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| Porn Users Forum » Safe removal of external hard drives! |
| 1-25 of 25 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 08-22-09 07:48pm - 5600 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Safe removal of external hard drives! Is there a danger to my system if I a) leave all external drives hooked up to my system or b) if I remove them without clicking on the Icon (bottom right of Vista screen) that reads: "Safely remove external storage unit." ?? Badandy help! Messmer writing from a new computer, wondering if he caused the disaster by leaving all external drives hooked up as a convenience. The old one (just a month over the warranty period) gave up its ghost this morning. Diagnosis hard drive failure. :-( | |
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| 08-22-09 08:38pm - 5600 days | #2 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
One of the drawbacks to externals is the lack of proper cooling, if they have a fan at all. Heat will definitely shorten the life of any drive. When I leave my externals on for any extended period of time, I keep a 120 mm fan blowing across the cases which I make sure are separated enough to allow airflow between them. It looks a bit "rigged", but it keeps 'em cool. There can also be an issue if you keep too many externals running at once because each drive requires power from the motherboard. Put too much strain on the motherboard, you can lose your USB (or Firewire) ports. If you Google it, you'll see two schools of thought on unplugging externals without hitting the hotplug button to properly shut them down. Some say it's crap and makes no difference, others say it can lead to data corruption. I do know that if something is writing to the disk and you interrupt it, that can make a mess of things. But as far as pulling the plug on a drive that's just been sitting there, I always take the safe approach and shut it down correctly. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 08-23-09 08:11am - 5600 days | #3 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks, RB. I guess there's more to working with external drives than I expected. I kept them hooked up for convernience's sake all the time the computer was one. Once in a while |'d remove one by simply pulling the plugs and it didn't seem to do any harm but I just installed a terabyte WD MyBook drive which made it three external drives altogether and I was wondering if that could have caused damage to my computer. All I got yesterday morning when I booted up was the initial screen and, after that, nothing. The technician I talked to suspected a hard drive failure but now I'm nervous about external drives till someone reassures me that they don't damage the operating system. This may sound stupid but I know more about software than the actual workings of a computer. | |
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| 08-23-09 10:13am - 5600 days | #4 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
At the risk of starting a hard drive brand war, I've never had any luck with the WD externals. The first one I bought died after a couple of weeks. Hoping I'd just gotten a lemon, I tried another one and it started making noise and seemed to be having problems transferring data after a week. It's a shame - they look nice, they even feel like a well made product. But, even well dressed, a turd is a turd. I really don't want to scare you away from using externals. They're a great way to back up data, which is why I have about 20 hard drives sitting on a shelf, with some files duplicated more than once. To me, the key is keeping 'em cool and not piling 'em on all at once. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 08-23-09 11:11am - 5600 days | #5 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I have two WD externals, neither of which has given me any problems thus far...fingers crossed, with the possibility I could get as angry as RagingBuddhist. My one complaint is neither of them come with power switches, just USB ports, though one is a small portable drive (USB powered, no fan) and the other one (AC powered, with fan) has a backup/"One Touch" button which I never use. My two other, non-WD, externals both have power switches so I can leave them plugged in, but still switch them on and off. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-23-09 12:41pm - 5600 days | #6 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I'm not so much worried about an external going bad on me even though I'd lose part of my collection. I was wondering if the externals could somehow damage the motherboard or hard drive of my computer if I leave them plugged into the USB ports all day. At night I hit the power switch on that surge bar and everything is turned off anyway so, no need to disconnect. It all worked beautifully for me for a long time, but for my computer to give up its ghost one day after I transfered a ton of data to my newest external makes me wonder if one effects the other adversely somehow. Could three externals plugged into a USB port give the machine too much of a shock on booting up? All those questions, most of them probably stupid. They would have never entered my mind if my Acer hadn't packed up on me so prematurely. BTW, the 2 WD MyBook 500 GB externals are running very cool and quietly and reliably, so far, as opposed to a 250 Gig external I had that was always hot to the touch. | |
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| 08-23-09 12:47pm - 5600 days | #7 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
The external (250 GB) I just retired because it was running too hot was one of those Backup/One touch drives. It might have been normal for that brand but always made me nervous. | |
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| 08-23-09 02:26pm - 5600 days | #8 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
That's hard to say. If your USB controller is integrated into your motherboard and your motherboard is designed for x amount of usb ports, it'd be nice to think it could handle x amount of USB connected devices. But, just like anything else, I can imagine running something to it's rated capacity for extended periods of time could cause it to malfunction. It's not quite the same thing but, as an example, I'll tell you what happened with my last motherboard. In the days before huge drives, I used to run 3 PCI controller cards, each running 4 drives. After several months, I started getting a lot of write errors and corruption. Turns out, I fried the PCI controller on the motherboard. I had the slots. I used 'em. I fried the board. If you're worried about overloading the system at boot, why not just keep the externals off, then turn them on once you've booted up? Not as convenient as having one switch for everything, by definitely not so hard to do with the addition of another small power strip. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 08-23-09 04:07pm - 5600 days | #9 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks, RB, that's what I've been doing all day, but I never thought of getting another small power strip. That would be ideal. Just keep everything plugged into that one and after you're booted up, throw the switch. You're a genius. :-) | |
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| 08-23-09 05:25pm - 5599 days | #10 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
I've printed your last reply and I'm taking it to be matted and framed. I never get called that. Glad I could help! Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 08-23-09 11:21pm - 5599 days | #11 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
I still believe externals cost too much and offer more issues. Speed is better with them external and cooling, as RB touched on, is much better. A fan blowing on the drive itself is great, while a fan blowing across a case that houses a hard drive is a whole other issue. Many cases have no or very few hols to allow the air inside to circulate out, so it is the same as the insulated windows that have a void inside them. My one external has no fan and it runs very warm. My older external has a fan and still runs warm, but not as bad. If this is a system you would like to be able to scale, and you do not intend on moving the drives around, I would suggest using SATA for everything and set the drives up on an external mount with their own power supply. This is uglier but it works very well for me. The speed is much better and cooling is a non issue. But not every one is like me and feels a need to hoard porn like the internet will die tomorrow, so for most people an external is the way to go. To your specific question, RB is correct in many respects. Your motherboard has powered ports and each port is only meant for a given amount of power to be feed through it. The best thing to do is look in your manual to see how much power the ports can handle. If too much power is needed I can not say that it will damage the board for sure, but I would worry about the devices attached. Under powering many devices is damaging. I would suspect the only way you will run into problems is if you are start using non external powered USB hubs to run an army of devices. Having a few things hooked up across several ports should not keep you up at night, unless of course you are enjoying the content of those drives at night. One final note. Do not keep a whole lot of important data unbacked up on that computer for a little while. The newer a piece of electronics is the more likely it is to fail. The first time is the worst and as a little time goes on the likelihood of it not working decreases. If it is working good after a few weeks then you can be reasonably sure it will work for a while. Of course you should always keep backups of your important stuff, but we are all just lazy humans after all. :) "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 08-24-09 07:08am - 5599 days | #12 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks, Badandy. I have three WD MyBook externals. If I plug them into the USB ports and leave them plugged in all the time and simply pull the power supply plug when I don't need them will that do any harm to anything? THAT is basically my concern, that and what would happen if they were plugged into the power supply already when I have to re-boot the computer for some reason. Does one (the externals) affect the other (the computer) negatively, do you think? | |
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| 08-24-09 09:46am - 5599 days | #13 | |
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Colm4 (0)
Active User  Posts: 117 Registered: Sep 22, '07 Location: Holland |
I had an error once with my external and had to unplug it without clicking that icon. Messed up my usb capababilities and had to re-install windows. Fortunately the drives were still ok, but I always advice to properly disconnect them. | |
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| 08-24-09 10:17am - 5599 days | #14 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
I think you'll find that most compact externals without ventilation holes, usually metal housed, have some configuration to allow the housing to act as a heat sink. One of the models I have just has the top of the drive in contact with the housing itself, the newer ones I've bought have a thermal pad between the drive and the case. I was wondering about temperature myself, so I took the screws out of the end caps on two drives, had a fan running across one of them, and transferred a ton of files back and forth between the two for about a half hour. Then I took off the end caps and used my Biological Digital Temperature Estimator (a.k.a. my finger) to see what was what. The drive with the fan was slightly warm. The drive without the fan was hot enough to make me shudder a bit - definitely hotter than I was comfortable with. If anyone cares to send me the money so I can get a temp probe for my multimeter and get some exact figures, I do accept PayPal. :cheesy grin: Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. Edited on Aug 24, 2009, 11:18am | |
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| 08-24-09 11:12am - 5599 days | #15 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks, Colm4, I've had three externals sitting here .. disconnected .. until I got a definitive answer from someone on how Externals and my computer interact. I am glad I waited a bit. Still would like to know if I could keep them connected to my USB ports when they are not powered up. That would save me the trouble of having to crawl behind my desk every time I want to use them, or connect them all to the front USB ports and be faced with an unsightly tangle of wires. Also (because I just read about bandwidth alloted to each USB connected device) am I overloading anything if I run all three externals at the same time. I sorta like to roam back and forth between them. | |
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| 08-24-09 11:16am - 5599 days | #16 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
If the externals aren't turned on, it is definitely safe to leave them plugged into the USB ports. Your PC won't see them unless they're turned on. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 08-24-09 02:56pm - 5599 days | #17 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thank you, thank you .. that's definitely what I wanted to hear. I kept thinking that maybe during boot-up the computer would end up looking for something in the USB Ports that isn't there and throw a hissy-fit. That's how much I know! :-) | |
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| 01-10-10 05:31am - 5460 days | #18 | |
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shooterbo (0)
Active User  Posts: 185 Registered: Apr 25, '07 |
BadAndy....I am about to add a third external HD to my system, but ran out of ports in the rear of tower. All 3 will be self-powered with their own power supply. Can I use a non-powered hub (found one for 10 bucks) for all 3 and just one rear port, or will that be too much strain on that one port? Their capacities will be 80, 120 and the new one is 500GB. Or, how would you connect them up? There are 2 ports on the front end, but I don't think they read these externals correctly. | |
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| 01-10-10 07:11am - 5460 days | #19 | |
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Khan (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,737 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: USA |
I'm not BadAndy but perhaps can shed some light on this one. A USB hub should handle several drives w/out any problem. If you're concerned about the power drain, then there are USB Hubs that have thweir own power supply. I have one from Belkin but the computer suggest I disconnect the power supply as it wasn't needed. Also, the USB ports on the front of the computer *should* handle external drives just like the ones in the rear do. As far as personal experience, I use a hub and frequently have two externals plugged into it at the same time. I pass data between the two (so they're basically running at the same time) and have never experienced any problems. Hope that helps. Former PornUsers Senior Administrator Now at: MyPorn.com "To get your ideas across use small words, big ideas, and short sentences."-John Henry Patterson | |
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| 01-10-10 01:34pm - 5460 days | #20 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
I'll back Khan up on that - I have a powered hub that has 3 externals plugged into it. Unless it's hooked up to a USB powered notebook drive, I keep the power off and I've never seen a problem with it. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 01-10-10 03:45pm - 5459 days | #21 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
Hi Messmer, I just got a 1TB hard drive a couple of weeks ago and had a similar problem on a reboot. It was plugged into a USB port (so was my 500BGB in another). Came back to find a blue screen and a flickering cursor icon, nothing more. Seemed my computer was having a seizure. Unplugged the new 1TB and shut the system down (power button "hold down"), waited, pushed "on," and was back to normal. Now I don't use the 1TB except for occasional data backup. Power cord is always plugged in, but not USB. Fine by me at this point -- it's only for my videos. One other thing: Once I empty "trash" from the 1TB, I unplug it as it causes trash emptying to take a lot longer. Every time you empty trash, the system looks for trash from all of your volumes, so the more you have, the longer it seems to to take. But I'm using a Dell bought 4 years ago with XP on it and just 1 GB of ram, which these days must look like a joke. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 01-11-10 10:42am - 5459 days | #22 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks for the tip, Drooler. I haven't had any problems so far with externals since I bought the new computer. It probably was a hard drive failure with the previous one. But I'll certainly keep your advice in mind in case I ever see the dreaded blue screen. Isn't it funny but 1 GB of RAM used to be huge only a couple of years ago. I have 4 GB at present and they'll probably laugh at my low RAM next year. As to the deletes, I agree with you in connection with the externals. In my case it was even more aggravating because I deleted through CCleaner which overwrites each file it deletes three times (my setting). However, after I gave things considered thought I figured I didn't need to worry about secure deletes in my externals because new files will overwrite the deleted ones anyway and the drives are encrypted with True Crypt, so why bother. So, every time I do a delete now I dismount True Crypt and just do a delete of my c: drive. | |
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| 01-11-10 01:50pm - 5459 days | #23 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
That problem is pretty common on older machines. My PC is about 5 years old and having USB drives running at boot used to make it freeze. I found out there was a setting in the BIOS that fixed the problem. Depending on how configurable your BIOS is, you might be able to correct the problem by changing a setting or with a BIOS update. Try searching the tech forums for your motherboard model and USB externals and you might find a solution. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 01-11-10 03:56pm - 5458 days | #24 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I'm glad you mentioned "older machines" RB because I have become careless and have at least two USB connected externals running at boot. So far, so good but if anyone feels that's unwise please let me know. | |
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| 01-15-10 04:42pm - 5454 days | #25 | |
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squirrel (0)
Active User Posts: 17 Registered: Jul 15, '08 Location: US |
I've run externals "connected to the computer all the time," but with the power supplies hooked up to a "power director" from which I can turn each power supply on as needed. I really rarely actually use these drives, as they are for backing up my internal drives, and I only turn them on when I'm backing up the data. Bottom line, I really don't want these things to be running when the computer boots, that's for sure. I recently gathered up four 1-terabyte internal drives -- two of which I pulled out of my computer after replacing them with 2-terabyte drives, and two of which I pried out of a couple of WD external drives, and plugged them all into a Sans Digital TR4U "JBOD" box -- "JBOD" stands for "just a bunch of disks," as opposed to the more readily found "RAID" configurations. Bottom line, I've got these four drives in one box with a good fan for ventilation, an onboard power supply so it's just got a regular power cord, and each drive shows up separately on my computer. For about $150, it's a great solution for getting a bunch of external drive space under control, if you don't want to get into RAID. Here's a link to the thing: http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid/tr4ub.html It's commonly available at NewEgg.com and other online shops. I found mine at my local Fry's Electronics. I'm sure happy with mine, and I would easily recommend it to anyone. With excellent cooling and its own power button, it sure makes having a bunch of external drives a much easier and better-controlled way to go! | |
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