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| Porn Users Forum » What will happen to Max Hardcore when he gets out of jail? |
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| 06-09-10 03:59pm - 5272 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
What will happen to Max Hardcore when he gets out of jail? When Max Hardcore gets out of jail, will he simply move to Europe and pick up where he left off? Or is this even possible? I haven’t followed the case too closely, but would the feds have seized all his material or can the U.S. government just seize the copyright? It seems to me that Max could pretty much get back in business mere days after getting out of prison if he wanted. Probably within a short period of time he could be producing new stuff again. Of course he’d never be able to go home for Christmas again, but maybe he could have Christmas dinner with Roman Polanski. Any thoughts on what Max may or would even be able to do? Or has his time in the sun faded now with no chance of a comeback? | |
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| 06-09-10 04:32pm - 5272 days | #2 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
How much value is there in moving to Europe, or South America, or anyplace else, unless you are moving to a country that has poor relations with the United States? Polanski is a French citizen, who was grabbed in Switzerland. He had not broken any French law or Swiss law that caused him to be grabbed and locked up. He had broken a U.S. law. And that was many years ago. Over 30 years ago. So if Max gets out of jail and starts producing or selling porn again, what's to stop the U.S. authorities from grabbing him again, even if he's outside of the U.S.? Who's going to stand up and say the U.S. can't grab him, or issue an arrest warrant, and have some foreign country's law enforcement seize Max and put him in jail, pending extradition? Max would need a country with poor relations with the U.S., and one that would also tolerate his producing porn, if he wants to produce porn safely. And then he would have to kiss his U.S. citizenship goodbye, because it could be "straight to jail" if he ever came back. This is a case where it just doesn't pay to fight big government. | |
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| 06-09-10 07:30pm - 5272 days | #3 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
He just needs to find a country that's run by adults (hint: it would have to be outside the U.S.) who are rational, reasonable, smart, and, yes, grown up enough to realize porn is neither a 'moral' nor a 'value' problem, but simply something that many normal consenting adults enjoy around the world. If he starts shooting and producing in Europe then he only has to worry about the authorities there--and that would be relatively little worry in comparison to the U.S.--not the ones here who at most could seize his material in customs (so they could watch it over and over again for themselves...  ).His case makes me sick to my stomach, and not because of all the literal  in his later videos (though that doesn't help) but because every time some asshole claims that terrorists hate us for our freedom or that we are the freest country on earth I then wonder why do we still waste our time investigating and prosecuting porn makers such as Max. Just make sure he's not working with underage talent and that everyone has given consent. Leave defining obscene to the media's 'experts' in their make-believe culture wars. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-09-10 07:43pm - 5272 days | #4 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I think that Max has only 2 choices. He can either move to Europe where the laws that found him guilty don't exist or he can choose to do only internet content. I favor the later since moving to Europe is one hell of a move when you've lived your entire life in the US. Don't forget that he wasn't found guilty of producing offensive movies but of shipping them to a State that did. I know that it's more a case of entrapment because of how it all went down but the fact remains that he was found guilty and sentenced to prison. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-09-10 08:50pm - 5272 days | #5 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
He has a site based outside the US selling his stuff so his business is back and I assume he'll join it. He's pretty much a one-trick pony so I doubt that he'll change his style. | |
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| 06-09-10 10:18pm - 5271 days | #6 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Governments never seem to be very good at the what, when, where, and why, as long as they get the who right--in this case Max Hardcore. Back in the '30s the government could only convict Al Capone on tax evasion charges, not organized crime or murder, but they convicted him nonetheless. Hell, I bet if they ever caught Bin Laden they would only try him for crimes that occurred in the '90s, without even bringing up 9/11. Max was convicted on transporting and shipping the 'obscenity' in question, not actually producing it, which I doubt would have gotten him imprisoned (though during the Bush II years I really would not have been that surprised). Saying something is one thing, and it's usually protected--that pesky 1st Amendment gets in the way--but transportation is a whole other issue, and in Max's case it was sadly a crime.  I don't think he was ever a specific target of the DOJ or anyone in the Bush II White House from the very beginning of the first term--maybe just in the backs of their minds--but once they pulled that Obscenity Prosecution Task Force out of their ass in 2005 they were probably looking for the more blatantly hardcore of the hardcore pornographers to charge and Max fit the bill. Playboy he is (was?) not! "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove Edited on Jun 09, 2010, 10:24pm | |
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| 06-10-10 12:39pm - 5271 days | #7 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
I think Max has said that he intends to return to making adult vids once he gets out. However, he'll probably be on probation for some period of time and his probation terms may prohibit him from making porn (I think he's looking at 3 years of probation when he gets out; which won't happen for another year or two). So, don't expect to see him back right away, at least on video. I suppose he could move to Europe but why? He's an internet based guy so where he shoots from is irrelevant. If he's on probation he'll be prohibited from moving abroad anyway. My guess is that he'll focus more on the European market for his wares and less so here while working on his So. Cal. tan. | |
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| 06-10-10 02:48pm - 5271 days | #8 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
The funny thing is that it was an undercover FBI agent that ordered the Max video's to be shipped to Florida. That smells of entrapment but like you said. Once the Government wants you. They can bend the law to get you. I actually think that he was a target because he was the easiest one to go after. I was a big fan of Max's older material but what he produced in the last few years was not my idea of good porn. He did push a lot of boundaries and because of what he did. His head stuck above everyone elses when it came to being pretty easy to sway a jury. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-10-10 09:24pm - 5271 days | #9 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I don't think he lost his house in the case (at least not that I'm aware of) and it has all that bright furniture and easy to clean tile floors that he loves, so maybe he would want to stay in California. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove Edited on Jun 10, 2010, 09:46pm | |
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| 06-10-10 09:42pm - 5271 days | #10 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Yeah, it was total bullshit, and I hate entrapment  because it makes the government look more guilty than the supposed criminals, who are criminals in great part due to the actions of law enforcement. Something really stinks when a crime has to be created in order to catch a target in the first place. The same shit happened with Tommy Chong and his glass bong business; a big order from a law enforcement agent posing as a civilian who kept fucking with Chong's business until it would have been a large financial loss for them to just cancel the order. Assholes! Could they, oh if even for just a few hours, spent a bit of that law enforcement time, money, and manpower on something worth pursuing. Are these morons not aware of the 9/11 attacks and how obvious they made the necessity of law enforcement to track those intending to attack and kill people, not those who just what to help them get stoned or tape them fucking?  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-12-10 10:06am - 5269 days | #11 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I wasn't aware that there was an internet loophole. It must be that the criminal laws under which Max was convicted were old enough that they only covered physical things like books and DVDs. Interesting... | |
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| 06-12-10 10:16am - 5269 days | #12 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I recall seeing a documentary on Tommy Chong's arrest and eventual conviction on shipping water bongs across a state line into a state where they were prohibited. That was almost certainly a case of entrapment since the "customer" set Chong up so that the only way his business could continue was to ship this order. Governments prosecuting morality crimes really pisses me off. Unless its my morality that they're enforcing, and then I'm fine with it, of course  As for Max being beyond the U.S. law by being in Europe, that may also come with some risks. The U.S. does have a history of getting whatever they want regardless of international law. An extreme example, and not entirely applicable I realize, is the invasion of Panama to "arrest" Manuel Noriega. A Canadian was recently extradicted to the U.S. because he had a lawful business in Canada selling marijuana seeds by mail. He shipped to Americans and though his business was legal in Canada and he never actually did business in the U.S. they put out a warrant for him. The sad thing is that the Canadian justice system just rolled over and played ball. There's another Canadian who from ran an online gambling site from the Cayman Islands. He took business from U.S. customers and that got him arrested in Canada (for something that isn't a crime in Canada and where the servers were in the Caymans) and shipped to the U.S. where he may still be doing time. That's even weirder since gambling is legal under some circumstances. If max does go back to producing new content, I wonder if he'll pull back. I find with Max's stuff that I've seen it's like watching a train wreck - you know there's gonna be carnage, but you can't help but watch. He's a strange man. | |
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| 06-12-10 01:11pm - 5269 days | #13 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Why don't they let out Dr. Kevorkian?...he's done a hell've lot more for humanity......Law enforcment..go figure Edited on Jun 12, 2010, 01:36pm | |
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| 06-12-10 01:14pm - 5269 days | #14 | |||
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I have serious doubts about my government's 'morality.' It's the same morality that allows the use of the death penalty, including on the mentally retarded. Is that moral? Or how about the unwavering refusal to enact universal access to health care, even just for those under 18. Is that moral? How about misleading an entire country into a large multi-year war on the premise that if we didn't we could all be dead? Is that moral as well? If this is what our government considers 'moral' then I want to have nothing to do with them. They can tell me to stop looking at naked ladies when they begin to show the slightest respect and dignity for human life and liberty. And even then I will be extremely skeptical.
Ah yes, the most expensive arrest warrant in history. Enough said. --- And your final great point:
He may be strange but what does it say about all of us who cannot stop watching? He's only doing what his fans obviously want to see, or at least what they are willing to tolerate, which may be closer to each other than we realize. The line between "more, please" and "that's enough right there, mister" is a fine one indeed, and ol' Max made a career out of exploring and exploiting it to, well, the max. He hired the girls, he convinced them to be in at least one scene, and he caught it all on tape for us to witness (or enjoy, if that's your cup of tea), but ultimately the viewers bought them, so who's more guilty? Hell, even the fucking authorities bought the 'obscene' material--he didn't exactly shove it down their throats like they had just walked on one of his sets in pigtails and crazy teen makeup. But you can't arrest everybody (yet...) so go after the pervy old man with a camera and nice house who has the balls to "wreck" a few trains. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |||
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| 06-12-10 08:52pm - 5269 days | #15 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I'm not sure if what you mean is sarcasm, but if not, I'm in full agreement with you. My own death is one of the last things I can have control over. If I ever get a daignosis of terminal whatever I'll take matters into my own hands. The sad thing is that any choice I can make is limited due to right-wing fundies. The choices are difficult for me and messy for those left behind. I'd far rather if there was a Dr. Kevorkian willing to make it more simple and humane. Fuck I hate fundamentalists... M | |
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| 06-13-10 01:30am - 5268 days | #16 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I believe he's been out for a while now. I saw him in a television interview a few weeks back...and he seemed healthy as well. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-13-10 01:37am - 5268 days | #17 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Who could also give you a diagnosis via video as well! Hey, it worked for Terri Schiavo, at least until her feeding tube was removed, because, despite politicians and judges swooping in to the save the day, they found out they have no right to intervene in a family's personal end-of-life matters. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-13-10 06:17pm - 5268 days | #18 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Here is the main problem with opening this pandora's box. If you allow euthanasia for people with terminally diseases then it's only a question of time until someone mentions people that aren't terminal but may suffer greatly and then somehow it's now people that have a serious physical disability that will affect their entire life. In that possible future, you know what might. and I do stress, might happen. No Steve Hawkins would be allowed to live because it's too cruel and inhumane of us to make a man suffer what he suffers daily. How long before we think the suffering elderly should be put to sleep? As it currently stands many terminally ill people are allowed to die on their own terms. It's called morphine. Doctors are quite aware that a high enough does will kill the patient and yet they still prescribe it. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-13-10 06:21pm - 5268 days | #19 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
There are no current internet laws that prevent anyone from vieweing any of max's movies and that includes his European versions. Max would never have been accused if he was a purely internet producer. His crime was that the movies were shipped to a State that has certain laws about the content. Seymore Butts was also accused because of something that was shipped to Florida. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-13-10 09:54pm - 5267 days | #20 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
That will be held off for as long as the prescription drug industry can afford to--in other words, for a loooong time. Nothing can stand in the way of profit, not even mere mortals in their extreme old age! In theory we already try to prevent even the births of possibly weaker and disabled people with elective abortion, and also to an extent with artificial insemination using either donor sperm or eggs (prospective parents actively select the donor with the 'best' traits). But actual euthanasia doesn't seem very likely in the West, specifically the U.S., where health and medicine is a big business (okay, maybe only the U.S.) and prolonging life, even in extreme cases, is pursued because someone will make a profit off of it. Sorry to put it so coldly but the U.S. has the highest prescription drug prices in the world, and even with recent legislation to help 'cover' those on Medicare someone still has to foot the bill. If the funeral industry ever built a strong lobby then euthanasia might become a serious issue but right now too many moneyed interests have their finger in the pie on this one and end-of-life care, if you can even call it that, seems to be pushed above everything else. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-13-10 11:30pm - 5267 days | #21 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
I don't know if it was "sarcasm" or not, so I'll expand my thoughts comparing the two cases and it might be clearer. All I know about Max Hardcore is from what I've observed here in this forum, and from that nothing remotely good. And, in fact a societal menace. Making a random comparison about another case being delt the same kind of justice except being the antithesis of all Max represents -- namely, a genuine caring man who shows boundless compassion for those suffering -- is what prompted my post. Both men, being polar opposites, with the only thing in common being persecuted and made an example by our justice system. Max can rot. But if there ever was a man who should've never been labled a criminal it would be, hands-down, this planet's angel of mercy Doctor Kevorkian. | |
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| 06-14-10 11:03am - 5267 days | #22 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Um, some might disagree with Max being considered a "societal menace" but yes, plenty of people don't like his twist on porn, whether or not it's legal. I would argue though that both him and Dr. Kevorkian would be for consenting adults to be able to freely make their personal choices on their own, without interference from a higher authority. Obviously there's a big difference between the right to die and the right to a boner (for starters, one stops your heart the other speeds it up) but both historically have been disputed over and over again because apparently people don't have the authority, knowledge, whatever, to make such decisions for themselves, at least according to the powers that be. If we did and there was no problem, people we be a lot more free to do as this wish to and with themselves without involvement from others. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove Edited on Jun 15, 2010, 12:32pm | |
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| 06-14-10 03:05pm - 5267 days | #23 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Gee, turbo, I don't know which deserves the louder applaude: whether it be the wisdom of your "big difference " argument.  Or the philosophical humor in "(for starters, one stops your heart the other speeds it up)."  I suppose I should've approached the subject with more logic and familiarity, but the contrast between these two personalities being served the same kind of being-made-an- example-of justice, just opened the door for me to sound off about something close to my heart. I did get something out of it. Learning Dr. Kevorkian was finally out of the slammer. | |
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| 06-15-10 12:36pm - 5266 days | #24 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Thanks, lately I've been working to improve my death-and-dick combo jokes and it's nice to see it has paid off!  "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-16-10 01:18am - 5265 days | #25 | |
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shooterbo (0)
Active User  Posts: 185 Registered: Apr 25, '07 |
Somebody will piss on him and he will melt. | |
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| 01-25-11 01:34pm - 5042 days | #26 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Now it's time for everyone to check on their predictions. Max has "been on the lose" since January 21st. He's been paroled and has returned to the LA area to serve out a few months of time in a halfway house and/or house arrest. After that, he's still on probation for a few more years. Guess that means we won't be getting any more shock vids from him for a while yet. | |
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| 01-25-11 02:52pm - 5042 days | #27 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
His website's set up outside the US - has been for a long time. I don't know what the terms of his probation are, but he might be back to making dirty pik-cha's again before too long. | |
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| 01-25-11 04:40pm - 5042 days | #28 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I was watching a Max video last weekend (yes, I'll admit I'm a bit of a fan of some of his stuff) and I noted how he went out of his way, in a monologue before the action started, to remind the viewers that they were about to see acting. All models were legal, and all consented. Max is also the only director/producer I'm aware of who runs an ad telling people who are sexually active to be careful about STDs and get tested. As much as Max creeped a lot of people out, i'm still convinced that he was targeted by the religious conservatives. | |
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| 01-25-11 06:53pm - 5042 days | #29 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I never minded Max because his videos were so ludicrous. There was always this Little Red Riding Hood in her mid twenties, made up to look like a teen, pleading in a girlish voice for the big bad wolf to spare her. I can still hear it in my nightmares: "What are you doing, Mister?" as Max was putting on his monster act. He was crude, he made me cringe .. but jail? | |
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| 01-25-11 07:44pm - 5042 days | #30 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I was once a huge Max Hardcore fan but that's going back to his early stuff. I've found almost none of the stuff that he's done in the last decade remotely close to being sexually stimulating. I never had a problem with him dressing the performers as little school girls and having them play that type of part. The chocking, drooling, vomiting, pissing and weird sexual positions is where he lost me as a fan. In his defense, his style has been copied by many directors and performers and that 's why a lot of todays gonzo porn is nearly unwatchable. I think that what Max will do will greatly depend on his probation. If he's allowed to produce porn again then I think that's exactly what he will do. I think that he'll only do online content for the next few years as there are very few chances of having charges brought against him for online porn. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 01-26-11 02:59pm - 5041 days | #31 | |
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jberryl69 (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,000 Registered: Nov 27, '10 Location: neverland |
Max killed how many people? And Dr. K helped how many people end their own terminal lives? Both put in jail. But how many people did Bush & Chaney manage to kill in the name of "good"? No jail for them lying scumbags. Or BP? How many people did they kill, poison and put out of work? No jail for them scumbags either. Is there something wrong with this picture?  If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat! | |
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| 01-26-11 03:43pm - 5041 days | #32 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^I don't think the question was whether we thought that Max was a worse criminal then another person but what will he do now. You have given some excellent names of persons that did far worse things than Max but what do you think he will do? Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 01-26-11 10:05pm - 5040 days | #33 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I'm always curious what all the hardcore self-proclaimed libertarians think when it comes to cases like Max Hardcore's--why is it the government's business what consenting adults do with their private sex lives and interests, including their porn viewing habits? Would current "libertarian" nutbags like Glenn Beck or Ron Paul give a damn what happens to someone like this as long as their taxes start to go down or disappear? Or why is it that the 1st Amendment (covering free speech) is more open to interpretation than, say, the 2nd (right to bare arms)? How messed up is a society when sex and drugs are more scary, not to mention more criminal, than building a personal arsenal, or refusing medical insurance? Just my own cynical  but I have no idea what will happen now that Max is out. I hope for his own sake he just says "Fuck it!" and leaves this country for some place that doesn't have such a puerile interest in imaginary "morals" that are more about restricting freedom than instilling decency in people. I don't like his movies that much either; they make me feel about the same way I do when I slow down to try and look at an accident on the side of the road--guilty, ashamed, yet somehow helpless. But these are really just my opinions, and seeing as he was all about testing, consent, and legally aged models I don't see what the fucking problem is. If he breaks into my home to drag some poor girl to piss and puke all over the carpet then I have a problem (well, actually a couple of problems) but until that occurs...grow up and try imprisoning some real criminals! (I think this is a RagingBuddhist-worthy rant. ) "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 01-27-11 10:01am - 5040 days | #34 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Nice rant, turboshaft. RB would be proud of you, and I do agree with your observations! | |
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| 01-30-11 03:28pm - 5037 days | #35 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I've come to a conclusion after reading what some of these hardcore libertarians write and hearing what some of them say. It seems to me that they push limited government for corporate interests but are still pretty happy with the thought that government can be used to impose a certain morality on the citizens. Here in Canada several years ago we legalized same sex marriages which sent the conservatives off the deep end. It was confusing to have heard them go on and on about smaller government but as soon as a so-called morality issue cropped up suddenly they weren't so libertarian. I had a modest proposal to resolve the issue if we weren't going to let gay people marry and have all the same benefits that I have: cut their taxes so they aren't paying for what we deny them. Of course that went over like a lead balloon with the morality crowd too. On another Max related note, I was looking for a Max scene where he screws Summer Luv in a helicopter over Brazil. I googled it to find which movie it was in and instead ended up reading about one of the worst Max scenes that reviewers saw they ever saw. It had Max, Summer Luv and Catalina. I think it was one of Summer Luv's first Max appearances because she went on to star in many more. By coincidence, I happened to have the scene so I watched it. It is waaaaay over the top, even for Max. But the funny thing was that during the scene Catalina is vaginally fisting Summer Luv and Max obviously says something like "Yeah, fist that 12 year old pussy" but the word twelve (assuming it is twelve, but maybe thirteen or some other illegal age) is crudely overdubbed with a male voice obviously not Max saying "nineteen." It is so badly done that it is extremely funny. And then the puking starts in the scene and it pretty quickly ceases to be funny. I'm a bit of a Max fan, bit only his older material where he was still creepy and still pretty hardcore, but was far from the batshit-crazy stuff he did later in his career. Hell, he even ate pussy in those older movies, demonstrating that he could decide to give pleasure to the starlet. His scene with Tammi Ann in Hitchhiker 1 still ranks as one of my all time favorites. That was also the first time I'd ever seen Tammi Ann and I was hooked at first site. | |
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| 01-30-11 06:24pm - 5037 days | #36 | |
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anyonebutme (0)
Active User  Posts: 294 Registered: Aug 23, '09 |
Even within the label "libertarian" there are a wide ranging variety of perspectives. Everyone is unique in their own ways, and on every issue. You support government control over morality  Everyone does. Morality is relative, and you just believe in a different set of morals than those you intend to mock. Edited on Jan 30, 2011, 10:13pm | |
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| 01-30-11 09:34pm - 5036 days | #37 | |
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anyonebutme (0)
Active User Posts: 294 Registered: Aug 23, '09 |
Do keep in mind that the government in most situations, this included, does not have the power to convict - that was done by a unanimous decision of all 12 jurors, jurors who were ordinary citizens. Every single one of those citizens had the power to prevent him from receiving a jail sentence. You ask "Why is it the government's business?" The better question is, why did twelve citizens, each screened and approved by the defense, all decide to convict Paul Little? Remember, we still largely have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. It just sucks when "the people" refers to everyone else Edited on Jan 31, 2011, 01:22am | |
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| 02-01-11 12:54pm - 5035 days | #38 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I think we get the various strains and permutations of libertarianism mixed up at times and this causes a lot of misunderstandings. The way libertarianism is understood by many Americans is almost a contradiction of what I (who consider myself a bit of a libertarian) understand. Here, but not in all points, is MY libertarianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_libertarianism No right wing involved here, nor any religious factions. | |
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| 02-01-11 01:06pm - 5035 days | #39 | |
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jberryl69 (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,000 Registered: Nov 27, '10 Location: neverland |
What will he do? WHAT WILL HE DO? Dammit Pat you just... you just wait man... you just wait ... You'll see what Max does - dam straight you will!! But I have no clue, I can only make social comments.  If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat! | |
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| 02-06-11 07:45am - 5030 days | #40 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User  Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
A few things I have always considered 1. Everyone has their own morality. 2. Everyone is their own law. 3. There is nearly always a choice, no matter what the law or anyone else says. 4. You don't have to obey the law, just don't get caught. 5. The law is just a set of rules made up by a bunch of crooks, liars and cheats, therfore tha law is not to be respected. 6. There is no democracy because there is no freedom of speech, therefore the democratically elected government is not democratic. 7. There is no right or wrong. It's up to the individual to decide what is right or wrong and lead their lives according to this. There is more to the truth than the above, but I have always thought there is a lot of truth in the above statements. Some of the worst flaming and narrow minded thinking can comes from spanking or bdsm enthusiasts. Some of them, consider their particular fetish or degree of pain is okay, but anything above that is considered "wrong." However, outsiders who are disgusted by their particular fetish or level, are thought to be narrow minded, as it's all about personal taste and freedom. A few years ago in the UK there was a case where a man defended himself against someone who broke into his house. It's a long time ago now, but from what I can recall the owner beat the living shit out of the thief, and it was considered to be criminal behaviour. Therefore it was the house owner who was arrested and prosecuted (this was before the Tony Martin shotgun case - personally I am glad the little fuck he shot, is dead). By the law of the land the judge instructed the jury to convict, because by law he was guilty. Against the wishes of his defence, the man made the closing statement himself, because his defending barristers could not legally make the same statement. The man basically said, even though the judge had ordered to convict, and even though by law they should convict, they don't have to. They can completely ignore the judge and the law, because by law, the final say was their's. They could find him innocent, and there was absolutely nothing the judge could do about it. He commented about how he felt and how they would feel if someone broke into their property, and it was time we were allowed to stand up for ourselves. The jury found him innocent. This infuriated not only the judge, but those in power because it shows how people can stand up for themselves, and show total contempt for the law. Not only that, the man used the law against the establishment. No wonder they are continually pushing for trial without jury in this country. Edited on Feb 06, 2011, 09:09am | |
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| 02-06-11 08:23am - 5030 days | #41 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Well spoken, fellow PUs... Never did much viewing of Max Hardcore - not really my style - but no matter - this trial against the man has almost some Kafka thing about it - what did this guy do: child porn - no. Ordinary porn - yes. What's the big difference between his productions and others in "the eyes of the law"? Do not see it. Man, you got to be some shrewed attorney general - or whatever - to take this to trial.... Does this smell of the old Larry Flint legal battles.... "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" | |
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| 02-06-11 07:33pm - 5030 days | #42 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^I was a huge Max fan until a few years ago so I saw how his style of porn changed with the years. The stuff that was used against him in court was pretty extreme for your everyday joe so that made him an obvious target for any Government trying to put the scare in the porn biz. The fact that he was one of the few doing this type of porn and was at the top just made him an even easier choice. His type of porn wasn't child pornography because we wouldn't be having this discussion and he wouldn't have come out of prison. It wasn't vanilla style porn but that wouldn't have been enough to get him in trouble. I think the biggest problem with Max's movies was that most of the girls looked uncomfortable in the shoots. Of course it's kind of hard to look comfortable while chocking on a man's penis being shoved down your throat or being slapped repeatedly in the face or being fisted or doing upside down BJ that result in major drooling or vomiting and a myriad of other weird things that were common in many of his later stuff. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 02-07-11 07:05pm - 5029 days | #43 | |
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manos86001 (0)
Suspended Posts: 5 Registered: Dec 21, '09 Location: Flagstaff |
That's true. I once saw him drilling a girl anally and then break an egg in her butt and then keep kept going at her. When you get used to that lifestyle, how could you go back? | |
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| 02-07-11 07:17pm - 5029 days | #44 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Unless it was a citizen's arrest those twelve citizens did not put him in that courtroom in the first place. Yes, if you want to get anal about it, Bush II was elected by the citizens (sort of) and in turn his administration created the anti-porn task force that eventually led to Max's conviction, but ultimately it's the government's business that this stuff ends up in a criminal court. I don't expect much out of jury trials, they are frequently pressured by the judge to only decide based on certain factors, as well as the effects of peer pressure. I don't know how I would handle trying to decide a case like that, but I seriously doubt I would be able to sway eleven people my way if they were all itching to convict. And frankly I view much of the criminal justice system as little more than civilized mob rule, but that's just my .  (Sorry it took a few days to respond, just saw your response today.) Edit: I've pretty much gotten use to "the people" referring to everyone else--I don't expect most or really any of my views to be mainstreamed anytime soon. But I still get mad when they throw a creepy pervert like Max in jail for essentially just offending people's sensibilities. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove Edited on Feb 07, 2011, 07:26pm | |
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| 02-07-11 08:06pm - 5029 days | #45 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
The label "libertarian" in the U.S. seems to have been adapted by numerous far right figures, usually under the guise that they espouse liberty, when they are actually quite opposed to it. So now whenever I hear some politician or other nut case in the media go "Oh, I'm a libertarian," it's usually code for conservative, which seems to have become a somewhat unpopular term. Even labeling the Tea Party movements conservative gets controversial and they seem to prefer the almost meaningless terms of "liberty" and "freedom," however those could be interpreted by those groups. My problem is that so many libertarians speak about social and civil liberties along with the usual complaints about taxes, government programs, and subsidies, among other things that are turning us communist/Nazi/whatever, but no politician realistically endorses both social and economic libertarian principles. Take Ron Paul, the current "libertarian" demigod, obsessed with taxes and the gold standard (because that's the root of all our problems!), while wanting to leave a lot of issues up to states. Which is great until you realize that previous civil issue battles required federal intervention--either through the courts or legislation--because, who would've guessed it, a lot of states didn't really give a shit about equal rights for all and basically told a lot of minority groups to go fuck themselves. I worry about the idea of leaving it up to "free markets" and states to determine what are in my best interests because that could easily lead to a lot more inequality and lack of legal protection for those who look different from the assholes in charge. It's very easy for somewhat in the majority to sit back and go "Ahh! Things are great! Who needs a government anyway?" if they've never been on the other end. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 03-18-11 08:00pm - 4990 days | #46 | |
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Lost500 (0)
Active User Posts: 2 Registered: Mar 18, '11 |
I am glad he is in jail. The guy is sick. Considering his videos were based on depraved acts & dressing models up in childrens clothes, he should have gotten 25 years. Good riddance to a pure sicko, hope he rots & never gets out. | |
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| 03-22-11 02:27pm - 4986 days | #47 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
I can't tell. Would you consider yourself a fan then? All joking aside, whether you like him or not (and there doesn't appear to be any in-between), Max was railroaded. His material may have been extreme, but it was consenual and broke no laws other than offending some people. | |
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| 03-22-11 09:09pm - 4986 days | #48 | |
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Jay G (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 96 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: USA |
As usual, I agree with the Rear Admiral. It's a slippery slope when you start jailing "sick" people. The Taliban is much more efficient and stones women who don't where blankets over their face. Christian Religious Conservatives hate the Taliban because they envy them and really would like to get back to burning witches themselves. The terrible thing about freedom is that people start to think that everyone deserves it, not just the privileged classes. Jay G | |
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| 03-23-11 12:44pm - 4985 days | #49 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
And as usual, I agree with Jay G. Well said with the references to the Taliban. The Taliban and western Christian fundamentalists are a lot alike. The big difference is people like us who don't let the religious nuts impose their twisted views on everyone. | |
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| 03-24-11 04:15pm - 4984 days | #50 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
This could actually cover a lot of other porn as well. Max just combined many of the acts and did them all himself. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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