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| Porn Users Forum » Credit card porn guidelines in US |
| 1-21 of 21 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 05-23-14 07:23pm - 3866 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User  Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
Credit card porn guidelines in US Read this on XBiz.com today: "Due to a lot of ever-evolving restrictions by the credit card associations on what can and cannot be shown in an S&M film, a lot of the "extreme" content producers found it very difficult to create realistic and compelling BDSM content and moved over into simply "rough sex" genres," Rowntree explained. The change in some ways has actually decreased competition and has, "thankfully" taken BDSM film making back towards its roots of "safe, sane and consensual" according to Rowntree." "Even though rough sex producer Intersec Studios company spokesman Dixon agreed with Rowntree's take that content is limited to credit card processors' censorship (the site avoids content like peeing on other people, blood or fecal matter), the content on its sites including SexuallyBroken.com, InfernalRestraints.com and (rigging site) Hardtied.com's, among others, can be considered extreme even in today's market." I have always been curious, what exactly are the guidelines that credit card companies try to impose? Would any of the webmasters here who have had experience with this be able to clarify? I would be really curious to know the details. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. Edited on May 23, 2014, 07:26pm | |
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| 05-23-14 09:44pm - 3866 days | #2 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Actually I didn't realize the credit cards even had such limitations. I know that they won't process transactions for things that are illegal (businesses that sell pot in states where it is legal to do still can't do credit cards because it's illegal under federal law) but that was it. My guess is that S&M borders on the edge of "obscene content" which doesn't have first amendment protections. The card companies are probably playing it safe in the event some site gets hit with obscenity charges and then customers or the feds start suing under some wacko legal theory to extract money from the one source they know actually has money. Promoting obscenity is a federal crime (though I don't think any court has ever said that a card service or billing processor is "promoting" by letting people pay to access a porn site) so this may also be weighing in on the reasoning. Edited on May 23, 2014, 09:50pm | |
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| 05-23-14 11:57pm - 3865 days | #3 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Holy hell! The hypocrisy of some of these companies is just maddening. All the shit you could legally pay for with a credit card--weapons, prescription drugs, hate literature--that could do measurably greater amounts of harm, but some rough porn is off limits. Like a few years back, when the major credit card companies and PayPal started disallowing people from donating money to WikiLeaks, while still allowing money to go to some hate groups. But are banks really that bad compared to something like a porn company? Well, British bank HSBC make take the we-do-whatever-the-fuck-we-want cake on that one--admitting to laundering billions of dollars for violent drug cartels in Colombia and Mexico. (I guess some companies really are "too big to jail."  )But at least they weren't doing something really bad, like making porn.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 05-24-14 08:02am - 3865 days | #4 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
"I'm also hamstrung by rules from credit card companies on the golden shower thing. I'm not supposed to have that in my clips store and even Verotel won't approve it (I can sneak it in here and there but I can't have a site devoted to GS and piss drinking)." This just yesterday from a fetish photographer on a forum. I can think of tons of sites that break this rule, in the US and elsewhere, but maybe they've just escaped notice. I'd rather not potentially blow their cover by naming them here, but there are a lot. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | |
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| 05-24-14 12:10pm - 3865 days | #5 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I never use logic when discussing what you can and cannot buy with a credit card because it would be an exercise in futility. What I will say is that there are still some sites with a large percentage of water sports but as far as I know they are all Eastern European in nature. I'm not certain but I think that seeing blood and/or fecal matter in your content is likely to get you blacklisted by every CC Processor. The first because whatever you are shooting is likely to be dangerous to the health of the performer and the later because anything containing fecal matter is considered scat porn and that is probably illegal to show on the net and sell. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist but that I certainly wouldn't want to own a studio that offers this type of content. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 05-24-14 06:43pm - 3865 days | #6 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Is that because they use the "squirting" tag to cover themselves? It seems that's what DVD studios were doing for a while in the 2000s, though the genre has died down in favor of anal-focused one-upmanship stunts. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 05-24-14 06:47pm - 3865 days | #7 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
But can I still buy The Human Centipede on Blu-ray?  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 05-25-14 07:48am - 3864 days | #8 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
I'm not into sites like this, but you would be surprised how many I have stumbled across. They're mostly European, but some use some recognizable payment processors. It's amazing that sites like this can get away with it while other sites get censored for having golden showers or rough but consensual S&M. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | |
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| 05-25-14 07:54am - 3864 days | #9 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
This also from Kink's Acworth last week, from the same article that mentioned the credit card guidelines: "And although the knee-jerk reaction by those new to the genre would be to push the limits of content to new extremes in order to titillate new paying customers, Acworth said in fact his company may be "retiring" some of its most extreme lines in favor of appealing to a more mainstream audience." Reading between the lines here, I wouldn't be surprised if he is referring to pissing.com. It hasn't updated in years, and it's all about golden showers. If you're at all interested in this site, I'd join it while it's still around. It's only got just over 50 videos, and you can download everything in 2-3 hours. It seems like the site has a small core of content that they meant to build on, but then just never updated. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | |
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| 05-26-14 07:07am - 3863 days | #10 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
To further substantiate my suspicion here, I had a look at their published content guidelines. Their guidelines do not allow person to person peeing. They do allow most squirting, but not long squirts that may be mistaken for pee. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | |
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| 05-26-14 09:00am - 3863 days | #11 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
By Kink's standards, Pissing.com always seemed mild to me, especially compared to something like the also no-longer-updating Water Bondage (which is very much what it sounds like). But it still sucks because I liked what Kink.com was doing with the golden shower genre, albeit however briefly. Certainly came off less extreme than the other sites in terms of how far they would take the fetish, hence why "anal" on EverythingButt usually means more than what other companies are willing to do. My only complaint about Pissing.com was the sets (again, the damn armory); they were sometimes too creepy for my tastes, as with most porn. I can never fully enjoy a scene, except for some careful closeups, if the background looks like something out of Hostel.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 05-26-14 09:38am - 3863 days | #12 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
Just saw a quad anal scene on FuckingMachines.com. That's 4 full sized dildos attached to the moving arm of a modified SawzAll. Holy shit! Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | |
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| 05-26-14 04:11pm - 3863 days | #13 | |
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jook (0)
Active User  Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
From what I know working with credit card processors and have read about, extreme porn, a subjective term, is no different than any other legal business as far as credit cards are concerned. As long as it's legal, a credit card company can process such charges and has the right to collect payments. | |
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| 05-26-14 05:58pm - 3863 days | #14 | |
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LPee23 (0)
Active User Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
The weird thing is, this seems to be the attitude of credit card processors towards many sites. Then there are the handful that say their payment processors are forcing them to remove certain "offending" content. It seems to be totally inconsistent. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | |
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| 05-26-14 06:29pm - 3863 days | #15 | |
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jook (0)
Active User Posts: 325 Registered: Dec 22, '13 Location: jersey city |
I'm guessing that some credit card processors don't want to be involved with certain industries or services. I doubt that the reason for this is because they think it's unethical. There's probably a high percentage of chargebacks involved which makes it costly for the processor. | |
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| 05-26-14 10:02pm - 3863 days | #16 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
That might be a metaphor for how credit card companies treat you when you don't pay off your monthly balance. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 05-26-14 11:59pm - 3862 days | #17 | |
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Parsnip (0)
Active User Posts: 39 Registered: Oct 29, '13 Location: Atlanta, Georgia |
10 - 12 years ago there were a lot of sites with underage material which was technically legal (for example the earlier incarnations of MetArt) - the credit card companies made them change or put them out of business. They work on the principle that they may be the first people that local lawmakers may come after as they could be considered to be enabling access to the material. After all, they aren't saying that the companies can't make the material, just that they won't participate in charging customers for it. As businesses they have that right. The extreme end of so-called S&M (Kink has nothing to do with real S&M) has become so violent and abusive that it almost impossible for the girls to survive it. Acworth and his associates have made fortunes through marketing ever increasing levels of brutality to an audience that has no limits to it's depravity. It the authorities can't exert some sort of control, we should be thankful that the credit card companies are prepared to. | |
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| 05-27-14 03:52am - 3862 days | #18 | ||
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LPee23 (0)
Active User Posts: 399 Registered: Jul 14, '13 Location: USA |
I've always wondered, was that the case with Ga1itsin's stuff for MetArt and Ga1itsin-news? I've always avoided it because I didn't know for sure that it was legit. I know he had charges leveled against him in Russia in 2008, but never learned the outcome of the case.
My issue is that the credit card companies don't seem to do this in a very sensible way, and they go after content that is safe and consensual. In the three instances that I am aware of them pushing for self-censorship, they were way over the line. One is the case of a small fetish photographer who likes to shoot pee fetish stuff, but can't post golden showers on his site because of credit card processor rules. Another example is a site that combined S&M, role play, and peeing in a way even more extreme than Kink.com. Credit card processors basically forced them to remove almost all of their original shoots with any kind of nudity or S&M, and they are pretty soft now. The third example is the article on XBiz.com that I quoted earlier: "Even though rough sex producer Intersec Studios company spokesman Dixon agreed with Rowntree's take that content is limited to credit card processors' censorship (the site avoids content like peeing on other people, blood or fecal matter), the content on its sites including SexuallyBroken.com, InfernalRestraints.com and (rigging site) Hardtied.com's, among others, can be considered extreme even in today's market." I don't think golden showers belong in this list. That's just my take. Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. | ||
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| 05-27-14 11:58pm - 3861 days | #19 | |
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Parsnip (0)
Active User Posts: 39 Registered: Oct 29, '13 Location: Atlanta, Georgia |
No it goes back way before that. The site started as "Most Erotic Teens" (that's where the "Met" comes from) in the 1990's and specialised in girls under 18 which were technically legal under federal law but fell foul of a lot of local laws, and were illegal in most other countries. That put the credit card companies at risk and I believe that is why they cleaned up their act in about 2002. Anyway, that's not the real point here, except that it shows that the credit card companies can exert some positive influence when the law fails to. | |
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| 05-29-14 09:18am - 3860 days | #20 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
So far - so good. Never had even a hint of problems with my card going through the system for my adult, and internet porno purchases. Maybe they're givin' some slack to an old codger whom they figure already has one foot on a live-wire and the other about to step in a water puddle | |
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| 05-30-14 11:13am - 3859 days | #21 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Never would've guessed it. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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