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| Porn Users Forum » Amateur, Really? |
| 1-26 of 26 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 10-16-10 02:10pm - 5143 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User  Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
Amateur, Really? Has the term, "Amateur" been over used by the porn industry? It's obvious to me that since this word first became a buzz word in porn the definition has been stretched. Sure, maybe there were some college kids who posted sex clips for free back before anyone realized they could make insane money from it but I'm not buying that these various "amateur" sites are finding a continual flow of freely offered sex videos and photos. I guess they could be selling it as a genre -- like cheerleaders. Sure, they aren't authentic cheerleaders but it's all in the fantasy. The problem with this concept is what does an amateur girl look like or act like? There's plenty of money in gonzo and natural is in style so it's not like the models stand out from any other pay site. Thoughts? | |
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| 10-16-10 02:24pm - 5143 days | #2 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
Some of them are professionals with self-image issues, possibly. But seriously, I think you're right that "amateur" is a genre, just as MILF is. Really, are all of the women on the MILF sites mothers of children? Is proof provided of this on those websites? When an experienced model gets bitchy and petulant on the set, has she become an amateur again? Is a true first-timer who is also very photogenic and instinctively knows just how to work with the camera really an amateur? Yeah, it's just a genre. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 10-16-10 02:37pm - 5143 days | #3 | |
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Yariana (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 56 Registered: Mar 10, '10 Location: Salem Oregon |
Respectfully, just because someone has done a photo shoot or happens to be photogenic does not make them a pro. The amateur market was at one time really amateur. Tube sites and free sites were the gateway for amateur video uploads. When it became popular, the Pro sites basically hijacked the industry by claiming to have amateur girls which were really experienced actors disguised as amateurs. Over the years, the amateur industry has become a joke. From a producers point of view, it is very hard to find true amateurs. Most sites just circulate the girls from one site to another, changing their names and appearances. It is comical really. Real amateur girls are very hard to find and even harder to work with when they are available. Though it is a genre in the industry as a whole, There are still a few real amateur sites out there. Edited on Oct 16, 2010, 06:01pm | |
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| 10-16-10 02:47pm - 5143 days | #4 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
Language can be used in many ways for many different purposes. I agree that "amateur" is mainly used as a marketing/advertising tool: The amateur genre is supposed to be fresh, new girls that you (hopefully) haven't seen before, and that will be more exciting than the older models you are already familiar with. "Amateur" can also be used as a word to criticize, like Drooler states: an experienced model who is acting bitchy can be called an "amateur". Or she could be called a "diva". The word "diva" could be used to criticize someone's actions, or, in a positive sense, to praise someone for being a star or at the top of their profession. Language itself is extremely flexible, and there are some people who can use it extremely well and powerfully. And there are other people who are more pedestrian with their words. I have found a lot of pleasure over time from reading books and articles that I thought were elegantly written, or that were humorous, or intelligent, insightful, or that showed many other interesting features. Unfortunately, I was never able to create that level of writing. My ideas come across more in the form of scrambled eggs, hopefully edible, but not especially tasty. | |
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| 10-16-10 03:46pm - 5143 days | #5 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
You're selling yourself woefully short, fireone. Contrarily, I find your stuff right on the heels of the superlatives you've granted to those you've just espoused to. I would also say that about the other active members who contribute to the forum. I never cease to be amazed at the abundance of writing talent I see from this bunch. Oh yes...And to you Goldfish....great thread you got going here. I'll be following it with interest. | |
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| 10-16-10 04:43pm - 5143 days | #6 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Lol. I thought only professionals did that!  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 10-16-10 05:49pm - 5143 days | #7 | |
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Yariana (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 56 Registered: Mar 10, '10 Location: Salem Oregon |
Right on! In my experience first timers are far too nervous to be bitchy and petulant on set. Its the returning girls that usually become Prima Donna's after a few shoots. | |
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| 10-16-10 09:57pm - 5143 days | #8 | |
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malikstarks (0)
Active User Posts: 108 Registered: Nov 19, '07 Location: Florida |
This brings to mind what Brazzers did with their spinoff site Mofos.com. At first they launched Mofos as kind of a smorgasbord of various sites almost with a feel similar to Bangbros. When that failed miserably, they decided to latch onto the amateur wave and re-launched the network (I remember seeing on the Brazzers forum when they were promoting the relaunch). They added few new sites (while changing the feel of existing ones). Now the sites are characterized as follows: Real Slut Parties: "Wanna see the most mind blowing college sex parties from across the country? It's the real deal, all caught on video and submitted by you! Insane college craziness, pussy packed house parties, holiday orgies etc...." Pervs on Patrol: "A while back, this beautiful girl who lived next door use to always undress with her window opened. This girl had no fucking clue that I was jerking off over her from across the yard. One day I decided to grab my dad's camera and start filming her etc.... I know that Girl: Every single gorgeous girl you see on this site is 100% Real! They are all part of the biggest user submitted, amateur video site in the world...IKnowThatGirl.com!...etc. It should be noted that absolutely none of these girls are amateurs, as anyone who has visited the other mainstream North American sites (bangbros, RK etc.) can attest. Nonetheless the strategy seems to have paid off for them from what I gather. It's important to keep in mind that there is a significant contingent of "average joe" porn viewers that are basically looking for porn with an "amateur feel" (i.e. girls without huge fake boobs). Which is what these sites cater to. Most of these guys aren't sophisticated enough to realize that-with few exceptions- these are just pornstars all the same. Just minus the fake boobs and shot with bad camerawork in order to create the illusion. Edited on Oct 16, 2010, 10:04pm | |
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| 10-17-10 06:32am - 5142 days | #9 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
This is turning out to be a really interesting discussion. Yesterday, I was also hoping that webmasters would join in, and fortunately, Yariana has. "Amateurs" in porn really is by and large a fantasy genre. From the user's POV, it's sometimes like a virtual cherry popping: You are supposed to be able to see a girl who has never performed on camera before. The users who take the label with utter seriousness are the ones who are disappointed and complain, but they're either new to it all or experienced but purist in the use of the term in question. But as Ik2fireone said, language is flexible. Think of the word "conservative" in American politics. That's supposed to mean less government and less government spending. During the Bush years, the Republican-lead Congress decimated the Clinton-era surplus and proceeded to create the largest deficit we've ever had. Now they're blaming Obama for it. Yeah, language is flexible. LOL. And figures lie and liars figure. Anyway, I don't get upset if the term "amateur" doesn't mean real amateurs. Sometimes I'll see a photoset of a girl who isn't called an amateur but obviously doesn't seem to know what to do with her increasingly naked self. It's got to be a real talent to pose in front of a camera and do it well. That's something I've never taken for granted. So if they aren't really amateurs, it's probably just as well. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 10-17-10 06:45am - 5142 days | #10 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I always take "Amateur" to mean normal looking, a everyday type of girl. Fake boobs, loads of makeup, tarty clothes etc. don't look amateur. I guess to be more accurate it should mean girls who don't do modelling etc. as a career, or if you wanted to be really strict you could interpret is girls who don't get paid for their work - but that clearly isn't viable for a commercial site. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 10-17-10 10:53am - 5142 days | #11 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
There are those girls just starting in porn that have done almost nothing except for a couple of photoshoots. These I have no problem when they appear on a site or video that has them listed has amateurs because they are frankly just that. I don`t expect to see a girl that`s already done plenty of video work to appear under that same amateur label. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 10-17-10 01:52pm - 5142 days | #12 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Forgive me for diverting from the discussion (subject), but I just have to seize the moment and echo Drooler's above sentiments. The essences of this statement needs to be kept alive and never sleep. Edited by Staff on Oct 17, 2010, 02:44pm (Khan: fixed quoteback) | |
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| 10-17-10 05:45pm - 5142 days | #13 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Even better the Republicans are trying to keep alive tax cuts to the rich by tagging them to essential bills which they know the Democrats can't support and therefore appear the bad guys. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 10-17-10 06:11pm - 5142 days | #14 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
Good to hear your perspective Yariana. I can see how the genre evolved from the free sites to professional. I still think the parameters for the genre are so vague that it's almost useless. Imagining a cheerleader or MILF is easy but an amateur? | |
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| 10-17-10 06:16pm - 5142 days | #15 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
A good example of my last comment. I do not think "natural breasts" when I think amateur. I've known women in real life who have fake breasts yet don't get paid for sex. I would label women in this category "natural". One of Drooler's definitions above has amateurs being a girl's first time on film. Again, if the girl gets paid for that first time it's not amateur! | |
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| 10-17-10 07:28pm - 5142 days | #16 | |
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Khan (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,737 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: USA |
Well, I usually try to stay out of the ongoing discussions here but because of my unique perspective (I've been in the business a pretty long time) I feel I can offer some historical perspective to the use of the term "amateur" w/in the online porn industry. Now, I'll preface this by saying I'm not posting to curtail further debate of the subject nor do I expect anyone here will like the explanation. But, if nothing else, it'll let you be privy to some historical info about the industries early days. So, without further ado ... I'd like to take you back in the early days of online porn ... and I'm talking the *really* early days here ... back long before the first tube site ... even long before the first TGP ... back when no pay site had recurring billing and the earliest top-lists were just starting (the list were made by posting daily server stats) ... so again, we're talking the infancy days of online porn sites. Well, back then most solo model sites were for established porn stars. I'm talking models who'd been in full length porn videos. But there were also a few enterprising sites that didn't fall into that category though they were still (mostly) solo models. In some cases they were folks living the "swinging" lifestyle. In other cases they were some local hottie who had a site set up. Maybe it was a free site but often times it was a pay site. Often it was a softcore "nudie" site but not always. And here's where your "amateur" term first comes in to play. If the model wasn't a professional porn star, they were considered an amateur ... and so categorized in whatever links list where they appeared. Over time, the term stuck and the use of the term "amateur" got further blurred by different uses but to a great extent, the original "definition" still carries over. Anyway, now you know why so many solo sites are called amateur sites even though the model may have been doing this for years. You might not agree with the term, but at least now you know. Former PornUsers Senior Administrator Now at: MyPorn.com "To get your ideas across use small words, big ideas, and short sentences."-John Henry Patterson | |
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| 10-18-10 01:36am - 5141 days | #17 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Nobody is truly for less government except for maybe anarchists and a few (just a few) libertarians. Most of these idiots in politics are only for certain parts of the government to be smaller and spend less--not the whole thing, and certainly not their job or their salary. Kinda funny how people who claim to want "less government" are always the ones running it... The military is the best example. The U.S. spends more on defense than any other country and it takes up an enormous amount of the federal budget (around 25%), yet even just the thought of decreasing it is blasphemy to "conservatives" who have a rock-hard erection for everything military or remotely "patriotic." But when it comes to taxes or business regulation their motto seems to be "Go fuck yourself" and get your greedy bureaucratic hands out of my life! But if these same people had their way, many of us here at PU (at least the Americans) would be in jail or worse. Hell, just looking at girl-girl porn--homosexual sodomites!--is probably a huge "moral" issue with these people.  So, yeah, language is pretty flexible.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 10-18-10 02:38pm - 5141 days | #18 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
Thanks for the historical perspective Khan. I can see how amateur made sense in that context. If site 'A' had Jenna Jameson and site 'B' had some nobody from Kansas it makes sense to call Ms. Nobody an amateur and hence her Web site an amateur site. Since there are no real stars in porn these days it also makes sense why the meaning of the amateur tag on a site has lost its meaning. | |
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| 10-18-10 08:49pm - 5141 days | #19 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
That jibes with what I've heard from web-masters. Spunky, the photog/webmaster for Kate's Playground - and now dozens of other sites - even after he had been doing his thing for years and had clearly made a lot of money from it would always come back with "hey, we never claimed to be professionals" when anybody would criticize his technique about anything. I don't have a problem with home-grown sites claiming to be amateur. I do disagree with sites such as "InFocus Girls" being listed as amateur because it's mainly top euro-babes that they are using. Perhaps they get the "amateur" tag because the main guy shooting stuff for that site does a lot of stuff for ATK as Fred. I see his stuff at Teen Dreams and Twistys now as well. | |
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| 10-19-10 08:35am - 5140 days | #20 | |
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mistresskent (0)
Active Webmaster  Posts: 188 Registered: Feb 02, '09 Location: Kent, UK |
I use amateur to describe my video making skills.. how embarrassing! Mistress Kent xx http://www.mistresskent.com http://www.mistresskent.co.uk | |
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| 10-19-10 03:15pm - 5140 days | #21 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
Ah, a self-deprecating Webmaster. | |
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| 10-20-10 07:24am - 5139 days | #22 | |
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mistresskent (0)
Active Webmaster Posts: 188 Registered: Feb 02, '09 Location: Kent, UK |
Looked it up on wikipedia! I like the "In Comedy" definition! x Mistress Kent xx http://www.mistresskent.com http://www.mistresskent.co.uk | |
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| 12-18-10 05:22pm - 5080 days | #23 | |
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butler99 (0)
Active User Posts: 1 Registered: Dec 18, '10 Location: Canada |
I've been wandering the web lately looking for a real amateur porn site. Haven't found one. Just lots and lots of sites with professional girls pretending (badly) to be amateurs. Thing is, as we all know, even the pros can't act worth a damn, much less the girls they find for these web videos. There are a ton of amateur videos out there, as you can see posted on places like whatboyswant.com and such. But I haven't found a site which gathers in and catalogs these actual homemade porn clips and videos. Instead they show young girls in professionally made clips and videos who are clearly being paid. And I don't care how new to the business they are. If they actually got paid, or even if they made the video with the help of a professional cameraman or site in order to get it on the internet it's not what I'm looking for. I will continue to search for homemade amateur stuff because, frankly, it's the only porn that actually has passion and reality to it, and which I find exciting. And if anyone knows such a site, pay site or not, I'd like to know where it is. | |
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| 01-15-11 10:30pm - 5051 days | #24 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
This issue raised itself again for me, when I saw the following description for a model at a pay site: "Heidi is from the Ukraine, and has only recently started amateur modeling." Why is this an accurate statement? Amateur modeling, to my mind, is when a girl is in her bedroom or her friend's house and she's dressing up and her friend's taking pictures of her to see how they turn out. Pro modeling is when she works with a professional photographer and gets professional styling and there's an expectation of payment for the modeling. If I were writing this, I would say "Heidi is from the Ukraine, and has only recently started professional adult modeling." Because, for all I know, she might have been practicing for years - she sure looks quite self-assured. | |
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| 01-16-11 01:20pm - 5051 days | #25 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I usually use the more mainstream definition. If she does it as a career (ie it's her main source of income) then she's not amateur. If she does it to earn some extra money as an occasional thing then she's amateur. Models who do 3-4 shoots a month I would never be inclined to call anything more than amateurs. Models who do 3-4 shoots a week shouldn't call themselves amateur. There's also a difference between amateur style and amateur models. There's no reason why pro models can't do an amateur style photoshoot, but it would be wrong to say they are themselves amateur. It's one of those phrases like IT and MILF which have completely lost any meaning due to overuse and misuse. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 01-16-11 01:45pm - 5051 days | #26 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
I'm inclined to go with Ed's reasoning. I quite like photosets of 'amateurs' but they are usually much better shot by a professional photographer. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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