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| Porn Users Forum » Is The Porn Industry Too Mainstream? |
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| 04-08-08 03:59am - 6102 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User  Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Is The Porn Industry Too Mainstream? I guess I'm getting old, but I have an affection for the old days. I saw my first porn in a XXX Theater. It starred the beautiful Annette Haven. My friend and I laughed at the dirty old men, and they did wear raincots LOL, but it was cool because it was underground. Someone here mentioned Marilyn Chambers, and she was quite famous, but unknown to the general public. And then videos came on the scene, and I collected my favorites like they were movie stars. I remember Traci Lords and Shauna Grant scandalizing middle America, one by being busted for performing at age 15, the other by blowing her brains out. It was all seen as seedy and disgusting. Those 2 events made a larger segment of the population aware of porn, and then came government intervention by way of the Meese commission which tried to make porn a crime again, but failed. And then came A.I.D.S. It didn't seem as if porn would survive all this scandal, much less become a bastion of capitalism as it has today. Everybody and his sister has seen porn now, and a lot of those sisters strive to be pornstars! With the internet's arrival, people have used the privacy of their homes to view porn, and did you know that something like 80% of women keep their porn surfing habits a secret? And did you know that the majority of online DVD porn purchases are by women? And did you know that porn is freely accessible to children, who need only click "yes, I'm 18", or use the debit card mommy gave them to access it? And that's not to mention the mammoth amount of free porn available online, a never ending stream really. So is all this a good thing? IMHO, American porn is gawd awful at this time, completely formulated. Even the strictly formulated sexual positioning would make a missionary bored! I search through the vast archives of TBP, and I see a lot of junk. Wal Mart porn. All the same. There are outstanding sites, but very few of them originate from the Valley Of the Porn. I also wonder if young people are imitating this crud in their personal relationships? Does little Johnny spend a romantic evening with his beloved by pulling his pud, and ejaculating in her eye while slapping her ass? Does he exclaim "fuck, yeah!" over and over while making love to the mother of his future children? It makes me cringe. The only good thing I can see out of all this is the opportunity a place like this affords me to communicate with others who share the hobby of collecting video girls! thanks guys! | |
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| 04-08-08 12:19pm - 6102 days | #2 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User  Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Nostalgia is an easy trap to fall into - I've done it many times myself. In fact it was I who picked Marilyn Chambers for the "choose one girl" thread. However, I think it is important to not let the past blind us of what good new things are out there. I do love old porn - it has a style about it, a raw sexuality and a certain naturalness and naivety. A lot of the old big budget porn from the late 70's and early 80's had the stars really doing their best to act - happily living in a delusion that next stop was Hollywood. It was charming and lovable. It is true that you don't get that anymore. Let me stop, and turn to cars for a moment. Personally, I can easily suffer from nostalgia in this arena as well. All of my favorite car designs are at least 30 years old, many going on 70 or 80 years old. Before safety laws and aerodynamics - cars had wonderful and wildly varied designs. Swooping lines, chromed pipes shooting out of engine bays, vents and grills that served no other purpose than to turn your head. The hard truth is that most of these cars were utterly terrible. They couldn't go around corners, they didn't always start in the morning and they would usually eat two or three engines in the normal life-span of one of today's cars. So do I wish I could go back to the 50's when Mercedes had gull wing doors? No - I like that my 11 year old Toyota is happily trundling along after 200,000 miles. And I like the fact that if I want to spend the money, I can still go buy that Mercedes and drive on the weekend. The present is the best time for cars as we can still admire all those crazy designs of the past but we can have reliability and handling and the performance of today's cars and look forward to new designs in the future. The same goes for porn. Sure, there is a lot of terrible, bland and repetitive porn out there. But the fact-of-the-matter is this: In no time in human history has there been more pornography being produced than there is today. The industry is huge! And due to that hugeness, the selection is expansive as well. For those of us who enjoy the old porn, we are spoiled by it - there was no selection, but we liked the goods they gave us. Now porn requires a more active role from the consumer - it isn't spoon fed to you anymore, you have to paw through the bins of content to find just what you were looking for. The good news is, what you are looking for is probably there, gift wrapped and waiting for you - no matter how obscure it is. Am I a big fan of main stream porn, not really, but there are some studios I like from that crowd anyway. Red Light District tends to make stuff I enjoy. There are even a few feature film style pornos that I like - "Beat the Devil" starring Evan Stone as the Devil is great, and "Cap'n Mongo's Porno Playhouse" I even own on DVD. I think it is great that porn has exploded into the hearts and groins of the public - it means that more and more of it will be made. I love old porn but I don't long for it because it is still here! I can go watch it any day of the week, and then I can turn around and watch something new and bizarre from Iceland or wherever. Every time has its fashion - right now Gonzo is very in, that will change. I have no idea what porn will be like in 20 years, but I can tell you one thing: I'll still be watching it! "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-08-08 12:27pm - 6102 days | #3 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
You know, jd, the first XXX movie I ever saw starred the incomparable Annette Haven, too. It was called "Black Silk Stockings" and it was also at a theatre. For beauty and smoldering sensuality, I doubt I'll ever see anyone like her. As many have said in the polls and reviews as well, porn has become too predictable and formulaic. I watch new releases of the same old toy play and facials with my eyes half-closed. Porn has created its own "mainstream" of cookie-cutter, ticky-tacky more-of-the-same. And I remember when "anal" sex started coming out as some new "big thing," like a fast-food chain puts out a "new" burger that's really just the same burger but with one little thing different about it. Does the average person really have such an aversion to creativity? Porn with the sensibilities of the '70's with the current better technology -- that would be something to consider, if it's even possible, since we do live in a different time now. But I'm not going to dis the idea too quickly, either. I really enjoyed the "little Johnny" paragraph, btw. His "fuck yeah!" doesn't sound anything like Annette screaming "FUCK!" during the projector scene in (correct me if I'm wrong) "Centerspread Girls." I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 04-08-08 01:10pm - 6102 days | #4 | ||
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
I'm curious if you happen to recall the study that reported those figures. I wouldn't be surprised at all that women tend to keep their porn surfing habits secret, but I would be surprised if 80% of women do surf for it - that is quite a few. I'd be wildly amazed if the majority of DVD porn purchases were indeed by women - I have to believe that the big business that porn has now become would know of these figures and advertising would shift to capture that female market. As it is, porn is so heavily aimed at men that it is ridiculous. While I'm sure there are quite a few women out there with lesbian and submissive tendencies, I doubt the vast majority are interested in watching a disembodied penis plowing gaping orifices of the self-described whores, sluts and bitches. Most women I've spoken to on the subject would like to see a bit more of the men than their genitals and perhaps a bit less degradation of the females. But - I have certainly been proven wrong in the past. I have a stone plaque marking the date. It is right next to the mounted spine of the fellow who proved me wrong. No, no - I kid. Honest.
These days if any kid gets access to online porn, I chalk that up to stupidity on the part of its parents. Net Nanny and its kin are freely available, reasonably cheap and wildly accurate. Sure a picture might sneak through, but not much. I also wouldn't allow my children to browse the internet without me at least being in the house some where - this was the policy my family used and it was quite effective. I didn't get much access to online porn until my parents decided I was old enough it didn't matter. (15 or so? I don't recall.) Sure, you can't control your kid's access to the internet at all times - it is too easy to access, but you can at least limit it at home, and in theory their school will be doing the same thing. I always liked my father's analogy for why he restricts a child's access to the internet. He said the internet was like a large city: It is full of lots of interesting and wonderful things that you want kids to see - but you don't let them explore it alone. I think that sums it up nicely. I honestly feel that too many parents are hoping that the next new technological gadget they buy for their children will be a great temporary nanny. I'm appalled at how many minivans I see on the road with DVD screens in the back playing the Lion King or whatever. One of the main points of going on road trips is so the kids can look out the window and point at something and their parents can teach them about it. Parents seem to wish to turn off their children at their convenience. Sure you can do it, but it isn't exactly raising a child - if you want to do that, get a dog. Dogs are happy to play whenever and will never ask you what a train is. I also hate when parents dumb things down for children - kids just don't have that wealth of knowledge that adults do, they aren't stupid. It might take longer to describe the more advanced concepts because they don't have as many other concepts to compare it to - but the fact of the matter is they can grasp any concept given enough time. I once had a teacher in 8th grade tell me that pH only goes from 0 to 14 because water was dead in the middle. Not two years later (I home schooled after 9th grade) I was in a college chemistry class using Hydrochloric Acid that was -12 on that scale. Great stuff: It could burn through a lab coat in seconds. Now granted it is possible that the teacher was an idiot and didn't know any better, but my guess is they simply felt it was too taxing to take the time to explain that things could exceed the basic scale and why and so on. Now, granted, I'm not a huge fan of kids - sure they are easy to control and some of the most curious little creatures you'll ever run across, but they are freaky looking and tend to be a bit annoying - however, when a kid asks me a scientific question, I give them the correct answer... or go look it up and then give them the correct answer. It takes a while, but the kids are usually happy to have the more complex truth. Frankly, they are usually just happy for an adult to be paying attention to them at all. One of my other reasons that I dislike children is that I refuse to ignore them. It is just wrong to pretend that the little bugger bouncing up and down next to you (usually wanting to show you something) doesn't exist until it is screaming and yelling. That's how kids are trained into bad behavior - because it is the only thing that brings attention to them. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | ||
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| 04-08-08 01:59pm - 6102 days | #5 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
To clarify myself, I meant (about) 80% of women who surf porn keep it secret, not that 80% of them surf porn. As far as nostalgia is concerned, I did state that I am getting old ! | |
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| 04-08-08 02:00pm - 6102 days | #6 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
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| 04-08-08 02:23pm - 6102 days | #7 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Well sure - most men don't tell the world that they surf porn, other than to their close friends perhaps, I'm guessing that's true for women as well. Well I sent an email to Vivid Entertainment to see if they'll tell me their sales percentages for men, women and couples - I'll let you know if they respond. I was going to call Wicked Pictures (no email address for them) but my cell reception here is terrible - I may try later. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-08-08 08:38pm - 6101 days | #8 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Damn do I feel young. I thought it was bad that the first video I had was a copy of a VHS tape I got from a friend! You guys are going back to when porn was a rare commodity!! To respond to your comment about children surfing porn sites, check my profile. You should notice I say I have seen surfing porn site for 10 years, okay but wait, I am 22! I think you can do the math. I would say I turned out okay, other than a major porn addiction. On the other hand, there is a great deal of porn that should not be so easy to view by kids. A titty picture (Playboy) I would say is fine, but the sites with stuff like pregnant midgets eating cum out of a transsexual's ass while being fucked by a horse! This sort of thing needs to be locked up a bit better from those who are too young to understand what they are seeing is not normal. Toadsith, that study came from Maxim magazine I believe. I read the article. Yes, I was Maxim, the March 2008 issue. It makes perfect sense that women are more secretive towards porn. Remember high school when everyone was envious of the guy who banged 2 girls, yet those girls were then considered whores? If dad finds his son's porn stash he jokes about it and then thinks nothing of it...imagine the same dad finding his daughter's porn stash. More than likely he would freak out. Most guys want to bang every girl they see, but they want virgins still. I also must say that I am tired of the girls screaming bloody murder during sex. I nice moan would be great, and more realistic. This is why I frequently watch porn on mute, I can see that the dude has a huge cock, I dont need to be told 300 times. Maybe if they came up with something other than "oh yeah, fuck yeah" and dont forget they say "oh Im cumming" every four seconds! "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 04-08-08 09:22pm - 6101 days | #9 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
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| 04-08-08 09:24pm - 6101 days | #10 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Adam and Eve would be an interesting company to contact. | |
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| 04-08-08 09:37pm - 6101 days | #11 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
And that's why I love porn in foreign languages - you can fill in your own dialogue but you still get all the fun sound effects! Maxim March '08 you say - interesting, my guess is they are wrong, but still interesting. The problem with many of these pop culture mags - and don't get me wrong, I love Maxim, had a subscription for years because it was so cheap and they have very funny writers - is that they interview a few people out of a very select audience, usually their readers, and then toss the results out there in large numbers and call it statistically valid. It is really why Statistics should be a required course in all high schools across the world. It is vastly easier than Calculus, and infinitely more practical in today's day and age. Sure Calculus can do wonderful, seemingly impossible calculations like the volume of bizarre shapes and so on - but everyday folk don't do that - they hire people who specialize in that. Statistics: Now that is something we run into all the time! The simplest way of validating at survey is the number of individuals tested. They often don't even tell you - when that is the case it can be a nice conversation piece but the survey might as well be considered pure conjecture. If they do tell you, more often you'll find newspapers listing that - it is often only 150 or so people - that makes one vote hugely powerful! Plus - who did they ask, did they take a bank of, oh, 200 thousand phone numbers and then have a computer randomly dial 150 people? Generally not - usually they grabbed some people from their readership - even worse, they probably asked the readers to write down their responses and send them in. So you are pooling from a non-random group of people, say Maxim readers, and are getting responses from quite pro-active, want-to-be-heard people out of that group. Voilà - you now have a statistically shattered survey. Still a good conversation piece though. This actually brings up one other point though - if you want to change the world but still be kind a lazy - answer surveys. Sure voting is all well and good but 100 million other morons do that as well. But surveys? Oh-ho! That is another matter! The thing is - despite their statistical short-comings, due the trouble of actually getting a valid sample size, people listen to surveys, they really do. Be it companies, politicians or just your everyday bloke. Survey results are short, sweet and easy understand (at least the way they present them these days). As I pointed out earlier, due to various factors, usually financial or time constrictions, the sample size is usually quite small. That means your vote is much, much more powerful than in an election. So always answer, get your voice heard as you may very well change something toward the way you like it just because you spent 10 minutes with someone on the phone. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-08-08 10:16pm - 6101 days | #12 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Agreed - unfortunately so far only one woman has posted and that was once - she is indeed the webmaster of GameLink Video On Demand, so the post had a bit of purpose in it. None-the-less, she also provided some other content about her own personal preferences, so if she's still reading the posts - I hope she chimes in again! This site tends to be rather male dominated, so some more female viewpoints would be a nice breath of fresh air. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-09-08 02:43am - 6101 days | #13 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
https://www.pornusers.com/replies_view.html?id=16422 | |
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| 04-09-08 09:24am - 6101 days | #14 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I hear you, jd! Didn't we comment on this very subject in another place? American Porn is too formulaic and I cringe every time I hear one of those phony cries of passion coming from the "actors", or see one more scene of the porn star, who is supposed to be in the midst of rapturous sex, look over to the camera and then move the hair out of her face so the camera can get a better shot of the fine job she's doing. Short hair should be a requirement for all porn actresses since oral sex has become such an important part of the average video. Allow me to be nostalgic along with you and pine a bit for the days when the movies still had a story (now matter how far fetched) and the first part of the movie was spent setting the scene and mood for what was to come. Trouble is, now all the producers assume that the main attraction by itself is what everyone wants to see and that filming the rest is just a waste of time and money. But, who knows, maybe tastes have changed on me and the younger porn users do indeed prefer to "jump right in" rather than wait a couple of minutes to see models get slowly and sensually undressed, preferably shedding lots of undies in the process, in other words, a bit of a tease, just like Salome with the seven veils. I hate it when the porn star whips off her sweater and wears nothing under it but her silicone breasts and then unzippers a skirt to reveal that she "prefers" to go commando. Oh, the monotony of it all .. but someone must like it or they wouldn't keep making cookie cutter porn. | |
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| 04-09-08 09:47am - 6101 days | #15 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Ah yes, Salome - the beginning of tease? That reminds of the rather interesting movie, "Salome's Last Dance" (1988, Dir. Ken Russell) - adapted from Oscar Wilde's play, that is a great and seriously twisted movie. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-09-08 10:00am - 6101 days | #16 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Ah, twisted movies! My favorite kind! I like the unpredictable and unusual. | |
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| 04-09-08 10:28am - 6101 days | #17 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
The first time "I fell in love" with a porn-actress was back in 1977/78. Marylin Jess was her name - a gorgeous french blond - sexy as hell and - by gully - pubic hair up to her navel. That was then - but her movies are still avaliable - and yes, not so great anymore. I dig old porn - sometimes - but more rarely. Then came - or at the same time the thunder of US-porn - some 8mm films called Swedish Erotica - nothing Sweden here - all US-made - but great girls - a little brunette called Candy was one. US-porn has since gone too mainstream - we had this discussion before - once it was all blowjobs, then came anal - man, most videoclips at for exampel Videobox and alike are anal-stuff. I love a girls fine ass, but all that anal-fixation, I don't get it? Anybody know why it's so dammed popular? As a yungster I had quite some anal-sex with girls who were afraid of getting pregnant - might that be it today? Well, generally I think most american porn today is too much alike - quick blowjob, quick fuck (included anal) and everything ends up with facials. Too much "wham-bam-thank-you-mam" and less finesse... Whats so exiting about all those facials - and man, the european are getting after it. Almost every west- and easteuropean hc-video ends up with a facial. And notice - 99 procent of the endings the guy has to jerk himself off in the girls face. There are - happy to see - still some clips where the girl do all the final - is'nt that more exiting? (Above is not included all the special niches) "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" Edited on Apr 09, 2008, 10:38am | |
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| 04-09-08 10:55am - 6101 days | #18 | |
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malikstarks (0)
Active User Posts: 108 Registered: Nov 19, '07 Location: Florida |
To answer the original question, yes, porn is too mainstream but so is sex in general, and that is that is only part of the problem. The 1980's and early 90's were probably the last era where you could actually sit down with your parents and watch tv without being embarrassed with constant sexual images and sexual references. Overall I would have to say this is probably not a good thing, sex used to have a certain mystery, innocence, and even reverence paid to it that was reflected heavily in early porn. There were countless pornos that dealt with the innocence of a young man or woman in their their first sexual experience, or the liberation of the once sexually prudish. None of those story lines would work today. They simply aren't culturally relevant in society that sells sex and porn like casual snack food. Is this good for society, no, (at least not imo). Is this good for men, yes, well porn is at least. In a completely feminized society where men's issues are put on the back burner, and where marriage is a risky proposition; the porn of today comes at just the right time. It is probably the most safe and convenient way available to relieve sexual tension. Also, you are virtually guaranteed to get what you pay for (if you know what I mean). So is porn too mainstream, yes. However it's also a mainstream solution to the now mainstream problem of sexual tension, and frustration for men. And a damn efficient solution at that. | |
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| 04-09-08 02:07pm - 6101 days | #19 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
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| 04-09-08 02:10pm - 6101 days | #20 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
http://img234.imagevenue.com/img.php?ima...ess_051_123_52lo.jpg | |
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| 04-09-08 02:15pm - 6101 days | #21 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
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| 04-09-08 02:56pm - 6101 days | #22 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I don't remember "The Erotic Adventures Of Candy" but I do remember the humor and nylons and garter belts .. darn it! | |
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| 04-09-08 03:33pm - 6101 days | #23 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
Yes, I read that somewhere a few years ago. Seems she knew better. Funny, now we see that consumers of porn (some of us, anyway) don't tolerate them, either. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 04-09-08 03:39pm - 6101 days | #24 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
Reminds of this funny start of a scene in an 80's vid in which Randy Spears plays a director. The woman and the guy are talking and start making out, then the woman suddenly stops and says to Randy, "Gee, I forgot my line." Randy looks at the script and says, "You say, 'Oooh, baby, oooh, baby, ooooh.'" I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 04-09-08 04:08pm - 6101 days | #25 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Ah Randy Spears - I still think he did one of the best comical impersonations of James T. Kirk ever. He is one of the few semi-current porn stars that can portray multiple characters. That is one of the reason's Cap'n Mongo's Porno Playhouse is so great. It had Randy Spears, Joel Lawrence, Evan Stone, Bridget the Midget and more - a cast that can actually remember lines without checking the script every 4 seconds, lol "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-09-08 06:45pm - 6100 days | #26 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
The best acting I saw was in "The Opening Of Misty Beethoven". And who can forget Jamie Gillis as the infamous Mr. Luigi! | |
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| 04-10-08 09:14am - 6100 days | #27 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Well, my man - we're both at that age - and along with her was Brigitte Lahaye - not so pretty - but what a body!!!! - Remember? BTW: Great thread!!!!!! "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" | |
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| 04-10-08 10:14am - 6100 days | #28 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Our movie network (TMN) shows porn every day after midnight and I can no longer stand the sight of Randy Spears! Actually he's likable, seems to be a pretty good actor, too, BUT HE'S IN EVERY MOVIE THEY SHOW! There only seem to be about six porn actors in Porno Valley. | |
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| 04-10-08 12:12pm - 6100 days | #29 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Haha - yeah, I can imagine that would get annoying. Considering he's done over a thousand movies, they don't even have to be playing the same movies over and over (like a lot of late night networks) and still achieve an ever present state of the R. Spears. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-10-08 10:17pm - 6099 days | #30 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Certainly http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?ima...haie37_123_954lo.jpg | |
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| 04-13-08 10:00am - 6097 days | #31 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
In the 80's I knew a woman who worked at porn theatre and she made the point that there are far fewer men in porn than there are women, so that's how the industry is biased in favor of pleasing men. And so it's been that way. It seems that way in Europe, too. Or is it that women who like porn prefer other women? I'm really in the dark on this one. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 04-13-08 10:28am - 6097 days | #32 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Of what I've read and from personal observation I think there are two main factors contributing to the lack of male talent compared to the vast quantity of female talent. The first factor would be that I still feel the industry is oriented toward men heavily, so the variable that the customers care heavily about are the female models. As long as the male models do their job properly - nobody complains. The second factor is that the female models often will only work with certain male models. This is a factor that is widely discussed in the industry as it can be a serious pain-in-the-ass for the directors. Very often, the contract girls will have a specific, often very short, list of male stars they will work with. In fact, it was the main reason behind the rise of Evan Stone (pun semi-intended) - a new contract star, Sydnee Steele, would only work with him and very few other male stars, so the directors basically had to use him. That is a specific example, but I've found you see the pattern repeated throughout the industry. It is a large reason that many of the male porn stars have broken into the industry through gay porn. Gay porn, like main-stream porn requires new men constantly. If you get a reputation of being a reliable performer and let it be known that you'll also to boy/girl porn, eventually you might get a call from the main-stream industry. If the first movie goes well, then your in. But it really is an exclusive club right now. The other ways in are via luck of sorts, like Evan Stone, he went straight from doing Chippendales style stripping to working in main-stream porn. Or you can start your own website and higher and perform with girls yourself. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-13-08 02:11pm - 6097 days | #33 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Only the truly perverted men who don't mind pulling their puds in front of the world make it in porn. that is why so many of them seem to be creepy---because they are! Think Jamie Gillis!! | |
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| 04-20-08 06:09pm - 6089 days | #34 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
The original query was whether the porn industry is too main stream. I don't think so because there is little if any mention of porn in mainstream media. You get the odd TV show that will invite pornstars to talk about their reasons for doing porn and what it's like, but they only pick that subject to get ratings. They don't have any interests in the subject. Other than Jenna Jammeson I'd be surprised how many non-porn watching people can name another pornstar and I think that she's mostly known thanks to Howard Stern and Entertainment Tonight. Now if we want to talk about the fact that todays porn is super boring. It's the same actresses with the same guy, doing the same positions, on similar sets. The only thing that is different is the studio releasing the movie. I dare anyone to identify a movie, and the studio who released it, by looking at a random scene from that movie. I'll be honest, and say that I can't. Studios don't make porn movies anymore. They simply make porn. They've manage to remove any story aspect from the equation. What you have today is porn by the number: girl #1 with Boy #2, doing positions 3, 4, and 5 on couch, bed, or floor. To save time the guy is usually hard, and the girl is naked. Kissing gets in the way so that's gone, foreplay also got in the way so that also was remove. Dialogue also got in the way, so they've limited it to guys calling the girls every possible deregatory word (think slut, whore, bitch, cumm bucket, tramp...and so on). For the women it usually invloves asking the guy to ramm it in deeper (pick a body orrifice). It's true that there are many more movies being made in a week then there was in a month a decade ago. My problem is why does it have to all be the same. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 04-20-08 07:55pm - 6089 days | #35 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
I'll admit that today I might have some trouble as I have been more focused on Internet produced porn rather than the DVD community, but rewind 2 years and sadly I probably could. Largely because I knew what male stars were tied with what studio or sometimes just the tenor of the shoot. None-the-less, "gonzo" style porn has certainly become the style of choice and follows much of your said formula, which is too bad, I'd like more studios to go for feature style, but these days people think they need a multi-million dollar budget to try a feature porn film. I'm glad that a few websites are getting back into plots (Brazzer's Network is a good example) but they usually only do scenes rather than full length movies. Eh, I'm sure it will come back - history do repeat itself. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-21-08 12:19pm - 6089 days | #36 | |
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malikstarks (0)
Active User Posts: 108 Registered: Nov 19, '07 Location: Florida |
I would agree here, particularly with 1990's dvd/vhs porn which was much more distinctive-particularly the Extreme Associates/Armageddon stuff. However I think this makes the argument that porn is in fact MORE mainstream, as all of the major porn studios are using many of the same techniques and plot devices. In response to the comment about porn not being in the mainstream media; you are right, but this really has more to do with FCC regulations, society's obligation to protect children from "obscene imagery". You are also correct that most average people cannot name a mainstream porn star. However I would probably say that's simply because the nature of the porn business is not to produce mainstream stars. Let's face it most guys simply want to see a girl perform a few times and then it's on to the one. Most studios only film a girl a few times, (even less in the online environment) before telling her to move on. I think the more important question is the oft debated one "Is sex to mainstream?". Porn is simply society's (particularly men's) response to pent up sexual tension. As sex has become commonplace, porn has as well. Almost all of us know at least one girl who has had some kind of cosmetic surgery, usually breast implants. This is imo a direct response to the porn's impact on society at large. Porn went from being: something you could only obtain from a shady street vendor, to the advent of adult theaters,then home movies, to now virtually dominating the web in terms of commerce. Now we have reached the point where many are complaining that the porn is to "boring". Think about it, I would doubt if too many guys from the 1970's, 80's, or even the 1990's would have entertained that sentiment. Edited on Apr 21, 2008, 12:26pm | |
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| 04-21-08 12:24pm - 6089 days | #37 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Couldn't have put it better myself. As a matter of fact I've complained a few times about the very same thing in here, through comments, reviews, or in the forum. Porn as it is dished out on many video sites and certainly on late night cable TV is incredibly boring for the reasons you stated. I just watched "Deep Throat" yesterday and while it's not exactly Oscar material .. what a difference .. it's got a story line (corny admittedly), female stars that don't hiss and moan: "Yes, oh yes, oh God, oh yes," male stars that don't keep going: "Fuck, yes!" Pathetic this new type of porn and as you said boring as hell because if you've seen one movie produced after a certain date you've seen them all. | |
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| 04-21-08 02:43pm - 6089 days | #38 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Rather, I say porn has climbed out of the underground, and is now run by people better suited to selling deodorant. | |
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| 04-21-08 02:47pm - 6089 days | #39 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
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| 04-21-08 03:07pm - 6089 days | #40 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Just to nit-pick, but Cosmetic Surgery has been popular since at least the 60's. It is just that the technology for breast implants matured more recently and hence has become more popular. Corsets are a very old technology for breast enlargement - if the women attending the royal balls in the 1400's could have shoved giant silicone balloons in their tits, I'm quite sure they would have. Oh, and for reference, the cosmetic surgery of choice for girls in the 60's was rhinoplasty (das Nose Job). "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 04-21-08 03:29pm - 6089 days | #41 | ||
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Now I can't exactly read minds, but I'm guessing malistarks meant that if you asked porn viewers in the 70's, 80's or 90's - they wouldn't complain about porn being boring at that time. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | ||
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| 04-21-08 07:25pm - 6088 days | #42 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Sorry but I took your statement a little too literaly. I agree with you that it is run by people who look at porn as a commodity that can be sold or traded. There is no interest in making a good porn movie. They just want to release a product as quickly as possible which cost the least amount of money possible and will have a fair amount of return. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 04-21-08 09:03pm - 6088 days | #43 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Refocusing on the original issue of whether porn is too mainstream or not, I think that the industry is basically maturing. Porn is becoming more mainstream but will never be readily accepted in the US (at least in our lifetime) and I don't think anyone here really wants it your face all the time. By now, most of the niches have been explored to some degree or another although I'm sure there a few far out or twisted ones yet to go. Most of what we see online is driven by economics and website traffic. In the US I do think you get a formulistic stuff because it doesn't pay to much of anything else. Besides how many 18 year olds who probably don't even have a GED are going to put on an Oscar worthy acting performance. You are kind of limited by the talent which is in turn dictated by what people are willing to pay and see. Could porn be better. Hell ya. Will it get better? Probably not unless you're willing to shell out a bunch of money to a website so they can get scriptwriters, nice sets and pay a porn star who can realistically say something believable. Even then, porn is still going to be dominated by the low budget, crank em out mentality because that is best and fastest way to make a buck in the business. | |
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| 04-21-08 09:25pm - 6088 days | #44 | |
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malikstarks (0)
Active User Posts: 108 Registered: Nov 19, '07 Location: Florida |
Well of course you are right; there has always been various forms of physical enhancement going perhaps as far back as history itself. You could hypothetically include foot binding in ancient China; use of neck lengthening rings in Africa; corsets as you mention, hell you could maybe throw in the use of toupees on the part of men. I'm no history buff, but I'm quite certain that the popular use of each of these devices were influenced or even directly caused by some other external factor. In other words somewhere, somehow, someone decided that THIS is what is gonna be hot and the majority of people agreed with them. I would also agree that cosmetic surgery has grown more popular, at least in part, due to technological advances that have made it safer, and also less expensive. However I don't believe that this alone can explain the recent explosion in growth for the industry, particularly for it's most popular surgery- breast implantation.(329,000 procedures in 2006 alone in the U.S.) One might surmise that the popularity of this surgery is a reflection of women trying to become more like the Hollywood stars they idolize. However looking at most (if not all) of the A class Hollywood starlets out there, none that I can think of off the top of my head (maybe I am wrong) have particularly large breasts, and none of them have breasts implants.(To be sure there are plenty of girls emulating these women as well, reflected in the epidemic rise in eating disorders over the last decade.) So who (or what) are these women to flock to the nearest plastic surgeon and slap down thousands of dollars for bigger boobs? The only other answer I can come up with is that they are emulating the girls us guys watch in pornos, or go to see at the strip club. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that every girl that gets implants is trying to be like Jenna Jameson/Pamela Anderson. However women like Jenna, Pam, and the adult industry as a whole is the greatest reason for this phenomenon. Edited on Apr 21, 2008, 09:36pm | |
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| 04-21-08 10:22pm - 6088 days | #45 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Now it would be mostly conjecture on my part, but my experience is that the average American woman doesn't really watch much porn nor visit strip clubs. Yes, I will admit that breast implants are quite in vogue for the porn industry and perhaps there is some pressure from men that watch porn and wish for their lovers to get the operation, but I honestly don't believe that accounts for the vast majority of the surgeries. Frankly there is even a measurable number of parents buying breast jobs for their daughter's sixteenth - as sick as that is. There have been a few articles reporting this twisted birthday present - I doubt it happens often, but a cousin of mine did get a pair that her daddy paid for. I'm quite sure the parents don't want their baby girl to emulate Jenna Jameson or even Pam Anderson. It is just that big breasts have always been a symbol of fertility, sexuality, beauty and so on - large breasts throughout history have almost always been popular. As for Hollywood Celebrities with boob jobs, there are quite a few: Christina Aguilera Victoria "Posh Spice" Beckham Linda Blair (now removed) Shannon Elizabeth (probably) Vivica Fox Paris Hilton (brand new this March) Iman Janet Jackson Nicole Kidman Heidi Klum Lil' Kim Heather Locklear Andie MacDowell Madonna (probably) Alyssa Milano Demi Moore Brittany Murphy Dolly Parton Tara Reid Nicole Richie Julia Roberts Britney Spears Tori Spelling Gwen Stefani Raquel Welch Hollywood has been favorable toward breast implants for a very long time. Part of the reason that it isn't always wildly apparent is that the more respected stars go for smaller implants to keep a natural look - sometimes going up as little as one cup size or less. Also, cosmetic surgery has become quite a popular topic - who has had what done and who hasn't. Reality shows and topical fictional shows ("Nip Tuck") have popped up based on plastic surgery. Just like tanning or any of a million other beauty secrets - people are always looking for the Fountain of Youth (and beauty), no matter how crazy or painful the path to it is. Plus, as pointed out earlier, porn isn't wildly popular other than for a quick joke or filling a time-slot now and again. The only stars the average person can name would be Ron Jeremy, John Holmes (because of the shootings) and Jenna Jameson. Sure, others have been featured - but people forget quickly. I don't really count Playmates as porn stars since they tend not to do real porn and stick to the celebrity gossip scene whenever possible. I say Hollywood and a breast-focused society drives breast implants and it drives that impulse more-so within the adult entertainment community. To paraphrase Dr. Frank-N-Furter: Porn isn't the cause, it is the symptom. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo Edited on Apr 21, 2008, 10:35pm (Toadsith: Typo.) | |
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| 04-22-08 01:27am - 6088 days | #46 | |
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malikstarks (0)
Active User Posts: 108 Registered: Nov 19, '07 Location: Florida |
Toadsith your points are well taken (as always). I was not aware of the prevalence of the implant procedure in Hollywood, particularly among the "A listers". (naive on my part) However I do believe that for the most part we are on the same page. The point I have made at least a couple of times (as you have also) is that the real question is 'Is sex (in general) too mainstream? As Sex has gone from novelty to commodity in society at large; porn has simply followed suit, in order to accommodate the needs of men under ever increasing sexual tension. The demand has created the supply. I would however disagree with the point that has been made, that a lack of mainstream porn stars belies a lack of clout, or power, on the part of the industry as a whole. It's just not that kind of business. It will ALWAYS remain in the shadows, at least to some extent, but it HAS become mainstream in it's own way. Let's face it, this is the kind of industry that goes through talent at an extremely rapid pace. Unlike mainstream actors, most porn stars (the women) make more AT THE BEGINNING of their career than they do toward middle(like mainstream actresses) or the end. Most probably last a year or two, after all of the major studios (and porn sites) are done filming them a few times. What other industry could sustain and even THRIVE on such a turnover in it's workforce, and make no mistake, porn IS thriving like no time it's history. The numbers simply don't lie: world wide porn revenues are nearly twice the amount of mainstream movies.(globally) As well, the porn industry in 2006 grossed more than companies like Microsoft, Google, Apple, and eBay combined at nearly 100 billion dollars. If you are looking for cues from the 'traditional' mainstream media your not likely to find very many, but if that ain't mainstream, I don't know what is. (The link is below for those who want to look at the stats yourself.) http://internet-filter-review.toptenrevi...aphy-statistics.html Edited on Apr 22, 2008, 02:10am | |
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| 07-16-08 04:25pm - 6002 days | #47 | |
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StacieAdams (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 10 Registered: Feb 19, '08 Location: San Francisco, CA |
Here ya go Toadsith, re: "I'm curious if you happen to recall the study that reported those figures. I wouldn't be surprised at all that women tend to keep their porn surfing habits secret, but I would be surprised if 80% of women do surf for it - that is quite a few." that figure of 80% is awfully close to the 70% this study reported in early '07 of women who keep their porn surfing habits a secret: http://internet-filter-review.toptenrevi...tistics.html#anchor7 They say 1 in 3 adult site visitors are women and there are 9.4 million women visiting porn sites per month! If this is true, it really makes a case for something I hope to do here at GameLink.com Adult Movies site...create more categories and lists to help women and couples find the kind of porn women like. But everyone assumes it's only for men. If you are a woman who watches porn, please email me some suggestions for what you like. We do have a good start ... a list of porn for couples at http://www.gamelink.com/naked_truth.jhtm...?id=musthave_couples Are any of our other lists of interest to women who watch porn or couples out there? http://www.gamelink.com/naked_truth.jhtml?id=lists Stacie Stacie Adams - GameLink.com : Find Your Favorite Adult Movies, Scenes and Sex Toys - VOD in many formats, No Membership Fees, Best Customer Service 800-944-3933 x138 - Hook up with me on: http://twitter.com/stacieadams http://www.myspace.com/gamelink | |
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| 07-17-08 02:14am - 6002 days | #48 | |
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CaliFornicator (0)
Active User  Posts: 9 Registered: Jul 02, '08 Location: Earth |
Staying on the vintage topic does any one know of any vintage porn sites so that us 20 somethings can catch up on the classics? Id be interested in checking that out...The fist porn I ever saw was a VHS tape i stole from my best friends dad... | |
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| 07-17-08 09:50am - 6002 days | #49 | |
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Toadsith (0)
Active User Posts: 936 Registered: Dec 07, '07 Location: USA |
Thanks for that link - it is pretty interesting and while they are relying on self reporting sources it should still be a pretty good indicator of trends. There are some contradictions in their reports though - for example - they said that 9.4 mil women visit porn sites each month and that 33% of porn site visitors are women but they just stated that 40 mil adults regularly visit porn sites - making that number closer to 25%. The other thing that is somewhat deceiving is that they state that 70% is the percentage of women that keep their cyber activities secret. That just means that 70% of the women that surf porn don't actively tell people that they surf porn - rather than 70% of women are surfing porn. My guess is we'll have to wait for a massive online study like that cellphone tracking study in Europe that was released earlier this year to really nail down some of these topics. Of course that requires a lot money so until Google or another giant decides it is important we'll have to make do with the info that is available. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo | |
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| 07-17-08 02:55pm - 6002 days | #50 | |
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StacieAdams (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 10 Registered: Feb 19, '08 Location: San Francisco, CA |
OK guys, here goes. You asked for it, I will play ;-) I must say I am so excited to hear some men admitting to wanting women's opinions. I have been arguing for a long time that if our opinions were more present at GameLink it would help not only women looking for porn but men who don't like the fake LA stuff, so your post is quite validating and will be shared with the team here... Yes, I do work for GameLink, and I am a real bisexual adventurous woman who likes adult entertainment. Here's the deal. I refuse to sit around and shill for the company, and my arrangement is that I am allowed to be real and offer my personal opinions here. So what I am about to say is my honest opinion, not some PR crap. I will admit that I never watched much porn before working here. I tended to read books and look at still photos. I do love going to strip clubs and getting lap dances, engage in BDSM play and like erotic entertainment in general, but like most of you the fake stuff out of LA just bores me and I find it a turn off. But the amateur stuff features too many closeups of genitals with bad lighting and most of all....I can't stand it if the furniture and sheets and outfits don't match or are in poor taste, lol. It really ruins my hard on ;-) Plot-based flicks are a turn off for me too, in general but I have found a few I like. That said, prior to getting into this as a job I did like Andrew Blake's stuff. http://www.gamelink.com/display_category.jhtml?id=cat10986 Now that I review scenes for the company from time to time, I have found some stuff I like personally: http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml?id=301727 Loved this because I am now a huge fan of Penny Flame and the reality in these scenes mixed with hot sex is really hot for me I also love most of Tristan Taormino's reality porn: http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml?id=49273 Very hot title! http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml;?id=293686 Another Penny Flame title, I really like this one a lot. Love this title, a classic http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml?id=306237 Love this one too: http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml?id=272748 Stars: Nina Hartley, can't get enough of her and Belladonna, just saw her in http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml?id=280770 and loved it more than I expected to. As for genres: I tend to love Asian women doing solos, really any women doing solos are HOT! http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml?id=299300 much less fake than other genes in general and I love it when they look into the camera and get turned on by being watched, it's kinda like they are just one on one with me. http://www.gamelink.com/display_category.jhtml?id=cat10953 I think Little Lupe is hot: http://www.gamelink.com/display_product.jhtml?id=297273 and so is Jordan Capri http://www.gamelink.com/display_star.jhtml;?id=87949 And more reality porn with hot real girls being real and not fake: http://www.gamelink.com/display_studio.jhtml?id=3773 I usually post when I really like something to my twitter profile http://twitter.com/stacieadams and I do the posts to http://twitter.com/GameLink so you will see a mix of our editorial dept. and my own prefs there. And for the folks wanting classics, here's a ton of it: http://www.gamelink.com/display_category.jhtml?id=cat10908 Now, this will sound promotional, and it is, but many people I ask about our site mention to me something I love about it as well...since there is a lot of porn each of us doesn't like, the ability to sample it buy the minute in our pay per minute program is the best way to discover new stuff without getting stuck with a bunch of porn that sucks. Our scenes page lets you search by similar actions, stars, and keywords so if you find a scene you like, our system helps you find more like that. http://www.gamelink.com/scene/scene_main.jhtml Sorry for the enormous post. I am so glad you asked! I will drop back by soon when I find some more good stuff for ya! Find me on facebook if you are there http://www.facebook.com/pages/GameLinkcom/14821167567 and myspace.com/gamelink as I run both of those profiles and check the inboxes there more often than here. happy wanking guys (and gals, c'mon, join in!) Stacie Stacie Adams - GameLink.com : Find Your Favorite Adult Movies, Scenes and Sex Toys - VOD in many formats, No Membership Fees, Best Customer Service 800-944-3933 x138 - Hook up with me on: http://twitter.com/stacieadams http://www.myspace.com/gamelink | |
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