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| Porn Users Forum » OT - MMA-Related - Controversy re: Fallon Fox, Transgender Fighter |
| 1-15 of 15 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 04-11-13 08:52pm - 4272 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
OT - MMA-Related - Controversy re: Fallon Fox, Transgender Fighter In MMA circles, there has been a lot of controversy swirling around Fallon Fox. Fallon is a transgender-male-to-female person who "came out" as transgendered after having 2 very dominant performances against women fighters who had not been told that Fallon had been male for the first 31 years of his/her life - this stuff is so confusing, I don't even know what the correct pronoun is. There's controversy over whether it was a scummy move for Fallon to fight any women without informing them of that reality. There's controversy over whether it's fair for a transgendered person to fight a biological woman. There's controversy over whether a transgendered person has the same biology or different biology than a biological female. I remember when I was in my 20's, I had a friend, Shelley, that I used to wrestle often. Shelley was a bit shorter than me, but she was stocky and lifted weights for fun. I was a bean-pole, really skinny, and I never worked out at all, except playing drums and dancing at clubs and walking a lot. Wrestling Shelley was fun because neither one of us was ever able to pin the other, so we could go as long as we wanted, and as furiously as we wanted, and it would never end with a pin. That tells me that males have certain advantages over women, and the fact that this person can come into MMA in their mid-30's and start dominating women who have been fighting and studying martial arts for years, tells me that transgender male-to-female's have an advantage over biological females and that there can't be a fair fight based on weight between that pairing. Thoughts? | |
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| 04-11-13 10:32pm - 4272 days | #2 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Obviously an average male will be stronger than the average,(smaller) female. It would be a definite advantage. It would have been a little fairer if his opponents had at least known. Not telling them is certainly an attempt to take an unfair advantage. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 04-12-13 07:16am - 4272 days | #3 | |
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jberryl69 (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,000 Registered: Nov 27, '10 Location: neverland |
I'll put the bitch up against Ronda Rousey any day as long as it makes weight.   Her latest fight - start at the 4 min mark. http://youtu.be/EorxAH5E7iQ This fight against an ex-marine she almost got caught in a naked choke hold but was able to slip out of it. Hasn't lost, never gone past the first round, same finishing move each time. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee. If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat! Edited on Apr 12, 2013, 07:26am | |
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| 04-12-13 08:05pm - 4271 days | #4 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
That fight made me a huge fan of Rousey. I bought the PPV, cause I had to see it live as it happened. Just watching Rousey stalk to the ring, like a gun-slinger from out of a classic western out to avenge her sister or something, was worth the price of the PPV. She had just intent! Then before the fight started, she was this bouncing ball of energy, with this dark cloud over her eyes. It was an amazing fight. Few fighters would have had the where-withal to have gotten past that choke attempt. Rousey said that if she were matched with Fallon, she'd take the fight, but that she still thinks that someone who was a biological male would have an advantage, that it would not be a fair fight. My neighbor, who has studied martial arts for decades and teaches women - only women, because he's seen too many male lunk-heads who learn martial arts so they can start fights in bars - says that a well-trained martial artist can take on someone regardless of weight, so he thinks it's no big deal. | |
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| 04-12-13 08:43pm - 4271 days | #5 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
Renée Richards From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Renée Richards (born August 19, 1934) is an American ophthalmologist, author and former professional tennis player. In 1975, Richards underwent sex reassignment surgery. She was denied entry into the 1976 US Open by the United States Tennis Association, citing an unprecedented women-born-women policy. She disputed the ban, and the New York Supreme Court ruled in her favor in 1977. This was a landmark decision in favor of transsexual rights.[2] | |
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| 04-12-13 08:51pm - 4271 days | #6 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
I think your neighbor is being too general. I'm certainly not an expert, but I would think a bigger, stronger opponent would have a definite advantage in a fight, all else being equal. From the internet: http://www.intermartialarts.com/weight-classes-in-mma Weight classes in MMA Weight classes in MMAThe weight class in MMA can vary between countries and regulating bodies, as can be seen below. Nearly all the organizations use different weight classes in Mixed martial arts events, which causes confusion between them. Although the weights classes have similar names to boxing, they are infact very different. Organizations will often adopt their own rules for weight limits, causing ambiguity in the sport regarding how a weight class should be defined. For a variety of reasons (largely historical), weight classes of the same name can be of vastly different weights. For example, a boxing Middleweight weighs up to 160 pounds, a UFC Middleweight is 185, and a Pride middleweight was 205. | |
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| 04-13-13 07:01am - 4271 days | #7 | |
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jberryl69 (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,000 Registered: Nov 27, '10 Location: neverland |
I just saw the Rousey/Carmouche fight when I went looking for the youtube link. I've been a fan of hers since the fight where she became champ. She got rebuked by a lot of fighters over that fight but I figured, the best should rule. Funny how so many girls refuse to fight her. Liz Carmouche at least had the guts to get in there with her. There are some of her earlier fights on youtube, better quality I think, but all shorter. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee. If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat! Edited on Apr 13, 2013, 07:10am | |
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| 04-13-13 10:42pm - 4270 days | #8 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
The "so many girls refuse to fight her" is a hot of hype. There were female fighters (multiple) who said that the first they heard about their refusal to fight Rousey was when that was announced by the UFC. Don't believe the hype. Any female pro in the 135-lb division would love to have a match in the UFC against Rousey. Carmouche campaigned for that fight like crazy, so she got it - and she proved that she deserved it too. | |
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| 04-14-13 05:15pm - 4269 days | #9 | |
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jberryl69 (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,000 Registered: Nov 27, '10 Location: neverland |
Agreed - I'll admit I'm not a close follower of the sport so I'll defer to your knowledge. Misha Tate is not going to fight Ronda - she gave up that right last night to a relatively unknown who, like Rhonda, is undefeated. Should be a good fight. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee. If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat! | |
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| 04-15-13 03:11pm - 4269 days | #10 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
I Knew a 15yr old Blackbelt Girl at my studio back in the 1970's She was 5'4" and maybe 125 soaken wet. She took on a man 6'3" and over 250 and she knocked the crap out him. He was a Brown belt she had maybe 5 years on him she had been studying since she was 5 years old. In martial arts it is often what you use not what you do. I am still fairly good at it even at my age. Anyways was a funny story I recalled and was kinda funny watching this small thing out do this grown man. I think he was like 25 or something then. Since 2007 | |
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| 04-16-13 09:23am - 4268 days | #11 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
I imagine in addition to greater knowledge, the girl had much greater speed, faster reflexes. So the guy's greater strength and bigger weight didn't help. Assuming, of course, that a 250 lb man would normally have greater strength than a 125 lb girl. | |
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| 04-16-13 09:43pm - 4267 days | #12 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I would think that's the whole issue, since weight (or mass, if you're measuring in kg) doesn't really tell you a whole lot about someone's body. Even combined with other measurements (height, waist, chest, etc.), it can still not be a good indicator of what would truly make a "fair fight," if such a thing even exists. Women and men have different fat and muscle ratios and they're distributed around the body differently. And I would think the worry would be that a transgender fighter, even post-op, still has an unfair advantage. Genetically speaking, she may just have an easier time building or maintaining a certain amount of muscle that a weight classification would not make a difference. Sort of like how two cars could be the same exact weight, but their engines, transmissions, and suspensions could be very different and you wouldn't want to race them against each other.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 04-16-13 09:49pm - 4267 days | #13 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
In that case wouldn't your best bet be to just use a gun and get the whole thing over with? I mean why bring your black belt if you can bring a gun belt?  (Sorry, but I'm largely clueless when it comes to the specifics of martial arts and most other forms of hand-to-hand combat. At the end of the day I'm still thinking "It sounds great, but does any of it make you bullet-proof?") "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 04-17-13 07:14am - 4267 days | #14 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
You know that you make a great point. I was watching MythBusters one day on Discovery Channel. They had one person holster a gun and one run at the other with a knife from distances. It was funny but with in 25ft or less the guy with the knife got to the guy with a gun before he could pull it out and use it. I studied martial arts for 10+ years and still practice weekly. My reflexes now at the 1/2 century mark are slows then when I was 25. But my instincts of danger are much better now then they ever where. I can read body language instinctively. I know you were having fun with the topic but think your point was worth making. Guns used by most people who do not use them regularly need to be in close range to be accurate. I shoot regularly and can shoot a 4" group 150ft pretty easy. Some people could not hit the broad side of a barn at 150ft. Point is I think speed is key, a fast martial artist may get to the gunman faster then he could draw. Me I would be running the other direction ( unless armed myself) and use a cell phone to call 911. Since 2007 | |
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| 04-17-13 02:33pm - 4267 days | #15 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Speed is key, and a shit ton of luck always helps. For example, if you are attacked from behind and quickly knocked unconscious then you don't exactly have the upper hand, much less a fighting chance unless your attacker has no interest in bothering with you further. Running away is probably your best bet in a lot of situations. This insane idea of "standing your ground" like you're in a Charles Bronson film is just asking for trouble--not to mention criminal charges, once the actual authorities arrive--and could easily get you killed when you realize that no amount of training and/or gym time can magically protect you from knife and gunshot wounds.  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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