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| Porn Users Forum » Target Store Credit Card Hack |
| 1-15 of 15 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 12-19-13 11:37am - 4021 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Target Store Credit Card Hack Not porn, but I thought relevant because of how often we talk about credit card fraud. This is said to only affect shoppers in the U.S. and Canada, but the department store Target has admitted that a Black Friday hack attacked the credit card info of millions of customers, from roughly November 27 to December 15. And you thought paying for a porn site through a payment "company" headquartered in the People's Democratic Republic of Fuckyouistan was risky!  Amazingly this was a hack of their POS (Point Of Sale/Piece Of Shit?) machines, not their website. One more reason to shop online, I guess? Shows you can never be too safe, though maybe a store with the name (and bright red logo) Target was a darkly ironic tip-off. I've always heard to be wary of in-store keypads that seemed to be loose and in somewhat shoddy shape...but that seems to describe the overwhelming majority of them, and this was a digital attack to make it unknown to victims. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 12-19-13 11:52am - 4021 days | #2 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
I almost never shop at the big box stores but guess who actually did ... at Target ... using their debit card ... about two weeks ago. Thinking about just having the bank cut me a new debit card at this point. Merry x-mas to me. | |
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| 12-19-13 01:06pm - 4021 days | #3 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
It was probably malware that got installed on the company-wide internal network that allowed access to the credit card numbers and their corresponding PINs, so the report (linked above) says. I guess they needed a better firewall, huh? Well, now I can finally understand why the store is called "Target." I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 12-20-13 01:43pm - 4020 days | #4 | |
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biker (0)
Active User  Posts: 632 Registered: May 03, '08 Location: milwaukee, wi |
The only time I use my credit card is when I'm purchasing on line. It's cash and carry otherwise. I can understand people not wanting to carry large sums of cash during Christmas shopping, but as we witness stores are not secure. Warning Will Robinson | |
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| 01-10-14 08:27pm - 3999 days | #5 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Woohoo! There's now recent news that the Target data breach may have affected up 70 million people in terms of info like name, email address, home address, and phone numbers. This paragraph of the linked article is particularly unsettling: "The company also said that the theft of personal information was not limited to customers who shopped at a Target store over the holiday period. Any person who has ever shopped at a U.S. Target store could have been affected." So, maybe the question is was Orwell wrong about who the real Big Brother was? Maybe it wasn't the name of our future dystopian state overlords, but the private sector tyrannies we all seem to be, whether willingly or not, enriching and empowering.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 01-10-14 10:41pm - 3999 days | #6 | |
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biker (0)
Active User Posts: 632 Registered: May 03, '08 Location: milwaukee, wi |
I have more faith in the porn sites I buy time on then these merchants. If this much information was leaked their security is poor. Every time I buy something at a department store they want me to get their card. Never will happen. I have one credit card and it is used only if there is no other choice. Warning Will Robinson | |
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| 01-11-14 03:05am - 3998 days | #7 | |
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jook (0)
Active User  Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
Did we know that credit card fraud is ridiculously higher in the US than in Europe and many other parts of the world? In general, it is not the fault of the merchant, though they are certainly culpable. The big problem is the credit card processors. The US uses the same antiquated magnetic stripe when credit cards were first introduced. Europe switched over to a chip over 10 years ago and fraud was reduced by some ridiculous percentage, like 90%. The point of sale (POS) companies don't want to spend the money to upgrade. I'm sure they would if they could pass along the charges to the consumer and/or merchant, but both groups would undoubtedly rebel and the government would get involved. Having the government involved is the last thing the credit card companies want. However, this standstill can't go on indefinitely and I believe the government will get involved if change doesn't take place in the near future. Instead of spending the money to fix the problem, the credit card industry developed rules and regulations for merchants that is commonly known as PCI (Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard). These are a very detailed and complicated set of rules that requires the merchant to take certain cautions when handling credit card transactions. The fines can be very onerous, up to $50k, if the merchant is found to be out of compliance. The credit card industry has done seemingly everything possible to avoid fixing the problem properly. [full disclosure - I work in the financial area of a company that accepts credit cards in an industry that is notorious for encountering fraud and was required to learn all about PCI] | |
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| 01-11-14 08:57am - 3998 days | #8 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Note : Just in case some people do not know when using a Debit card with a Visa or Mastercard logo. Some tricks they don't tell you  1. You can ask the merchant to run the card as a credit card, why you may ask.( no pin then either) As if you run your bank card as Debit it goes through your Banks servers not Visa or MC, your bank has a less secure system them Visa or MC. If you run it as a CC then it will run through the Visa / MC server. Use may vary from merchant not all places allow it but many due. 2. If you run your Debit as a Visa/MC Credit it can take 24 to 72 hours to remove it from your bank. Where a debit can be same day. Amazon as an example will run your debit as a credit but showed up fast. Walmart takes a day or two in what I have seen. 3. Change your pin every year. They say places save bank information along time a place you went to 3 months ago could be hacked and then there goes your pin. 4. Side note, do not copy ID or SS or CC on a public copy machine like Staples etc. They have harddrives that store records. If that copier is retired or sold or replaced other people can hack these drives. There is a huge underground business taking these old hardrives. 5. If you online bank hardwired is best, do not use a smart phone unless you are using a secure wifi or have great security software on your phone and home. And never allow browser to save passwords and login for your bank. Good luck. CT Since 2007 | |
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| 01-14-14 12:40am - 3995 days | #9 | ||
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Understanding that I'm pretty paranoid, I've always been weary of entering my PIN in those all-too-often rickety looking pads, especially surrounded by strangers in close quarters. And I might care about the various fees--the majority of which go to the banks issuing the credit cards, not Visa, MasterCard, etc.--merchants have to pay if they could be more secure in the way they handle my card's info. You know; not fuck it up for me and 40-70 million customers. 
At least it's better than when the old way of "processing" your credit card at the register was literally making a carbon copy of it! I've heard one of the remaining risky transactions are restaurants, because you simply hand your card over to a person you met only an hour or so before and he or she just walks away with it to do whatever!  The American credit card industry is still an insanely run operation. With all the hidden fees, bullshit rules and regulations (for consumers, not card issuers), and just general predatory climate in which they all do business it's like some sort of black comedy where consumers lose their savings and identity while corporations laugh as they walk away with the profits and as much salable information as they can suck up. And if you're interested in what your actual credit score is you get to pony up dough to one of the three Goliaths in consumer credit reporting, an industry that last year "60 Minutes" claimed was a 4 billion dollar industry--despite a federal government study that 40 million people have mistakes in their credit records. Yes, these three massive companies fuck up a sizable percentage of consumers' info while simultaneously lording over so much of it (files on around 200 million Americans' financial records). I guess we can't really regulate such things because we'd miss out on the Kafkaesque joke currently being played out on our lives. Just my  .  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove Edited on Jan 14, 2014, 12:43am | ||
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| 01-14-14 02:20am - 3995 days | #10 | |
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jook (0)
Active User Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
If only that were true. The consumer doesn't suffer nearly as much as merchants in the whole process. t is truly a nightmare for the merchant to shop around for a processor. It is impossible to compare costs between processors because they all have literally dozens of fees, i.e., for a foreign credit card, for a rewards credit card, debit card, if they have to manually swipe, etc. While they will tell you what those fees are, it is impossible to know how many of each customer the merchant will have. They start with a base fee for a no frills card and add a percentage or dollar amount for any "frill." The 2.5% rate many processors quote often turns out to be close to 4% in reality. There is no such thing like APR/APY for merchants as there is for consumers. American Express used to be the only one that had a simple system (no more) ... it was strictly a percentage, like 4%. Merchants often chose not to use AmEx because their rates were seemingly higher - MC and Visa quoted 2.5%. But that is totally misleading. They're not including all the add on charges. I've worked in restaurants for many years. I regularly take a look at our "true" rate after we get billed and Visa and MC are almost the same as AmEx. 4% is a very onerous fee. Our fees for all credit cards generally come out to about $5000/mo. There are no laws governing how much a processor or credit card company can charge merchants. They are pretty much free to do as they please while the consumer has lots of protections. As for giving a card to a waiter in a restaurant, I don't see how it's that much more dangerous than other retailers. Nowadays, there's not much the waiter can do except write down the number and use it to pay another transaction that was paid in cash and pocket the money. This is still done, but nowadays, many if not most people check their finances online regularly. The consumer will get his money back and the waiter is fired or worse. Edited on Jan 14, 2014, 02:26am | |
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| 01-14-14 06:17pm - 3995 days | #11 | ||
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
The current system still doesn't seem to favor either; designed to gobble up fees wherever possible. That site I linked to has a pretty long list of non-negotiable fees that businesses have to deal with if they want to process credit card transactions. In regards to American Express, I always thought it was a more traditionally consumer-oriented card anyway. Hence, the rewards, willingness of customers to pay annual fees (their more exclusive cards cost over $1k), and that they were not issued through a separate bank. The tradeoff being that fewer businesses accepted it, at least without a fee or minimum transaction. It's changed of course, and there seem to be more Visa and MasterCard-like AmEx cards available.
That still doesn't help my paranoia regarding physical security, especially with things like IDs and credit cards. Whenever I'm emailing those various Nigerian princes my CC number and PIN I still have the card in my hands--way more secure! Outside of stealing their numbers, I've heard you should try to pay tips at restaurants in cash, as it can be faster and some restaurants handle tips differently, like occasionally taking some of the tip to pay those damned fees if it was part of a total credit card charge. Personally I'm not a fan of the American-style optional tipping, especially since it means workers can earn less simply because they claim to not like the service or the server. Does it really encroach on our freedoms to require automatic gratuity because an individual might not get to be more of an asshole with their money? "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | ||
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| 01-14-14 07:24pm - 3995 days | #12 | ||||
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jook (0)
Active User Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
It's only visa and mastercard that impose numerous fees, not AmEx. It's only recently that AmEx started imposing fees for different types of transactions and cards, but there are only a few such instances. Another thing that differentiates AmEx from Visa and MC is that there are no "middlemen" with AmEx. The merchant deals with AmEx directly. With MC and Visa, the merchant deals directly and indirectly, with a processor and the issuing bank. Everyone gets a fee and you need a scorecard to tell the players. There's a rate set by the credit card company called the interchange rate, and the bank and processor tack on rates to that. There are literally 100s of processors if not more, Heartland being the largest. AmEx is friendlier to merchants and customers alike, but at a premium. The customer pays a hefty fee for the card and the merchant pays a higher rate.
Never email credit card info. It's a lot easier for hackers to get that info than if you gave it over the phone or by fax.
Absolutely correct, always try to leave tips in cash. I just got finished working for a restaurant that had serious cash flow problems and owed the waiters over $30k in tips when I left. That's an extreme example though. Restaurants are allowed to pass on the credit card fee to the tipped staff. So, if they pay an average of 3.5% in credit card fees and the waiter's tips are $100, the waiter will only receive $96.50. And some restaurants accumulate the credit card tips and pay them on the paycheck. So, it could be up to almost 2 weeks before a waiter sees his tips. One of the attractions of working in the restaurant industry for waiters is they get paid daily. It's great for a kid (or adult) who doesn't know how to manage money.
Tipping is a stupid custom that started, depending on who you believe, in ancient times. Logicially, it should be thrown out the door. And slowly, restaurants are coming around, first by mandating an automatic gratuity (auto grat in the industry) and ultimately, to increasing the prices and eliminating tips altogether. That is the ideal situation. But one restaurant can't do it alone. This is a custom that is so ingrained in peoples' psyche that it will take a few forevers to eliminate. In Europe and other parts of the world, tipping is much different, particularly in restaurants. Most European restaurants add on a 10% tip and pay their staff more in wages. Europeans tip very small if at all as a result. When they come to the US, they continue in their ways even though they know our system is different. When asked why, they often reply that we should pay our staff more or something along those lines. Waiters absolutely hate getting a tourist or foreigner as customers, more so than elderly wimmin. -) Edited on Jan 14, 2014, 07:32pm | ||||
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| 01-14-14 07:55pm - 3995 days | #13 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Just out of curiosity, jook, did you ever work (still work?) as part of the waitstaff in restaurants? I know there are countless stories from servers regarding customers and/or their tips (or total lack thereof), many of which have kept me away from ever even thinking of working in that industry. I have also read there is a new law or regulation starting this year from the Dept. of Labor that will allow restaurants to not add automatic gratuity for parties of six or more (or whatever the number is). It just seems to be a horrid job depending on what state you're working in, where the minimum wage for a tipped employee and a non-tipped one can vary hugely. A handful of states do not allow any discrepancy in the minimum wage between the two, and as far as I know they have not fallen into anarchy. It all seems to be an elaborate excuse masquerading as a "tradition" to pay people less. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 01-15-14 04:12am - 3994 days | #14 | |
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jook (0)
Active User Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
I never worked as a server except in my own restaurant, which I really don't count. However, I am intimately familiar with front of house operations. Most people don't realize that front of the house jobs are very difficult. The work is mentally and physically draining. Tips can range from dismally low to 6 figures. There are a lot of factors that go into how much a server earns. You may be surprised that one of the least paying server jobs can often be at an upscale restaurant. Since service is important, management will often hire more than enough people, i.e., bussers, runners and servers. After all, they only have to pay these employees a minimal amount, $5/hr in NY. Since the only people to get tipped directly are servers and generally bartenders, the server is almost always required (by the restaurant) to pay out everyone else -- bussers, runners, maitre d', bartender, hostess (sometimes). If it's not a busy shift, that can leave him with very little. The reason a server will have to "tip out" the bartender even if the bartender gets tipped directly, is for those drinks that are made for patrons not sitting at the bar. I think that you misread that law. Restaurants have always (as far as I know) had the right to add or not add an auto grat to large parties or as small as a party of one for that matter. The only requirement is that if an auto grat is added, it must be made clear to the patron one way or another. A word of warning. Always review your restaurant check carefully whether or not it is computerized. It is amazing how many restaurants I've worked at where menu prices don't match what's in the computer. It's generally not intentional but results from ineptitude and idiots that work in restaurants. Also, you'll want to check for an auto grat to make sure you don't leave a 40% tip, haha. As for minimum wage, I think every state allows tipped employees to be paid less than the state or federal minimum. However, the requirement is and always has been that the employee must earn at least the regular minimum wage with tips. Otherwise, the employer must pay the difference. It's really a terrible business to go into for many reasons. One of the primary reasons is that the average profit for restaurants is 10%, a very low number for an industry. It's a nickel and dime business and every cost must be controlled. Sorry if I digress. [I wrote a book, unpublished, about my experiences at a restaurant. It's mostly comical. If you're interested, I'll let you know where to find it online, no charge -)] Edited on Jan 15, 2014, 04:24am | |
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| 01-18-14 10:09am - 3991 days | #15 | |
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slutty (0)
Active User Posts: 475 Registered: Mar 02, '09 Location: Pennsylvania |
I worked as a waiter for several years as I was going through college, and I can attest to how hard it can be (and how financially unstable it is), the primary problem with the crazy low waitstaff minimum wage is the waitstaff is expected to work their shift often regardless of how busy the place is on that night, so if you were working M/Tu/W, you typically made far less than the real minimum wage, which you typically had to make back over the weekend and hope your tables were good tippers, which is something you have very little control over no matter how hard you try, also if you are a regular, the waitstaff remembers who you are and how well you tip. I usually tip 20% or a dollar a drink at a bar, unless the service is absolutely abhorrent, but even then I never tip below 15. The credit card tipping thing was always weird to me, it just got added to our check and there was no real way to verify if you got what you deserved, I usually tried to keep a running tally, but it is easy to lose track after two weeks. With regard to credit cards, there was a very interesting story on Diane Rehm's show this past week. The european random transaction chip system seems much better, but there is no real motivation for US credit card companies to mandate this, as except for Discover and Amex, the card companies themselves have no liability for fraud (typically the bank that issues the card is on the hook for the whole tab) and the merchant is responsible for the lost merchandise, so why would Visa or MC bother to spend the money upgrading? Hopefully this will motivate them to do it, I actually switched back to cash a few years ago after some annoying incidents with cards (although still have to use cards for porn). Bunny Lebowski: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars. Brandt: Ah hahahahaha! Wonderful woman. We're all, we're all very fond of her. Very free-spirited. | |
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