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| Porn Users Forum » How do they know? |
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| 03-07-12 01:01pm - 4673 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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shooterbo (0)
Active User  Posts: 185 Registered: Apr 25, '07 |
How do they know? Sometimes I wonder how observers know that we are viewing "legal pornography" as opposed to "illegal"? I hear often that authorities show up to investigate someones computer. Has anyone ever been a victim of false charges, and what can we do to prevent such travesty? | |
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| 03-07-12 05:54pm - 4672 days | #2 | |
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rearadmiral (0)
Active User Posts: 1,453 Registered: Jul 16, '07 Location: NB/Canada |
First let me say that I’m speaking only from speculation and some news reports that I heard and read over the past while. To answer your question on how do they know, I’d guess that part of it is because the police troll websites where there is anything porn related looking for illegal stuff. That’s just a guess, but it seems reasonable. I have no doubt that they’ve popped in here and read a few reviews and threads. I’d like to think that they’d quickly realize that the mods run a VERY tight ship and the members don’t seem to have any interest in illegal porn and move on. I’d like to think that, but my inner skeptic says that they’d probably hang around wasting their time here. Who knows, maybe one or more of the cops took out a membership based on a review… To further answer your question, I suspect that in most cases they’d have to actually see what you’re downloading to determine if it was illegal or legal. But I suspect that just the nature of the site would clearly be a tip-off. I say that because I suspect (and hope) that the days of just typing ‘kiddie porn’ into a search engine are long over. From what I’m told by people in law enforcement, those days aren’t over, but I’m inclined to think that they’re exaggerating. I say that because every bust of illegal porn in Canada that gets reported seems to involve some sort of private forum where this stuff gets traded. That’s why in most cases there are multiple arrests across the country on a single operation. Now here’s where my skepticism really gets going. I don’t trust that police and prosecutors always have the truth as a goal. I think that the zeal to get child porn stopped (as noble a goal as that is) blinds them to common sense sometimes. I recall reading of a child porn case in the U.S. where the prosecutor actually brought in a physician to examine the photos seized to give an opinion based on physical traits whether the person in the photo was over 18 or under 18. That should send shivers down anyone’s spine if a prosecutor thinks that this is any way to run a case. I don’t recall how the case turned out, but I hope it got thrown out. How can you not find reasonable doubt with an ‘expert’ who says that based on a photo he can tell if a girl is 17 years and 364 days old versus 18 years old? Would you trust this guy to look at your collection of Amai Liu or Kat photos? You’d be married to the man with the most cigarettes in Cellblock D in a heartbeat. The other thing that gets my spidey-sense tingling on this is the way the police and prosecutors sell the stories to the media. I realize that the media are willing partners in this. As Homer once said to Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen. I’ve seen, heard and read of stories where the media report that a person has been charged with possessing child porn and he had over 100,000 photos in his collection. Then, as an afterthought, it’s mentioned that about 300 of them were illegal. So that says to me that the other 99,700 were legal. As in they may have been MILF pics, but the damage is done. Hmmm… while I’m thinking of it, several years ago there was a couple arrested in a neighbouring city for producing child porn. Apparently they were taking photos of their 14 year old daughter and they were going on the web. Early in the story I remember distinctly that the police were admitting that in none of the pictures was the girl actually nude. That detail was dropped in later stories and the family was convicted and the daughter removed from the home. The defence was that the parents, at the request of the girl who wanted to be a model, had taken sets of photos and sold them to a U.S. site that acted as an agent for teen girls. Yes, I’m suspicious of that too, but in my opinion to have child porn you need children and you need porn. But we all know that’s wrong because a director could dress a 30 year old woman in pigtails and the authorities could come down on them hard. The final thing I’ll mention is that several years ago I heard a story on a CBC radio documentary show about child porn busts. The premise of the story was that the cops don’t do their homework all the time. The story was based around a real tragedy. It seems that back in the wild-west days of the internet before the police really started to figure it out, you actually could find child porn sites and whip out your credit card and become a member. One of these sites was run out of Texas and the owners covered both sides of the fence by offering illegal and legal porn. The offices eventually got raided and some of the credit card numbers that the site had were from buyers in Canada. The police in Texas did the right thing and sent those numbers to the RCMP in Canada. With a caveat: the company ran an illegal site and a legal site and there is no way to tell from the records who subscribed to what so these are merely a starting point. But what did the RCMP and local police forces do? You guessed it: they arrested everyone and charged them with buying child porn. Names of the charged were published. Lives were ruined. Imagine that you subscribed to “Hairy MILFs” and suddenly find yourself an outcast for being a child pornographer. It happened. Eventually it all got sorted out, but not before a few guys killed themselves. And I doubt that many of the other innocent men ever really got their lives back together. The moral of the story, as concluded by the journalists, was that police and the media need to be more careful in these matters and check the facts carefully. No more running with a story just to satisfy the masses. The very next day, I kid you not, there was a small child porn bust in the country with a handful of guys being arrested. Guess how long the CBC journalists heeded their own advice? Less than a day. As to how to avoid getting swept up and being wrongfully accused? I only deal with sites that have a clear 2257 certification for one thing. But only dealing with sites that you find on TBP and PU helps. And I try to only deal with sites that use reputable billers. My hope is that all of those tactics significantly reduces my risk. It also reduces my risk of credit card fraud and identity theft. But it likely wouldn’t stop someone from accusing you of having illegal porn based on those videos with the lass named Aubrey Addams. I once had an ex-girlfriend of mine call me in tears because she discovered her husband was looking at child porn. She knew where he was getting it too: a site called Ampland. I’m not a regular to Ampland but I know it well enough to know that there’s nothing illegal there. Imagine if she called the police on him? I’d like to think that they’d quickly realize the site was legal, but I wouldn’t bet my future on it. | |
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| 03-08-12 10:47am - 4672 days | #3 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Good thread, I was unsure by your question if you were referring to illegal downloaded porn or illegal content. I will address both in what I think. 1. Illegal downloads are just that illegal downloading. If you go to what is called torrent site that are in nature and claimed to be peer to peer to improve downloading of freeware. Why the case is many torrents have lots of freeware along with reviews helps a person decide. There is also allot of software illegally downloaded and and in turn porn. However there are ways to tag porn especially AVI's and MOV formats, what that means is the movie file contains a IP tracker and when you open it it logs on their server you downloaded an illegal placed porn. Is this entrapment? No because private firms not police are doing it. Their goal is not to catch you downloading their porn, their goal is to get you booted off your ISP for copyright infringements. So my opinion private firm not police are after your illegally downloaded porn. Now illegal content is a slippery slope as RearAdmiral points out the proof is hard to get. You guys ever watch Cris Hansen to catch a predator on MSNBC ? This is how they work in theory they sell you what you think is illegal content and then your nailed. Kinda like the undercover cop that sells you fake weed, you thought it was real so the crime still exists. This is my take from cop friends I have talked with. I only trust a few cops as most I have seen lie to get a bust over and over again. but thats another rant. Since 2007 | |
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| 03-08-12 03:15pm - 4672 days | #4 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
The basic answer to the original question is that the authorities track your IP address. While you may clean out your cookies and web history regularly, your ISP tracks all the sites you go to and saves them for some period of time, from months to years. The originating website sometimes tracks your IP address too when you start downloading. Even if they don't it's simple enough to load a tracking cookie or similar virus into a download (often hidden as an mpg, jpeg or other file to avoid detection using standard virus checking software) to find out who really downloaded the offending content. There are other ways to track people as well but I believe these are the most common. It's easier than you think. Your only options are to not download illegal content or to go use an ISP that cloaks or rapidly changes the IP address your using so it becomes very difficult to track. I think there is some software you can use to mask an IP address but I don't know much about those or know how effective they are. | |
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| 03-09-12 09:48am - 4671 days | #5 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
The reality in allot of this is man power to enforce it, in no means do I approve of illegal downloads. However that said the enforcement is spotty at best, and open range at worse. We recently had in our county men from outta county scamming people in car deals in Craigs List ( craigs list is a free advertising site if people do not know? ) Anywho,the guy gotta away for 6 months stealing cars on CraigsList, until they could go and get him. The reports said they had his ID and IP withing a week but had no man power to do the investigation. And that was cars, now imagine you stealing a copy of In The Crack a 1.5 gig file. the odds are nill even if you downloaded hundred that you will be caught. They are after the people uploading the stuff not downloading unless you are reselling it. And after all this said the highest online issue and money spent is on illegal child material and issues with children like predators etc. And that is where It should be in my opinion. they probably have your IP but inless you are a threat they will find someone else far worse to get .  Since 2007 | |
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| 03-11-12 04:51pm - 4669 days | #6 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
What really gets me is the illegal content that can be accidentally downloaded. Everyone in this forum knows my download habits, 27/7 and balls to that wall. There was a huge bust I heard about while at work on CNN, so I started looking into the laws and the sentences they hand down to people. One guy clicked a bad link, purposely looking for child porn, and the feds game him 17 years!. This guy (around 20) was found to have one picture on his system, buried in the cache that was about 5k. This picture was tiny, sub-thumbnail size and extremely grainy, after staring at it for a while people could sorta tell what it was supposed to be. That was all they had, and 17 years!!!  Well, aside from the fact the guy admitted to it all, but he clicked on a tracked link so he was screwed anyway.So I get home all worried that I am being watched and worried there could be a few on my system. I download a lot off of usenet, that is a large part of how I decide who to subscribe to and who not too, but that is a different thread. The point is that so much of what you get off there is blindly downloaded and you do not know what is actually brought in until it is sorted through. When downloading 150 gigs a day that yields a lot to sort through. So I literally go through every drive I have. I was pleased o find that I did not have much of it. There was a little that was questionable, and nothing that was obvious. Still, not looking for 17 years so into the bin it went and a little file shuffling to have those drive sectors overwrote. If nothing else it shows effort to avoid the shit. My understanding is that a girl (or boy) that is underage does not have to be nude to for it to be considered porn. If the picture (video) is overly sexual or is focusing on the genitals it counts, nude or not. Dressing a 30 year old and pretending to be underage counts the same, but you have to make the viewer believe the girl is underage. A schoolgirl outfit does not cut it, but if she says she is in the fourth grade they have something. They also look at the age of the child. The older the child the less bring the hammer down, to an extent anyway. So if you are caught with pre-pubescent girls it is the worse, not only because it is the most fucked up, but because it is the most obvious. Pubescent is a little better (not really the right word) but most should be able to tell that the budding breasts are underage and the girl is around 12 or whatever. Post-pubescent is where it would get a little gray. This is the area where someone could swear the chick was 18 but was actually 15, and why they ID check. In these cases they should look at the material and decide if a reasonable person would conclude the girl is 18, or could be. If someone sends you a picture of a big breasted 17 year old you will not be (hopefully!) going to prison because you would just assume that the girl was 18 or more. Now if she is holding up her ID and it says she is 17, not sure what happens there. Probably up to the judge. But better can that picture before you have to find out! Another big thing is intent. There is accidental exposure. General (only generally because I am sure some have fried anyway) if an obvious picture is found by you and deleted right away you are safe even it it was found. This assumes you did not seek it out. They are going to look to see if it was ever accessed, hard to convince a jury of wrongdoing if you had no clue it was there. If it was accessed they will look to see if it was then deleted without delay. Again, should not be canning people if they did the right thing and promptly deleted it. They are also going to look to see if they can figure out if someone else could have put it there, such as a PC repair shop (has happened). Meanwhile your life is kicked in the balls. This is why I spent several evenings combing through my huge collection (what a cluster fuck of a collection!) looking to be sure it was not containing any underage stuff. I really should not admit this, particularly online, but it is relevant and really bugging me. In my many years of online porn wondering I did run across a child porn video a while back. I did not know what it was when opening it. I quickly found out what it was. There was a guy (no face) and two girls, maybe 12 and 14. But there was a third girl, maybe 7. The other girls were directing her and not letting her get away. She was basically being raped, by them making her perform oral on this older dude. She was not being held down or anything and she was doing the motions on her own, but I think she knew she did not have much of a say in the matter. I only seen a few seconds of the video...I could not stomach any more than that, and even that was too much. The face of this poor little girl who knew she was being forced into something wrong really kicked me in the gut. I almost cried after seeing her face, seriously. Hell, I am getting a little choked up writing this. I have seen some super fucked up stuff on the internet, including guys literally cutting off their own junk, but nothing has ever disgusted me and scarred me like that. I could not even imagine what that did to the poor girl. I am sure sometimes girls do this and do not realize what they are doing, and they are probably better off for it, but this one knew. I only saw her face for half a second, the time it takes to realize what this is and close it out, but that is a very haunting half a second.  I make damn sure my collection is 18 plus! This is just such a scary topic.  legal  "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~PU Interview | |
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| 03-11-12 05:57pm - 4668 days | #7 | |
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Micha (0)
Active User Posts: 321 Registered: Jul 04, '10 Location: san jose ca |
Andy wrote: "Everyone in this forum knows my download habits, 27/7" "So I literally go through every drive I have..." Downloading 27/7 ? How on earth did you find the time to go through 90Ts of hard drives sweeping for questionable stuff ? Oh........ I see............ 27/7...........You're not from earth. Great post Andy .... thanx unless life also gives you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck. | |
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| 03-11-12 07:05pm - 4668 days | #8 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
HAHA, nice catch on that typo! It really did take a while. But in the end worth a little piece of mind that at least that will not be does me in. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 03-12-12 03:37am - 4668 days | #9 | |
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BadMrFrosty (0)
Active User Posts: 124 Registered: Mar 05, '10 Location: Prague (Czech Republic) |
I don't think you can download child porn by accident. I have been using the net for over 15 years both for work and for fun and I have never, I repeat never found anything that would be illegal for me to view and that is probably because I have never gone looking for it. Maybe its my taste in porn which usually involves enormous breasts but even when I fancy tracking down some new teen porn from our Russian friends I always find legit stuff. Controversial statement coming up: I think that anyone that tells you they accidentally downloaded child porn is talking nonsense at best and downright lying at worst. They were searching for something specific, child porn is not something that is widely advertised. The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa | |
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| 03-12-12 04:31am - 4668 days | #10 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
Years ago, one of my friends used to download pirate movies via bittorrent type systems. He was always complaining about incidents where he thought he had downloaded the latest blockbuster only to find that the resultant movie was just a porno or a completely different movie. There was also the occasional incidents when the movie turned out to be a repeated advert against copyright theft. Admittedly he never said that he accidently downloaded child p*rn (although I don't think he would have mentioned it), but I can how it would be entirely possible. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 03-12-12 09:32am - 4668 days | #11 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Great post Andy, I agree with everything you said. I recall back in the 90's coming across something like you had happen. There was no limits back then and I remember being panicked and wiping my hard drive and thinking what did I just see. I too only saw seconds and was enough to burn in my head still even now EWWWW  !I do though remember I wish I knew what to do with this thing I found. The law scares the crap out of you so much that we panic and delete rather then think about reporting. I never came across anything again, but worried who these people were. And the law makes it hard to go forward. I think too many people have made errors in a clicks or links and now can face huge fines and jail time for an innocent mistake. I was off topic  watching a show on Discovery channel, these cops were busting a weed growing unit in the bushes of California. Days later ( same cop) they pull a guy over with 75 plants in his Van and let him go cause it was for medical Marijuana ? Laws are too vague and confusing, to really protect people. Since 2007 | |
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| 03-12-12 12:10pm - 4668 days | #12 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
It's less likely to happen today but if I'm not wrong then anyone that has older stuff made by Rodox might have some porn that's classified as child porn in North America US simply because the age of consent was once 16 to appear in porn in Norway so what was once legal material is now illegal. I don't think you can find that kind of content anywhewre on the net expect on torrent sites and that includes Rodox but I certainly wouldn't take any chances. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 03-12-12 02:11pm - 4668 days | #13 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I am trying to remember the name of an American porn starlet, back in the eighties, who pretended to be eighteen until it was revealed that she was only sixteen. I had a VHS tape that featured her and know that it was very quickly destroyed in my rush to stay legal !  Darn, what was her name .. I hate when that happens! | |
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| 03-12-12 02:38pm - 4668 days | #14 | |
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JayUK (0)
Active User Posts: 9 Registered: May 30, '10 Location: Suffolk England |
I believe the porn star in question would be Tracy Lords who has since gone on to attempt a carrer in mainstream acting. Hasn't done very well at it though. | |
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| 03-12-12 04:20pm - 4668 days | #15 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
Can you always be sure that there aren't others out there who haven't been found out? Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 03-12-12 05:02pm - 4668 days | #16 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
You are kinda right. I have about 12 years of internet and have seen extremely little, and none on the open net. One of my download methods I would type in "shower" for example and thousands of files with that in the name show up. They are not thumbnailed or previewable in anyway. The vast majority of the time this is fine. But, what if one of the files is named "My girl in shower"? Well that could very well show up and from that title one does not know what is in it. It could be a 50 year old, a 20 year old, or a 10 year old. There can be no indication by the file name. How many jpegs are named 001.pjeg or DSC_001.jpeg? The same can be said for that file name. The Usenet can still be the wild west at times. Same can go for P2P, but I refuse to use those. If you are browsing the traditional internet you will not run into anything. I would tend to believe that anything you found there would be a url to federal prison. The only thing you might find is those user-submitted ex-gf sites and that can be questionable, but not obvious. Google teen models and look at a 16 year old and look at a 18 year old, a legit model site of course. You will find that in many cases that are damn near impossible to tell apart, which makes me wonder about those ex-gf sites because you know full well they are not carding people. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 03-12-12 05:48pm - 4667 days | #17 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Tracy is one of them but you also had Alexandra Quinn who started shooting porn at 16. She shot at least 20 or more movies before she was 18. I'm pretty sure there are some others as well but their names escape me. Tracy would be the most famous one. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 03-12-12 06:02pm - 4667 days | #18 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Hey, thanks Jay! That's exactly who it was!  | |
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| 03-12-12 06:08pm - 4667 days | #19 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Let's keep our fingers crossed that the certificate the sites are showing (USC 2257) is genuine and proof that a model's age was thoroughly checked. I always look for that guarantee before I sign up with a site. But forgeries of birth certificates are possible I suppose. | |
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| 03-13-12 03:46am - 4667 days | #20 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
I'm not going to name names, but I know webmasters of sites who have had to suddenly remove all content featuring certain models, so some still get through the system. It's rare, but no system is foolproof. If you join a site, download content, end your membership and then months/years later they discover a fake ID problem. They may have no way of informing you, or no intention of doing so. You may never find out. I have previously refused to use a few individual models on my sites, not because there was a problem with their age/ID, but simply because they did not look old enough. I really don't want to attract that sort of custom to my sites. I think anyone who regularly downloads from free sites, forums, those many group sites (like Yahoo Groups) run a serious risk of occasionally adding something illegal to their collection. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 03-13-12 08:02am - 4667 days | #21 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Ed makes a good point, I think to say nothing in life is free is justified here too. If you go to get free porn you might get something else free. Another point that I am sure legit sites never engage in however is slowly smothering the internet is sex-slavery. I am sure these people have ways to fake everything from ID's to birth certificates. Lucky for me women in there late 20's and up and many in their 30's and up interest me. So I doubt I will ever cross that area even by accident. This frontier is changing and like I once said elsewhere in the forum I truly believe the industry is not changing for the better. Which may be why the Feds are focused so much more then they used too ! CT Since 2007 | |
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| 03-13-12 12:09pm - 4667 days | #22 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I think that is where most people can wind up with content that they don't know is illegal and/or downloaded stuff without ever looking at it. If they had then they would have seen that it definetely isn't legal. of course most of these people are already in the wrong since the content is likely stolen so it's by default illegal. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 03-13-12 05:15pm - 4667 days | #23 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Indeed very true. However, there are different degrees of"wrong". Going 5 mph over the speed limit is wrong, but going 50 mph over is really wrong. It is looked onto as such. Society certainly would see them as different levels, just as they would with downloading pirated content as compared to downloading a video of a 5 year old blowing her creepy uncle. Sometimes I wonder if the feds or whoever are more concerned with kid porn or with copyright infringement. There is a lot more money backing the big hollywood guys. While all these companies talk about how they want to stop child porn I doubt they put there money where the mouth is. Spending time and money on that does not really help their interest. Sure they throw some peanuts at it, but the true talent will be put towards protecting their own interest. fake (at least those are 99.99999% 18+) "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~PU Interview | |
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| 03-13-12 07:57pm - 4666 days | #24 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
^I try not to ponder too long on what Government agencies are trying to do because if I did then I think I'd become a serious anarchist. My upbeat look on life can only take so much crap before I go postal. I don't for one moment think that we should make light of child pornography and any sexual predator behind bar is great news but there was a story last week about Marc Jacobs using two 14 years old models during his fall 2012 runway show and that was after the board that governs the fashion industry agreed that no underage girls should work the fashion shows and guess who sits on the board that agreed to those rules? Yup! Good old douchebag Marc Jacob himself. Last week wasn't his week because there was another story about him hiring a 16 years old model to walk for him during the NY fashion show. Now that's not the problme. The problem is that there are specific rules that no underage model should work after midnight since they are still students in High School. The model worked on one day from 6 pm until 2 am and the next day she worked until 4:30 in the morning. All in all she worked 23 hours for doing looks which is where the model simply tries the different artciles and the designer does touches and things like that and she also worked another 6-8 hours walking Marc Jacob show. The cherry on top of this sunday is that she wasn't paid for any of these things. She was paid in trade which is basically when the designer gives the model articles from his/her collection. Now it's true that those articles have a monetary value but it's kind of hard to pay your bills with a Jacob purse or booths. Why isn't the government looking into what is essentially a child abuse case? Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 03-14-12 09:00am - 4666 days | #25 | |
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Cybertoad (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,158 Registered: Jan 01, '08 Location: Wash |
Probably why I am sometimes, oh on the side lines here at PU, or have thoughts or comments that members go huh ? To explain, I am not an Anarchist. But I am anti-establishment 60's kid in the strongest sense. Again why my views tend to go against the grain around here. But have read the PU rules and careful always to stay within the boarders. I do ask why allot and why this is not the proper forum to spread out these issues. I know that more people to need to start asking the Government, just because they can do something? Should They Do It ? Should we send billions over sees to help the needy why oun own people and veterans live under bridges, and we will arrest them for loitering. I'll stop there but there are questions that need asked. They could spend less money investigating Child_pornography and spend it elsewhere. The question is should they and are we not setting those abused children to later draw on resources or worse become abusers themselves or even worse. Ok done with my rant. And yes I do get involved locally and elsewhere, just try not to draw to much attention to myself. The government also does not like that either. So I do it peacefully but progressively. Since 2007 | |
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