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| Porn Users Forum » Are clearly labeled pre-checked cross sales ethical? |
| 1-22 of 22 Posts | Page 1 |
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| 10-06-09 12:10pm - 5518 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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Rick (0)
Suspended  Posts: 401 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: Las Vegas, NV |
Are clearly labeled pre-checked cross sales ethical? That is my latest question for you guys. Many sites now use pre-checked cross sales. If the site shows them clearly written on the join page, above the submit button and easy to read.. Does that affect your decision to join the site? Do you think it is a problem or do you just uncheck them? Let me know what u guys think! The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn Porn Users - Porn Review by the People Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder | |
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| 10-06-09 12:27pm - 5518 days | #2 | |
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ControllingMind (0)
Suspended  Posts: 52 Registered: Jan 29, '09 Location: Inside An Unseen Force |
No, the boxes should be left blank and you can decide to tick them yourself. There is other things that would affect my decision to join a site more than this, but it would make me think twice. Yes It is a bit of a problem, but I uncheck them. I have noticed with some that even if you click anywhere at the bottom of the screen and you are not actually clicking the box, it still unchecks/checks the tick. So if you just miss clicking the accept transaction box before trying again, it will still have ticked the cross sale, without you realising it. | |
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| 10-06-09 05:09pm - 5518 days | #3 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
They might not affect my decision the very first time I join a site, but I will usually note them in reviews and be very wary of rejoining in the future. I am already pretty paranoid to begin with, I don't need to be scouring a site to make sure I don't accidentally purchase something I don't want. It's a slippery slope; if a site can't be honest enough to have unchecked cross sales -- if it's going to have any at all -- then why should I even trust them with my CC number? Come on, just offer them, but stop fucking pre-checking them! Imagine if you were buying a new car and if you couldn't purchase a car without agreeing to purchase an undercoating at the same time -- you would probably be pretty angry. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 10-06-09 06:21pm - 5518 days | #4 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I do not have a problem with a site that has clearly marked pre-check boxes, but then again I'm not a newbie just making my first step on the net. I know what to look for and I'm ready to uncheck the box as I choose. I suspect that the decent thing is to have a check box for the offer and allow the customer to chose to cleick yes rather that to uncheck the box and be stuck with customer complaints possible credit card issues. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 10-06-09 06:26pm - 5518 days | #5 | |
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Rick (0)
Suspended Posts: 401 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: Las Vegas, NV |
Wow, this is seriously shady. Do you remember a site that does this? I'd love to see this is action and who's doing it. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn Porn Users - Porn Review by the People Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder | |
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| 10-06-09 07:43pm - 5518 days | #6 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
Rick, check out Porn Pros for auto-sign-ups without checking anything. The last time I joined, I was pretty sure that I had unchecked the pre-checked items, was surprised when I had an auto-join confirmation hit my inbox. When I immediately cancelled that spam site, the cancel page had an auto-join to another bs site that I missed in my haste to cancel the damned thing so I had to go cancel out of there. That crap combined with Porn Pros crappy vid quality will keep me out of that site for the foreseeable future - unless they want to pay me for my time to be scouring their damned deceptive join page and spending time cancelling their auto-join crap sites. It was a couple months ago and I haven't been back so I don't know if this is still the case with their join page. Doesn't matter - they lost me as a customer. | |
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| 10-06-09 10:43pm - 5517 days | #7 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
You're in a checkout line to buy a toaster. The clerk scans it, then suddenly pulls out a food processor, which you of course had no intention of buying, and scans it, too. Sure, you can stop it and have it stricken from your tab, but would you think such behavior is ethical? What's the difference if it's an online subscription to a porn site? None, if you ask me. It's okay if they make an offer, but the consumer should be the one who decides "yes." Who wants additional purchasing decisions made for them, in advance, by the vendor? Now imagine that consumers could name their own price for porn subscriptions. "Sorry, not $29.95. $9.95!" Would that be okay with everyone? I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 10-06-09 11:35pm - 5517 days | #8 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Quite agree, It should be unchecked at default. Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 10-07-09 02:32am - 5517 days | #9 | |
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ControllingMind (0)
Suspended Posts: 52 Registered: Jan 29, '09 Location: Inside An Unseen Force |
I can't remember who or I would have named them already. I might have backed out of joining them. It has only happened twice and I only noticed by accident. While reading a billing page to check prices I randomly clicked my mouse, the pointer was way off the check box, yet when I kept clicking it checked/unchecked the box. I tried on different areas and it did it anywhere roughly around the bottom 6-10 inches of the page. The area around the transaction box up to the check box was affected. This could be how some people are getting caught, when they are sure they unchecked everything. Just any little click around the bottom of the page before clicking transaction will alter the check box. I test this out now, when I go to billing pages. | |
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| 10-07-09 03:11am - 5517 days | #10 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended  Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
The first post I made here was about unchecking a box and then being billed for a sister site. I just don't like prechecked boxes and don't trust anyone who has them on their join pages. I have found that the reputable sites don't do this to their paying customers. You just asked the question about why pay for porn. This is the kind of thing that turns people off from paying. | |
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| 10-07-09 05:19am - 5517 days | #11 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
Ethics, these days, seems to be whatever you can get away with. I don't like prechecked cross sales at all. I think it's a shady business practice and I won't join a site when I see them. Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 10-07-09 10:47am - 5517 days | #12 | |
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GCode (0)
Active User  Posts: 386 Registered: Feb 23, '09 Location: USA |
Well, I think it's obvious from a user point of view that it is shady and unethical. From a business point of view, it is still obviously unethical but I see why they do it. However, the largest thing I have a problem with the pre-checked crossed sales is the difficulty to cancel if you actually accidently accepted the transaction with these checked. The worst is when you go to cancel and it is an email to support but it is 2 day or 1 day trials then rebills. Then, it takes a few days from support and it already rebills. Also, without emailing support, the cancellation of the trials has even more pre-checked cross sales and could eventually create a huge cluster fuck in the long run. So, in my opinion, mostly if a site does have these I will still join. I have to really want to content to do this but it is obviously shady and wrong. If webmasters are reading this, at least make these cross sales easy to cancel in case you do mess up. I think my decision if a site is overall shady is through the previews, type of billing, tours, and so on; yes, pre-checked cross sales does factor in my overall outlook on a site in general. Sexted From My iPad | |
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| 10-07-09 02:05pm - 5517 days | #13 | |
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Rick (0)
Suspended Posts: 401 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: Las Vegas, NV |
Thanks for the report. We will do a test signup on this network. It usually takes some time before our test is over, usually a few weeks at least to see if any hidden charges were added to our card. If we find anything fraudulent, we will ban em. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn Porn Users - Porn Review by the People Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder | |
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| 10-10-09 11:22am - 5514 days | #14 | |
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anyonebutme (0)
Active User  Posts: 294 Registered: Aug 23, '09 |
I don't mind pre-checked cross sales. If they are going to screw you, they are going to screw you regardless of the cross sales or not. For the comments in here, remember it's the billing companies that you can trust or distrust, not necessarily the websites. Only one I've had an issue with so far is sobvsites which they operate under dozens of different urls. Simple google search confirms this, and the site I joined, tasty18and19.com , is already marked here with hidden cross sales. I just told my cc company they were fraudulent charges, they were removed no questions asked. | |
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| 10-10-09 01:09pm - 5514 days | #15 | |
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james4096 (0)
Suspended Posts: 132 Registered: Mar 02, '09 |
Even if I am able to catch and then uncheck a prechecked cross sale, I makes me think twice about joining. Will they sign me up for something else later without asking? | |
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| 10-11-09 02:24am - 5513 days | #16 | |
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atrapat (0)
Active User  Posts: 182 Registered: Apr 19, '08 Location: Non-USA |
Pre-checked cross-sales are a shady practice by principle but I don't remember ever not joining a site because of them: I just uncheck them. On the other hand, I believe I'm more likely to accept an non-pre-checked cross-sale than a pre-checked one; I like to make my own choices. Of course, sites have much more user behavior data to work with so they sure have reasons to keep making them pre-checked. Regarding Porn Pros, I've joined them a couple times in the last couple years and never had a billing related problem. | |
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| 10-11-09 06:12am - 5513 days | #17 | |
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Drooler (0)
Disabled User Posts: 1,831 Registered: Mar 11, '07 Location: USA |
I once visted a site a few years ago and got as far as the join page. Had second thoughts, so I never clicked to submit. I just closed the window. But they had my info and signed me up anyway! That's only happened once, but if it's not a site you're sure of, it's best to be cautious. I wanted something new, so I left England for New England. | |
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| 10-11-09 07:24am - 5513 days | #18 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Had a couple of bad dealings earlier this year (two) where I unchecked those cross-sales. Still got billing for those sites - and that's NOT ok, of course. BUT I remember that both sites were british - not that you should stay away from any uk-site. But still, I had to cancel my creditcard and start over, because they would not let go and did not accept my claim in mails that the cross-sales were unchecked. So generally: Take care out there, folks. And yes, like other PUs - I think that kind of bussiness/practice is shady... I think they thrive on porn-beginners, that's even more shady. "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" | |
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| 10-26-09 11:09am - 5498 days | #19 | |
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OneMan (0)
Active User Posts: 29 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: Europe |
See my posts on TeenRevPass networks ! I also joined another site before, that introduced me to the delights of Instant Upsells !!!! Pre-checked cross sells are one thing.....ethical ? Well....not really. But you should be more concerned with exposing Instant Upsells which I believe are illegal....if they were tested in a court. Companies should be 100% transparent.....anything shady or designed to "catch you out" is NOT ethical...it is not morally acceptable. Pre-checked anything is not on in my book ! Some firms even do it on the Cancellation Page for cripes sake ! I truly feel that you should have 3 categories of warning instead of the current 1. 1. Cross sells at sign up 2. Instant Upsells on member or trial pages 3. Cross sells at cancellation. (excuse the double "ll s" I am a Brit ! The one I had this weekend, "disguised" the cross sell as "Free Video" on the cancellation page. Man ! This comes at an interesting time, as I am currently studying a university level course in "Applied Ethics". To be honest, it may be prudent for you guys to place a warning on your site, that suggests....if in doubt about the ethical policies of a site you may be considering joining - whether because of the 'look and feel' of it, or from other users' comments - always use a "virtual"/pre-paid credit card. This limits the amount that can be 'lost' through dodgy websites. Prepaid cards allow you to load them with just enough to join your site.....then check out your membership details and emails, before loading it any further....preferably cancelling the current site before loading it any more ! Edited on Oct 26, 2009, 11:16am | |
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| 10-26-09 03:07pm - 5498 days | #20 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
I agree with OneMan here. There should not any cross sells, particularly hidden ones. I do not even like unchecked ones, but I can live with them. Prechecked is evil in my book. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 11-01-09 01:45pm - 5492 days | #22 | |
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furry feet (0)
Suspended  Posts: 2 Registered: Jun 17, '08 |
no. the only reason for them to be pre-checked is to get extra purchases because people sometines fail to notice them. If you want the extra site can check the box yourself. | |
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| 11-11-09 08:29am - 5482 days | #23 | |
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OneMan (0)
Active User Posts: 29 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: Europe |
Good reason to start using virtual / prepaid credit cards.....they can seriously limit your potential loss due to fraud or "unrthical" practices, and are pretty much disposable. I use Tuxedo, but there are many out there. | |
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