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| Porn Users Forum » How "Out There" Are You? |
| 1-27 of 27 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 03-01-12 11:36am - 4679 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
How "Out There" Are You? To everyone who clicked on this thread hoping to read salacious tales of peoples personal perversions (the P to the 3 principal ... does that make it the P4 rule?) I apologize. No, instead this thread focuses on the fact that Ides of March have come early this year. Today marks the 1st day that Google introduces it's new "privacy" rules which are really anything but that and that maybe today is the day we should start thinking about taking more control over our passive web lives. Basically, the universal Google has revamped it's privacy rules and consolidated everything it had into one main policy that everyone has to follow. Basically, the new rules allow them to collect and store even more personal information about you: (For a good article with links discussing this in depth, go here). From a business perspective, I don't really blame Google. Collecting more info about you makes them more money because they can brag to advertisers about all the good inside stuff they know about you. It also makes life easier for your everyday tasks; Google's personalized search program is evidence of this. It also allows integrated platforms for gathering personal info (they track your Android use, Google docs use, gmail and other stuff) and for making life easier for the lazy masses. In other words, Big Brother has come not in the form of the government but in the form of a company offering to make your life easier and sporting a friendly "First, Do No Evil" corporate motto. Most people don't really care about all this since they don't see a direct impact on their lives. However, being someone who does engage in some risk management work, you have to think about the consequences. One of my favorite punching bags is former Sec. of Defense Donald Rumsfeld who did have this memorable line about dealing with strategic situations: "[T]here are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns; there are things we do not know we don't know." So, you know their taking your web info (almost all of it) and offering to target you with more advertising. What you know you don't know is who they are giving / selling this info to and what exactly they are going to do with it beyond some innocent advertising banners. The unknown unknown stuff is what the hell might happen with your personal knowledge in the future (hackers, government tracking, identity theft, whatever your perverted mind can conjour up). If you know that your being used like the web tool you are, then why put up with it? Personally, I'm in the process of migrating away from Google and taking privacy a little more seriously. What I've learned is that there's a lot of good stuff out there that does the same job as all the Google offerings but with better privacy. Here's the quick primer: 1. Quite Google. A very good explanation of how to it is here. I am currently trying Icloud for email and documents and the Wolfram Alpha search engine as mentioned in the article and both are recommended. 2. Find out who is tracking you all the time (how "out there" are you). Collusion is new cool tool that lets you visually see how you are tracked every time you go from site to site (go here for more info, do run the demo to see how it works). The program can't block all the tracking but it does show how integrated web sites are in terms of who is tracking you and sharing data about you. 3. Find some useful cookie cutters, aka programs that destroy tracking cookies and cut down on web advertising while you cruise the internet seas (I only use adblock plus with Mozilla and cookie destroying program that runs everytime I finish a surfing session but I am looking for a good real time cookie limiter program). 4. Sleep better at night knowing that Mark Zuckerberg's soon to be billions coming from Google's IPO offering won't be subsidized by you. Edited on Mar 01, 2012, 11:39am | |
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| 03-01-12 12:48pm - 4679 days | #2 | |
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t9chome (0)
Active User Posts: 78 Registered: Oct 30, '10 Location: usa |
I opted out of the Google history last night by deleting my Google history. It is "supposed" to keep from writing to the history file from now on when I search with Google. I read on another forum that you won't be able to from today forward. Thanks for the post Wittyguy. We all (esp. us PU's) need to be vigilant about keeping our personal matters strictly private. The governments & corporations want to impose on your life and freedoms so you will become a placid serf to their wishes. Keep your eyes & ears open and vote for candidates that vow to preserve your freedoms, not for the ones the media wants you to vote for. If they fail their task of freedom preservation, vote them out. | |
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| 03-01-12 01:06pm - 4679 days | #3 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
I have just deleted my google account in response to this. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 03-01-12 01:32pm - 4679 days | #4 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User  Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I don't have an account with google, but I use their search engine. I have always presumed they were able to trace my steps without having an account and signing in. It's easy to use the google search engine without having an account, but as far as I know, it's still the same lack of privacy. Or does not having an account protect you? I have always presumed the answer is no. Never used them for mail but use their maps, which are very useful for finding directions. | |
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| 03-01-12 02:32pm - 4679 days | #5 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
It is not so much that. I was just doing it on principle as a protest. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 03-01-12 02:47pm - 4679 days | #6 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I think what happens capn, is that the information is stored if you don't have an account, but isn't supposed to be directly linked to you. At least that is what is supposed to happen in theory. Even if you're unregistered, I think they can still trace all the data back to you. The Canadian government (under pretence of stopping paedophiles) is intending to force disclosure of all your online data whenever they wish. | |
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| 03-01-12 02:53pm - 4679 days | #7 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Hey, I am only trying to do what I can. I encourage other google users to do the same! Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 03-01-12 03:47pm - 4679 days | #8 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
Yes, let's hope this loses them some customers. I followed one of Wittyguy's links concerning how to stop using google, and found Bing mentioned. I was wondering what effect it would have if everyone starts googling Bing. | |
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| 03-01-12 05:30pm - 4679 days | #9 | |
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hodayathink (0)
Active User Posts: 312 Registered: Mar 27, '09 Location: Illinois |
I've said this over and over again to anyone that will listen: I don't care. I know exactly what they're tracking, and I don't care that they have it. I don't care if they know what I watch on YouTube. I don't care if they know what websites I've been to. I don't really care if they know the contents of my e-mails. And not in a "I'm not doing anything wrong or illegal, so I have nothing to worry about" kind of way. I've used Google's Web History to find sites that I visited through Google searches but forgot to bookmark and needed to return to. I've used my YouTube history to find videos friends had shared with me so that I could share them with other people. I've actually clicked on the ads featured next to my e-mail before, and found them useful. All these things people are "worried" about them doing, they've been doing for years (the actual change is that instead of these different pieces of information being segmented parts of the same Google account, they are all now kept together). And Google doesn't "give" the information to any advertiser. As someone who is actually also signed up for AdSense (I was running it on a blog that I wrote), advertisers submit the ads (and possibly the target demographic that they'd like to see it), websites sign up saying that they're willing to display those ads, and Google decides what ads will run on what site without telling the advertiser or the webmaster much of anything. So the advertisers never see your personal information unless you give it to them personally after viewing and clicking on the ad. And if I were going to worry about hackers, I'd unplug my computer from the internet. Short of that, there's pretty much nothing as a user that you can do to stop a determined hacker. Slow down, yes, but stop, no. | |
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| 03-01-12 11:34pm - 4679 days | #10 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
You are missing my point, hod. What I am objecting to & trying to protest against is the Macchivellian, Big Brother attitude of a very influential worldwide business. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 03-02-12 01:55am - 4678 days | #11 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
They are making a ton of money, but like all multi national companies, they want more and more, and don't have any conscience about what they have to do to achieve that. Only place to hit them is in their pockets. | |
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| 03-02-12 02:40am - 4678 days | #12 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I always assumed they already did everything that they now admit to, and more. For me, Google's advertising is always chronically wide of the mark and what they don't have any personal data about me anyway. My searches, the sites I visit, the things I buy etc. isn't going to give away anything I consider private. Supermarkets are already doing the same sort of thing, as are websites and many other businesses. Add to that the exchange of information between different businesses and even governments and I don't see how you can fight it. I don't see that consumers will ever be organised enough to hit multinationals in their pockets. Just look at some of the scandals with Apple (slave labour, dodgy business practices, abuse of developers, misuse of customers' data, etc.) and people are still willing to pay over the odds for their services and devices. In terms of data privacy, I think it's already too late.  Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 03-02-12 12:35pm - 4678 days | #13 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
I think Ed and Hod do make valid points. It's easy to not care, most of the the time I don't. I rarely click on ads but have done so occasionally and most of surfing is innocuous and not of much help to advertisers since I'm not a very loyal customer to anyone. And, yes, we are already a good ways down the proverbial road to hell in terms of lost privacy. What gives me pause though is that all this info is being collected without any overarching rules other than "cash is king", meaning you don't know who or what is happening with your info. More importantly, as computer alogorithms and processors get better this info can lead to a very complete picture of who you are. Maybe not today but that future is very near. Frankly, without knowing who might get access to "me" and how that info will be used I am concerned. I'm not trying to make a purely ideological stand. I know that we are all going to be more public as time goes by, there's no way around that unless you suddenly go full on Amish with your lifestyle. Nor do I trust that government regulation will solve much (lawyers and lobbyists get paid to take care of that). I guess my point is why make it easy for them when you don't know what your getting in return. Yeah, I get access to the web but does that mean I have to surrender all my on-line activity information to some corporate behemouth? I want some something more than what I'm currently getting before I'll give it all up for capitalism. | |
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| 03-02-12 03:08pm - 4678 days | #14 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
Here's the kind of scenario that bugs me, and it's not implausible. A profile of you is built based on your web surfing (include computers, smart phones, etc.) -- everything you type and everything you text and possibly everything you say along with what you browse. Your profile is among the eventual billions that will be up for sale to whomever is interested. To make it easier to trove your data, key words are searched for and a corpus of how you put those words into context is created. Red flags are displayed next to the juicy bits. This information, if found not to the liking of a health insurer, a prospective employer, etc. is then used to deny you coverage, deny you a job, deny you a promotion, deny you credit, deny you a discount, etc. It could sometimes even be used as a flimsy pretext for denying people such things as specific medical procedures or mortgage interest rates. Sure, there may be no relationship between what you said and what you need, but it will be up to you -- little, solitary you -- to fight and win in this overwhelming system of data collection and abuse. That's the kind of thing that bothers me. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. Edited on Mar 02, 2012, 03:15pm | |
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| 03-02-12 04:03pm - 4678 days | #15 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I don't really see how they could get a reliable profile of an individual person. For example my desktop PC is regularly used by 5 people, occasionally more, and I only have one user account on it. The searches I do on my phone are just as often for other people as they are for me. Often I use my wife's phone or my daughter's android tablet to do searches (because my phone's battery life is rubbish). My daughter shares her laptop and android tablet with her school friends. On top of that I have 5 separate Google accounts, used across 3 computers and my 2 mobile phones. I don't see how Google can get much in the way of useful information out of that, let alone an accurate profile of any of the individuals involved. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 03-02-12 04:11pm - 4678 days | #16 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
^Good rant, Drooler. I agree. | |
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| 03-02-12 04:57pm - 4678 days | #17 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
If they can't do it already, they probably already know that you have others using your web engine and, if you have kids, how many and about how old they are. You phone, if an android, is also tracked in combination with some web use. There are only a few sites that really aggregate the data, besides Google, for a lot of web stuff so it doesn't take them long to put all this together and start making decisions about who you are, your family and what everyone likes or has interests in. We all have different style and grammar and rate of typing (yes they can measure that too) so it isn't hard to figure what individuals are on line and when. The job is made easier whenever someone logs into their gmail account. So, by just getting on line and checking your email they pretty much know who you are right there. Where it goes from there is up to them, not you. | |
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| 03-02-12 05:29pm - 4678 days | #18 | |
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hodayathink (0)
Active User Posts: 312 Registered: Mar 27, '09 Location: Illinois |
There's no such thing as a free lunch. Or more to the point, if you're not paying for a service, and they aren't specifically trying to sell you something, then you're not really the consumer. You're what they're selling. People having been saying this about Facebook for the longest time (ever since they introduced their Advertising Program), but Google's been in the online advertising business for much longer than Facebook has, and for a long time it was their primary source of revenue (and it might still be). What do you get in exchange for all the information you give them? A very, very good free e-mail program (Gmail). The ability to share and store your personal videos (YouTube) and Pictures (Picasa) and Documents (Google Docs). And any of the other sites and services that Google provides. Deciding that your information isn't worth that is a perfectly valid decision. But it's not like this just became the case because of their changes to their privacy policy. This has always been the case, and I guess it just took this change for more people to realize that. I signed up with that realization, so all this hubbub doesn't bother me. | |
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| 03-02-12 10:21pm - 4678 days | #19 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
The facts are after reading this is it is not new. Sadly this has been going on for along time on the internet. I will come forward this one time on a subject, I worked for a computer engineering software company. It was first designed back in the late 90's. The program took every email program available at the time an allowed ISP's to sift the information emailed to and from you. This was not a M$ thing, but was a government designed software. And as delicately as I explains this without breaking confidentiality agreements. The program has existed for a long time and was now in the last 10 years developed to track IP's to users information from your ISP along with your web use and visiting IP's. It was an easy concept and is why many hackers use fake IP's to let the truth be known. Anyone want the scary part? Your banks and any use of your debit card is sold to the same people who own the ISP's and have your name and address. and in turn sell this in bulk if you will to the highest bidder. They know ever thing that has a receipt used with your debit card. Oddly enough only debit cards are tracked in this way not typical credit cards, at least not yet. So for now those buying porn are probably safe from prying eyes of your ISP to this degree. But not google. Just a matter of time and these two talk, and they will. I regret now doing the job I did on this, but like so many good intentions, it was designed to track illegal use and criminals of ISP's during the dial up era. But money and power found other uses. I was only one of a few hundred designing and testing the software. But alas that time is gone and I have no say or could stop anything after I knew. But it exists and Google was the first to come forward and say they were doing something like it openly. Before everyone cries foul about their ISP's, well federal law gives them the right to see and use the material they retrieve, so does your bank, its all in the wording of the law. PS I personally do not worry much about it since, figure the FBI can always bust in my door and take my pc and do the same. Both are legal. Warrant? We don't need no stinken warrants LOL Since 2007 Edited on Mar 02, 2012, 10:33pm | |
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| 03-03-12 12:39am - 4678 days | #20 | |
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slutty (0)
Active User Posts: 475 Registered: Mar 02, '09 Location: Pennsylvania |
Just curious, but how did you guys honestly think these sites were making money? I agree with hoda on this, fee based internet sites aside from a few areas have pretty much failed, so these companies all have to make money off advertising. I'm not really sure how one could disconnect from this system unless they disconnected from the internet entirely. In which case where would I get my porn? Bunny Lebowski: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars. Brandt: Ah hahahahaha! Wonderful woman. We're all, we're all very fond of her. Very free-spirited. | |
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| 03-03-12 07:05am - 4677 days | #21 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
For me it is not so much the fact that it is being done. It is the insidious, high handed, ambivalent, nonchalant manner in which it is done. Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 03-03-12 07:11am - 4677 days | #22 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I don't think that is a recent change. International companies have been arrogant certainly since the 80s, and most probably before that (I was just too young to notice!). My details were being sold without my specific permission before the Internet was mainstream. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 03-03-12 07:39am - 4677 days | #23 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Probably not, but they haven't been so arrogantly open about it before. I think they deserve a good slap just for that. Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 03-03-12 09:08am - 4677 days | #24 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Talking of which in today's paper. 'Google is being sued for £8,000 by a man who was shown urinating in his garden. The 50 year old man says he is now a laughing stock in his village. His lawyer said: 'My client was caught in the privacy of his own home, with the gate closed. It is a small village & everyone recognised him. The man, who lives in France, is suing for invasion of privacy & illegal use of his image." Good luck to him, I say! Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 03-04-12 02:08pm - 4676 days | #25 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
Why, dare I ask, was he urinating in his garden? If he was in view enough for someone to take a photo of him, I don't see how he has a case. I admit I have little idea what the privacy laws in France are like, but I suspect he has more of a case there than anywhere else in Europe. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 03-04-12 09:10pm - 4676 days | #26 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Perhaps I can try to shed a drab attempt of light on this. Years ago, proprietors would go into villages and towns and size up the people. What they ate, their religious views, how much money they had and how big were their homes. They would then only bring what they could sell to those people. This was done over 2000 years ago along trade routes in India and middle east. It was not practical for people to bring everything they had so they would travel and sell what fit the villages. In the wild west, proprietors sold guns and pants and shirts, and huge amounts of hats to Indians. They seldom sold food which would have been a waste. Even some manufacture made items specifically to sell to the American Indians Google did and does what is best for their sales and advertisers. It looks and feels weird, to have them track our clicks LOL, and what I may even be typing now. But they are here to make money not provide you with a service. They are in the advertising business. I would say to thoughs who do not like it, it was simple anyone could see it coming if they had looked. Nothing in life is free and everything you get from Google Inc. Is free, we have to pay the piper some how. Even at PU this forum, the newsletter and the $200 Tuesday is not free even though it appears free. You are being sold a product and every part of this site knows what we type where we are and our IP's and we openly join knowing this and participate. The contest and the forum give great product feed back as well as the reviews and even the polls. It is not very different from Google, and we allow this to happen everywhere in our lives. Because........... we like free stuff Since 2007 Edited on Mar 04, 2012, 09:15pm | |
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| 03-04-12 11:40pm - 4676 days | #27 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Like I say... It is not so much that they are doing it, more the way they are doing it. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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