred dollar bills that came into this boss's possession. Still, he wanted it all .... shutting out the other crime families with sheer fear of the retribution he could incur upon any one of their solders. Those who was stupid enough to even attempt planning on getting into his pockets, was apprehended, tied tightly in blood-choking restraints and routinely over time underwent only professionally administered torcher ....all of which was agonizingly slow and painful beyond description. These professionals are trained, exported here sometimes for only a single body-dismantling episode (as it were) The same fate awaited anyone else who was brave enough to take to the corners harboring either cocaine, heroin, or similar mind-altering substance with a mind to sell. Enjoying years of unending wealth and partaking in luxuries beyond our wildest dreams .......it was, however, only a matter of time before his waterloo caught up with him. Crashing down the door, behind which sat the old man at a table surrounded by his trusted body guards, likely feeling his usual sense of utopia that he enjoys while sharing in the camaraderie of those he trusts ....is Mowed down with both bodyguards in total surprise .....shoulder supported firearm with a full clip of hollow-nose 45 caliber ammo fired from three masked gunmen who riddled the guards and the old man's body with a hail of bullets, leaving his shattered and bloody torso lying propped against a wall .... and believe it or not, his cigar was still impeccably intact as it were before the bullets tore through his frail body. This finally woke up the entire police department .... wherein soon it ultimately helped enormously in cutting deeply into the criminal activity of NY's mob empire ... All timely Followed by putting a debilitating crimp in the once skyrocketing drug in festered, Mob generated profits. .... Commercially generated Porn websites, depending on what one would believe to sustain themselves via the level of subscribers and paying customers the sites yield -- I'd have to say that based on seemingly existing rumors of noteworthy downturn concerning pay site's Status Quo ..... Perhaps then gloom and doom approaching on the horizon might not be a surprising visit. Mob activity as it existed in its latter heyday of huge returns on little efforts and easy living have come and mostly gone. An with it, their real fear of being gunned down one day while walking the dog or peacefully getting a haircut and shave at the shop of your favorite barber. Do we see a parallel here? Looking now at porn industry's growth, and based on it's vigorous popularity that has brought in unrecorded new stats housing info that anyone who's been immersed over but a shallow time in active porn participation, would have to say that porn, as it exist today, is well on its way to nowhere but up. And if the porn coffers actually do swell to record-breaking heights, I for one ain't gonna give a damned! Suppression gives me more to think about than all the above. A following thread now on tap for runner-up to this one is waiting in the wings. That will deal with another porn nemesis .....one that is already responsible for more currently sinking web sites than any others I can think of. Edited on Aug 06, 2014, 05:03pm Edited by Staff on Aug 06, 2014, 10:09pm (Khan: patched in text from user's other thread) | |
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| 08-06-14 06:06am - 3791 days | #2 | |
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AWpress (0)
Active Webmaster  Posts: 118 Registered: Nov 20, '12 Location: The Netherlands |
I think we're seeing a cultural epoch unfolding before us. It affects porn, sure, but also many other industries. When we first got the internet, the immediate opportunity was drastically expanded distribution capability, with virtually no overhead. Enter the era of the paysite. Along comes web 2.0; everyone becomes a content creator, everyone becomes a pirate. It is now easier than ever to publish your own material, it is now easier than ever to duplicate the published material of others. This is where we are now; we're seeing big studios slog against the tide, but the obstacles are basically insurmountable. No law, no policy, no model is going to change the fact that the vast majority of people don't want to pay for content, won't pay for it, and don't have to. So what then? Well that's where tube sites have come in, as something I expect to be a temporary measure, at least in their current form. Initially loaded with unlicenced content, tube sites have since adopted the affiliate, and ad-revenue model aggressively. Cam sites, in particular, seem to do better with tube ads than do paysites; perhaps because the psychology of live tipping brings up conversion. Why temporary? Well because the tube sites depend on the paysites for content, and the current situation isn't sustainable for a lot of paysite; currently porn consumers and tube sites win big, but paysites shoulder all the burdens and risk. That's because paysites only get paid when porn consumers purchase content from them directly, something they almost never do. Tube sites aren't going to pay for content up front either. It's hard to predict where the industry is going, but I hesitate to indulge in doom and gloom. There is a greater demand, and supply, for porn than ever; the industry is just having trouble matching those two in the optimal way. Some clever fox will come up with a better way, and make a lot of money doing so. Actually, there'll likely be quite a few of these clever foxes. All that said, though, I think we can reason out the future to a certain extent; the subscription paysite model seems to be ailing. It suits a minority of porn consumers very well, and will always be around in some capacity for that reason, but is decreasingly viable for the mass market. Today's porn consumer is accustomed to incredible diversity of content, in low quality, at zero cost; trading the incredible range of content available for free, for higher quality content, isn't enough to get most people to pay. For this reason, I think the eventual model we arrive upon isn't going to be a consumer->studio relationship (as it is with studio paysites). Rather, if people are to pay, they're more likely to pay an aggregator of some sort, in return for diversity and high quality content. They'll probably pay in an unexpected way, too; as none of the current payment models are exploding. What does that mean for the studios of tomorrow? Well we might see the rise of the b2b (business to business) studio in porn, similar to how studios run in film and video games: porn studios may focus 100% on the production of content, and not even bother touching the publication and marketing thereof (which would be handled instead by some kind of publisher, or aggregator). Consider how you might buy a video game via Steam (a content aggregator/marketplace), the game might be published by EAGames (who paid for it to be created, and put it on steam, among other places), yet the game may have been developed by an independent studio working for EAGames on contract (you can't even buy the game directly off the studio). It's possible tube sites will evolve into this role, or that they'll wither and make way for the new guard. | |
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| 08-06-14 08:54am - 3791 days | #3 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Society as a whole is always and ever changing. Fifty years ago everyone smoked, and for the previous several millennia this was true, and then modern man so called civilized ( use that word very lightly ) by science decided smoking was taboo. I can remember riding in the read window of our sedan with the widows up and parents smoking. That changed. Today we have porn, porn was around before it was called porn. I am sure the first porn was born by Voyeurism. Some guy 5000 years ago gave a guy a goat watch his wife bathe or something. Point is somethings you cant slow down, and carnal desires will be here long after we are all gone. How those desires are met is a whole other issue. The reality of sex robots is nearing every year. Porn once downloaded in bytes is downloaded in gigs. Tube sites, I think the day of Download sites is is limited. Porn has been a mainstay the last ten years people pay, people download. I am sure the sales of tubesocks and hand lotions is 500x what it was ten years ago. I think a better form of interaction with porn is where it will be, my guess is more choosing scenes and characterless material and replaced with CGI actors that will look real and you can design and load your own porn movie. Imagine logging on to XXXXX.com creating a moving with Ginger Lynn and Madison Ivy? In the future there will be more custom porn, and less billions of downloads. As AW stated, stream is already doing allot of what porn may end up doing. Creating a fantasy world that members create to watch. Since 2007 | |
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| 08-06-14 01:06pm - 3791 days | #4 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
x Edited on Apr 19, 2023, 01:32pm | |
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| 08-06-14 02:12pm - 3791 days | #5 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Someday the drives we all have may be worth a ton of cash. Since 2007 | |
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| 08-06-14 04:55pm - 3791 days | #6 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Notice to all who wasted their time trying to make sense of this pile of crap. Everything you see was never intended to be posted on this thread. I was in the process of editing a large volume of text .... all while previewing it at the same time. I became too tired to continue and stopped, intending to finish later. ..... Well its been four days and ..... All of a sudden just now I come on the PU forum after the long absence and I find all this non-sense looking me in the face. I'm embarrassed to the bone. For goodness sake please don't judge this as my normal effort. | |
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| 08-06-14 07:34pm - 3791 days | #7 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I no longer think that we are going down the "tubes" as you put it because I think we are already there now. The porn industry as I knew it is no more and what is left is a mere shadow of it past greatness. The few remaining studios that manage to carve a tiny bit of profit do so by offering a subpar product that fewer and fewer people are willing to pay for so the writing is on the wall that they will also suffer the fate of their now deceased competitors. I don't know about you but when was the last time you saw a porn video that was so good that it took your breath away? I know I haven't seen anything like that in years. Porn companies no longer put out quality stuff. It's not a lack of desire but a lack of money. They simply can't afford it anymore. Tube don't just suck money out of the pocket of producers. It also puts it in the pocket of a very small group of individuals. I don't know if you are aware but most studios don't have a tube site. Most of the major tube sites are all owned by Manwin who is now called Mindgeek and we all know what scumbags these people are considered to be by almost everyone in the porn industry. They are the people who more or less created the Tube Site system by which most companies started to lose huge amounts of money and then Manwin swooped in to either buy their library of movies or the studio itself. In the end it's about the same. You have one gigantic monster eating all of the competitors but not improving the system. I was never a big fan of their movies but Digital Playground used to be known has a leader in the industry. Has anyone heard about them since Manwin bought them and fired almost everyone? Where are all their contract players? DP had to be making huge amounts of money to be able to hire multiples contract girls. I wish I could be positive and say that the future looks bright but if I see a light at the end of the tunnel then I know it's a train and I can get out of it's way or get crushed under it's wheels. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 08-07-14 04:20am - 3790 days | #8 | |
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AWpress (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 118 Registered: Nov 20, '12 Location: The Netherlands |
I always thought what Manwin did was kind of clever. They swooped in, bought up all the tube sites, upped the quality of the videos to put pressure on paysites, then started buying up the paysites (who'd fallen on hard times as a result of Manwin's actions). Then, they reduced the quality of the tubes again, to funnel members back to the paysites they purchased. It reads like a Lex Luthor scheme. | |
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| 08-07-14 12:18pm - 3790 days | #9 | |
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biker (0)
Active User  Posts: 632 Registered: May 03, '08 Location: milwaukee, wi |
Is this why when I go to a tube site I see a video that looks more like an advertisement for the site it came from then an actual stolen video? I'm serious. I watched a video that started with a advertisement for the site. So the tube sites are actually being used to draw people to the some legit websites. What I have discovered, that never seems to get mentioned are "Porn Forums". You can go to them without being a member and do a search to find a specific video or porn star and download it so you have a permanent copy of your own. No need to visit a tube site to view it. Also it is complete. Whether it is a full porn film or a picture set, you get it complete. Tube sites typically only show you a portion of a video. These forums are growing in number, just like the tube sites and have a lot more to offer. If this causes porn sites to collapse, where will they get their material? Somewhere a point has to be reached where websites can still exist or all porn will disappear from the internet. If it is a tube site or forum, they need legit websites as a source of material. Warning Will Robinson | |
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| 08-08-14 02:30am - 3789 days | #10 | |
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jook (0)
Active User  Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
I thought you finally flipped your lid, haha. But forget about taking it back. What you say on the internet is carved in stone and your heir's heirs will still be answering for your verbiage for millenniums to come. [actually, I thought your post was fascinating, though I sure did have a hard time seeing the analogy to the subject.].
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| 08-08-14 07:04am - 3789 days | #11 | |||
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AWpress (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 118 Registered: Nov 20, '12 Location: The Netherlands |
Yep, this is promotional content. After some conflict, the major tube sites have gone 'legit', and feature primarily promotional content given to them by sites (and link to the paysite in question on the video page). They still have user-uploaded, unlicenced content, but they take it down when prodded to do so.
Not to say fighting piracy is waste of time for paysites; nobody has the realistic goal of eradicating piracy at this stage of the game. Rather, by keeping the pressure on pirates, content creators hope to make downloading unlicenced content an unreliable, relatively frustrating exercise (with sites and pages constantly going up and down). Additionally, the pirates do half the work- whilst some pirates share files just for the love of it, many more try to make a buck; they often do this with ads, adware, malware, and spammy crap - at the same time, they often reduce the quality of the content they're sharing, so it's more efficient to share. This significantly damages the user experience on their site, enhancing the value of just paying for content.
Porn producers are unlikely to collapse entirely; it's more like a war of attrition that grinds against their bottom line. Neither side is going to win, but it costs content creators more than the pirates to keep on fighting. Still, no matter what, there will always be people creating content, for fun or for profit. Conversely, as long as we have a free and open internet, there will always be people sharing content. Neither the pirates, nor the content creators will ever be wiped out. More likely, and indeed already transpiring, is that for-profit content creators will move away from trying to napalm piracy out of existence with lobbying and legislation; and instead start adopting inventive new business models that aren't as exposed to IP infringement (or aren't exposed at all). For instance, live camshows are immune to piracy, pretty much. A lot of online journalism, music videos and films have embedded, native advertising (the brand of car your favourite popstar or action hero drives isn't just a random creative decision, it's a bought and paid for business decision). Porn is normally on the forefront of industry shifts like this, but I'd say this time porn is not. Way back when, big media freaked out about VCRs and audio cassettes, claiming that allowing the public to record, play, and share media would destroy the industry. It was obviously hyperbole, but back then one of the biggest supporters for legitimacy of VCRs was porn; who stood to benefit immensely from a world where you didn't need to go to a cinema to watch porn. Still, lots of sites *are* experimenting with different models and strategies. We do, at abbywinters.com; for instance, we now have pay-per-scene, which allows members to make a one-time payment for content, then retain access to it forever in a digital locker hosted by us. This is an example of moving the money away from a transaction for access to content, and towards a service (in this case, a convenient, online, collection of HD porn). We're also introducing live shows soon, with abbywinters.com 'playdate'; another example of shifting posture to make IP infringement less of a problem. There's still plenty that needs to be tried, and done, but many content creators are stepping up to the plate. Not just them, wider participants in the industry have identified the largely unexploited, upcoming niches, and are also working hard to place themselves at the right spot for when the wave crests. That's essentially what Manwin is trying to do, I suppose; the folks here at TBP are putting a lot of hard work and risk into a bold new model that might work better for consumers and creators, too. Interesting times in an interesting business, no? | |||
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| 08-08-14 02:49pm - 3789 days | #12 | |
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biker (0)
Active User Posts: 632 Registered: May 03, '08 Location: milwaukee, wi |
A lot of of businesses changed do to the computer and the internet. I was a mechanical draftsman for decades and started on the old drafting board with straightedge and pencil and along comes Computer Aided Design and the speed of drafting increased so a company could reduce their staff of draftsman by half. I lucked out and was able to learn the new process and keep working, but it was not easy. The big change came, when it went from basic 2D to 3D. 3D was a major leap and required intense education to create the virtual models and then use them to create drawings. Again I was able to to get the education for this, but it was vastly more complex to create a model with intricate shapes and also give it physical attributes so engineers could use it to run physical analysis. 20 years ago computers were just used to manage inventory and balance sheets, now every aspect of a business requires computer knowledge. If you don't keep ahead of these advances, then you are doomed to being put in the trash heap. Not since the invention of the car has anything changed our lives like the computer. A home without a computer is putting any child's education in harm. If you don't graduate from high school without computer skills you are going to be far behind those who have spent countless hours working with this tool. It is constant education; during your youth and continuing into whatever profession you may have chosen to follow. Like the car, the computer has opened a world we only dreamed of. Keeping ahead of the curve is constant or you will lose. Reading your post tells me your industry is doing just that. I'm sure my fellow PUers are pleased you're finding ways to stay ahead of the curve. We are about to move ahead here. This site is about to go through a major change. It will be interesting to explore when it finally comes on line. I hope it will bring more business your way and keep legit websites flourishing. That is the goal I see here. Warning Will Robinson | |
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| 01-10-15 10:31am - 3634 days | #13 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User  Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
The tube problem is a great example of the "Prisoner's dilemma." The prisoner's dilemma is illustrated by a situation where two prisoners who conspired to commit a crime are being interrogated and offered a deal for giving up their co-conspirator. If neither one gives the other up, they will both be prosecuted. If one gives the other up, the snitch will receive a plea deal, and the other will be prosecuted. If both give each other up, they will each receive a longer sentence. In other words, if one prisoner acts out of self interest, he will benefit and the other will suffer, but it both act out of self interest, then both will suffer more. It's the same problem with porn sites and tubes. Each site benefits by putting some free content on tubes. By getting their name out there with the free samples, they drive more sales. The problem is that there are so many paysites out there, that when they all put content up on tubes, there is so much free content on the tubes that most customers have had their fill long before they are ready to make a purchase. Oil producers faced a similar Prisoner's dilemma dilemma as they tried to undercut each others prices, and they solved it temporarily by creating OPEC, a cartel where they collaborated on price setting and agreed not to undercut each other. Unfortunately, the porn industry is far too large and decentralized for sites to collectively agree to reign in their free content on tubes. Actually, something unusual has happened instead. One company, Manwin, has acquired such a large network of tubes, that it can flood the market with it's competitor's content for free, while selling their own paysites. We'll have to see how it plays out, but it sill seems like a game where everyone loses. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | |
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