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| Porn Users Forum » Where have all the flowers gone? |
| 1-18 of 18 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 06-22-13 08:19pm - 4201 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
Where have all the flowers gone? I just happened to notice that Secret Virgin is dead/gone. The site hadn't updated in years, but it still had lots of photosets of really cute girls. I wonder how many other sites have died in the last few years, since the downturn in porn? | |
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| 06-23-13 05:26am - 4200 days | #2 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^I think that the number must be gigantic. Mind you it's quite possible that all of the pics are still out there but on another site. The problem is finding said site(s). Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-23-13 06:04am - 4200 days | #3 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Everybody's talkin' about a downturn in Porn. Where're they getting this? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction because I still see it as a burgeoning enterprise whose coffers are splitting at the seams with money. Somebody's post I read makes more sense, and comes closer to the problem in his assessment of what's turning the guys playing by the rules hair Grey. And that has to do with the growing Torrent sites .... and others cropping up with different names who're jumping onto this new idea of "hosting".... so far only a practice of stealin' from the rich and givin' to the poor. But we know how that goes. They're called parasites by the rule-players ... and rightly so. But I think they have a handle on digging into the obscene profits heretofore controlled by the status quo. | |
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| 06-23-13 10:41am - 4200 days | #4 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^I think a large part of why you think porn is not in a down turn is because you keep seeing new porn sites popping up on a regular basis. I can see why you would think that but the problem is that although there are new sites. None of them is actually offering new content. In case you want some examples then take a look at TBP's "New Porn Sites" section. I'm skipping 1. Number 2: Jaden James site. I can't tell you if the content is exclusive but I can tell you that it's not all that recent. The latest video is a Christmas one so it's at least 6 months old. She has a couple with Mr.Marcus so those are definitely over a year old because he's mister Syphilis and has been banned from the industry for over a year now. Number 3: My little plaything. It's all leased material that is at least 2 years and older. That's a 30$ site where there is nothing new and worse the content can be found elsewhere for less money. Number 4: Compton Booty. All leased material that is more than 2 years old. It's also 30$. Number 5: Ass America. All leased material that is more than 2 years old and it's 30$. Number 6: Staxxx. That one is actually the most insulting of all because it basically give you access to all of the above sites for the same 30$ price. In fact all of the listed sites do the same thing but these people instead of paying for new content simply create new sites that no one asked for. Number 7: Skin Diamond VIP. It's another solo model site that's part of the Puba network. It's 30$ but you again get access to the entire network. I can't be certain how much of the content is exclusive so there's a good chance some of it is. Number 8, 9, 10 and 11 are all part of JAV HD and aren't adding anything new since you can get access to all of these through your JAV HD membership. Worse you can get access for 20$ through JAVHD while it's 20$ for these sites. Number 12. Another site that isn't adding anything new since the content appears to have been taken from the site Juliette captured. Not sure exactly when the stuff was done but it's at least 3 years old. Number 13. This one might be lucky number 13 because it actually might be exclusive content. Not sure about this one. It's also a decent 20$. Number 14 and Number 15 are part of the same network and although they are a new site. The content has to be a couple of years old now because the bulk of the performers have been in and already out of the industry. The content might be exclusive but frankly these are all well known Eastern European models that have shot for most of the Eastern European sites so not too many people will want to fork over 30$ for content that you probably have in a different form. I could go on but you can see that although we keep seeing new sites. We don't actually see a whole lot of new stuff and the sites that used to produce porn like crazy are now down to releasing less and less new stuff. Just look at 21sextury. They are now stuck at having to use older content as updates and the bulk of their older sites stopped updating months if not years ago. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-23-13 04:43pm - 4200 days | #5 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Damned, Pat....... you never cease to amaze me with your wealth of knowledge about what's going on in the business of porn ..... or mainstream movie industry stuff coming out of Hollywood for that matter -- as evidenced by your keeping pace with PU's master observer of filmdom affairs, and La-La's Journalistic Guru reporting on what's hot an' what's not going on in movie news and lives of our stars: Referring to who else but Our esteemed, needs-no-introduction, one an' only .... Da man > lk2fireone.  | |
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| 06-23-13 05:03pm - 4200 days | #6 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User  Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I don't blame "new" sites with old material setting up shop, because it's what VideoBox have been doing for years. Recycling is fine, and there's still more new stuff out there than you can hope to see, even if you spend all day and all night viewing. There's a lot of the new heartcore stuff, 21 Sextury, and Teen Mega World still do updates, there's Kink, Diesel, Team Skeet have a couple of new sites with new material, which doesn't mean times aren't hard in porn, but there's still the proverbial boatload of money in porn because there always has been. Sex and porn sells. There are too many sites doing the same thing, not that I mind that. I don't think I could realistically watch most of the material I have downloaded through from beginning to end, without shutting myself away in a room for the next 20 years and doing nothing but viewing porn, and I consider myself to be selective. That's without downloading any more. Dodgy practices don't help either. The whole industry gets tarred with the same brush when you hear of people being ripped off, but more and more ex reputable names are now using pre checked cross selling and other dirty tricks. Sites are going bust but there's a recession on. Even in recession there's enough money to be made from porn to enable quite a few to still get their snouts in the trough, but it isn't an infinite trough. It's a shame to see some go, but there's still room for 20 reasonably good porn sites. How many are there in the A-Z? Too many would be my answer. I'm with Graymane on this one. I'm not feeling too sorry for the porn industry at this moment. My instinct tells me they're doing just fine, earning a boatload. Let the healthy ones with quality survive, let the weak, those with out of date camerawork, lighting, and material, and those with dodgy practices go to the wall. I wont lose any sleep over that. Addtition - Here's another thing. I have done my "you've never had it so good porn fans," thing a number of times, but it still very much applies. There's tons of it out there at ridiculously low prices, and porn sites have been making a bundle because they can sell subscriptions to so many on the internet. There's too much negativity, scaremongering, and whingeing. It's just porn, it will always be with us, but we are passing through an age where never before has there been so much readily available, at so little. Even if we lose 90% of internet porn sites, that leaves more than enough. In fact I would quite like to see porn become short again in a way because some people (and I include myself in this) have become too blase about porn, too fussy, too jaded, too over exposed to it, and whinge far too much. Edited on Jun 23, 2013, 05:22pm | |
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| 06-23-13 06:48pm - 4200 days | #7 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^We see things differently because I do mind when new sites set up shop and all they have to offer is old recycled content because unless you are someone like me who pays attention than you may get fooled into joining only to fin out that you have been cheated out of a lot of money. VB is not the same thing as a new site offering older content because VB has always done that so no one joining that site is expecting exclusive content. I'd also like to add that VB's join price is a joke compared to almost every other porn site. TMW does have new updates but they now upload a photo shoot prior to uploading the accompanying video so that they can appear to have more updates than they truly have. I'd also like to add that I find that the newer stuff is not always as good as the stuff they used to have. Let's take look at Team Skeet. Aside from the fact that they have one of the worse preview section that I've had the displeasure of using. They added the following sites in no particular order. Exxxtra Small: Launched Nov 2012. TBP claims 17 videos as of May and I count 20 on the only page you can see pics. If the site was actually updating with one new video each week then you should have a minimum of 25 videos. Rub-A-Teen: Launched Oct 2012. TBP claims 43 videos as of May but I count 76 on the only page you can see anything. Add the fact that this is all leased material that can be found on many other sites. Teen Mega World being one of them. Step Siblings: Launched in May 2013. TBP did a review in May and they had only 6 videos attached to this site but less than a month later and I now count 48. Don't know if they have added that many or if it's a BS preview section. Since there is no real preview section then someone who's a member will have to verify the count. I did check another review sites info on this site and he claims only 7 videos as of June 4. Teens do porn: launched in Apr 2013. TBP claims only 7 videos as of May but I count 27 on the preview section. I checked another review site because they did a review this month and their count is 8 videos. Teeny Black: launched in Jan 2013. TBP claims 14 videos as of May and I counted 17. I believe that 17 is the correct number because this site has a moderately decent preview section. Of course The number of scene is still smaller than if they truly added one new scene each week. I can't confirm if any of the above sites actually offer exclusive content except for Rub-A-Teen which I know is all leased. I wish I could say that I don't feel bad for the industry but I do. Although I'm sure that some people are still pocketing millions of dollars. The vast majority of them can't even earn a living let alone a decent one doing porn. We are not talking about the owners of the big companies but the performers, cameraman, makeup artist and what not that are the key player in the industry. These are the people that have to work in other industries to actually make a living. Now for the people behind the scene that may not be as big a deal because there is usually enough work for them but it's another story for the performers. Where can they make a living? If you guessed escorting/prostitution then you are a winner. While these girls are doing their escorting then they aren't available to do porn and sooner or later they leave the industry and simply do escorting. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-24-13 06:11am - 4199 days | #8 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
This wont come as a brutal shock, but a few earning millions while the rest earn a crust, is the norm. That sums up most companies, industry, and life. Porn is no exception. I agree about those setting up new sites with old material in a way. You could say it is yet another dirty trick to dodge when signing up. It doesn't concern me that much personally, because I am very thorough when deciding on who to join, but we do want to see the best survive. I don't blame them for trying and I find that practice less dishonest than pre checked cross selling. It's not that I don't see the current position as less healthy than three years ago, but porn is one of the few constants, one of the few money earners, no matter how bad times are. The trough isn't infinite, and a few going broke doesn't concern me. The industry is contracting, but it's up to the porn user to make sure we support the right ones, and ensure they survive, rather than the dirty tricks con artists. We shouldn't be seeing tons of new material at $9.99 and expect to see everyone in the porn industry a millionaire. We need a decent price for decent material. As a porn lover I obviously love the low prices, but they cannot and shouldn't last. There will be less new material available in the future, which isn't a bad thing. Consider this: One update on Team Skeet would have cost me $60-100 on video 30 years ago. The quality would have been crap too. There is a little to be concerned about, but much to be positive about. Edited on Jun 24, 2013, 06:15am | |
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| 06-24-13 07:58am - 4199 days | #9 | ||||
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
True and that's not what I'm trying to say. It wasn't that long ago that doing porn was a decent way of earning money so anyone working in porn could actually make a living with just doing porn. That is no longer the case for 99% of the people associated with porn.
The problem is that many people are not as savvy as you and I and they don't find out their mistake until after they have signed up. The 30$ they spend on a deceptive site is probably 30$ they won't spend on more deserving sites so that is one month where those good sites have to find the missing money they could have had. My view is also different than yours in regards to the pre-checked offers because those anyone can see when signing up. The same can't be said for crappy content.
The problem with a few companies going broke is that you would think the crappy ones are the ones to go but it's in fact that good ones that go out of business because they are the ones paying the highest to offer the best kind of porn. I'd rather have 10 good companies vs 100 crappy ones but the trend is actually the opposite and that's in large part due to pirating. Afterall if you are going to steal something then you pick the best stuff. Of course the main culprit is and always was us users. As long as so many people don't mind using Tube and Torrent sites then more and more companies are going to go broke.
We agree on this one because I've bought plenty of movies in my life time and I can now get for 30$ what would have easily cost me hundreds a decade ago. Long live the Brown Coats. | ||||
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| 06-24-13 10:06am - 4199 days | #10 | |||
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
We don't agree with this one completely. Flooding the market with DIY guy and a camera stuff may take money out of the pockets of others, but the market tends to adjust. It is merely natural selection. Plenty earn a decent living out of it, even if they don't, once again market forces will dictate. A lot of people have to take two jobs nowadays to make ends meet. Depends on your standard of living and whether you have expensive taste. You're much more worried about this than I am.
My view on pre checked cross sells tends to be similar to that concerning new sites with old material. What they spend in one place they wont be able to spend in another. It's why free sites and tube sites don't bother me that much. In fact I think they are excellent for seeing what is available at which site. Go there and find out the site where the best material is available. That's not to say that free material doesn't bleed some money from the porn industry, I just find the effect to be wildly exaggerated and over estimated, so we don't agree on that one.
Again we disagree on this one to a certain extent. It's not that there isn't some truth in the argument, it's just wildly exaggerated imo. Anyone interested in quality and who has the money will be going to quality sites, paying and downloading. If they don't have the money they will download for free, but they were never likely to pay anyway. In fact free porn site have generated my interest in some sites. They are a brlliant and usseful guide for me. I tend to think people are over negative. Look at what we have available now. It's a paradise of porn. Hmm come to think of it I do use free porn forums now more that I use PU to enable me to choose between the wheat and the chaff, however I do always use the TBP/PU link. I've used the argument about pre checked cross selling before but it's worth repeating: If customers get tricked they not only blow their money in one place, they will be wary of ever trusting a site with their details again. I am not going to pretend that pre checked cross selling or regional discrimination or any dirty tricks are armageddon for the porn industry, they are just one factor. At least there's some action on the forum. Edited on Jun 24, 2013, 10:38am | |||
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| 06-24-13 02:43pm - 4199 days | #11 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
That is a matter of preference. If you are talking hardcore video that may be true. If you are talking decent on-topic softcore photography it is an absolute famine. Nothing new for months for me. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 06-24-13 04:50pm - 4199 days | #12 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I always thought softcore photography was better than it's hardcore cousin. Maybe it's only great for hardcore fans at the moment. I didn't think it was that bad in the softcore area Capn, and obviously porn fans like Messmer are left out in the cold too. I like mainstream hardcore so am catered for magnificently, which is why I'm puzzled about some of the negativity. It would be nice to think fans of some of those uncovered niches outside mainstream, will be catered for eventually. | |
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| 06-24-13 06:37pm - 4199 days | #13 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
We were catered to at one time, Squirrel, but all the sites that appealed to us have become "harder" over a period of time which means less teasing and more sex. The Capn is optimistic that the pendulum will swing back, but I am not so sure since the new target group (roughly 18 - 30) tends to prefer action to tease, and it is they who make up the bulk of the subscribers. I bet there are porn users already who say: "What the heck is a camisole, or a garter belt! " Or: "Why would anyone wear panties if they cover up that I want to see?" SIGH ..... so how can a good, lengthy, erotic strip ever come back if the present generation goes to bed with girls who wear long, cute but bland cotton t-shirts?  | |
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| 06-24-13 07:12pm - 4199 days | #14 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
True about the majority, but if there are enough who are into a certain niche it's reasonably likely someone will come along and cater to that niche. Fortunes have been made by people looking for a niche and then catering to it. I think it is bound to come along, as long as there's a market, even if it's a minority. Even a minority can mean a lot of money online, because that can still mean a lot of people. I have to say I thought softcore fans had a lot of material to choose from. I suppose I am lucky in having reasonably broad taste, and quite liking mainstream. I think some of the stuff I have seen this year and last from big mainstream names has been little short of sensational. Hang on, isn't a camisole an umbrella? You kinky bastard. | |
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| 06-24-13 09:01pm - 4199 days | #15 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
I'm not a psychologist or have a firm grasp of the porn market, but I think what messmer wrote makes sense. Old-time softcore tease and lingerie are specialty markets, and most sites are not going to serve a narket/audience that is so limited in numbers. Which is why the sites that might have served that niche have tried to broaden their appeal by adding hardcore. One field that is gaining popularity is the glamcore/heartcore area, which is a romanticized version of hardcore. And most glamcore doesn't put much emphasis on tease or lingerie. Or on story either, to be truthful. They give an impression of some story, but the plot is implied, not shown. | |
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| 06-24-13 10:37pm - 4199 days | #16 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
We still seem to be falling down the chasm between non-nude & midcore.  Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 06-25-13 05:22am - 4198 days | #17 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I think genuine softcore still has enough supporters to be supported. I thought there was a lot around but it's something I don't collect. For me there are some great softcore photos on TeenCoreClub and 21Sextury, but they are hardcore networks. I remember collecting old mags like Mayfair, which had some good softcore material, but the airbrushing was always irritating. Possibly that is what a lot of softcore fans want, something close to that original softcore men's magazine look. | |
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| 06-25-13 10:26am - 4198 days | #18 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Nope, not me, Squirrel. I hate the air brushed look and I don't like the Mayfair, Playboy, look. And, yes, there are many sites that are basically softcore .. basically because lately b/g has pushed its way in, and they would be tolerable if they were basically EROTIC, SENSUOUS and TEASING. Trouble is they really don't know what people like the Cap'n and I want. For instance, at one site I had been constantly complaining that the strip sets did not contain enough lingerie .. well, somebody must have listened because they now feature a few sets now and then where the model will wear nylons and garter belt, or a flimsy nightie etc. Trouble is they START the set with that while WE would like them to start with the woman fully clothed. Lingerie fetishists might be satisfied but those of us who yearn for a slow tease containing erotic lingerie are still left out in the cold. As someone else said: "The excitement is in the journey!" They seem to have forgotten that in their eagerness to please those who like their money shot (nude, wide open) they took all the anticipation out of their offerings by now featuring a handful of clothed that is followed by hundreds of almost identical nude shots. Edited on Jun 25, 2013, 10:31am | |
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