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| Porn Users Forum » The "Politics" Thread |
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| 02-25-09 03:22pm - 5779 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
The "Politics" Thread There has been some discussion about people wanting to expand the forum into non-porn topics since the regulars here seem to have regurgitated most of their porn peeves and propensities. Since I happen to like politics, I'm starting a little niche here for people to sound off on whatever government is doing to oppress their high standing sensitivities. _____________________________ In case you missed it, here's my review of "Tuesday Night Minority Smackdown" (aka - Obama's speech not called a State of the Union speech and the republican response). In the blue cornor, we had the silver tongued "Black Barrister" from Illinois firing up the majority of fans in an address before Congress. He came out with some vicious knee pumps to the groin of republicans by declaring they broke America and that we need to reclaim our healthcare, education, and economy. He got the support of the crowd by tossing around money like it grows on trees and by promising to fix everything that ails them with his intoxicating chant of "mo money, mo money" for all while firing up a money machine in the ring between rounds. In the red cornor, there was the puny "Pakistani Kid" masquerading as the Gov. of Louisianna trying to respond after the fact. He claimed his opponent was nice guy only to come back with an illegal eye gouge by claiming the stimulus package was a waste of money and that only small government and lower taxes will prevent Armaggedon (probably a future pay-per-view event) from happening. The winner? No contest, the Pakistani went down in defeat like a bad case of salmonella peanut poisoning. Not realizing that the rules of the game have changed, the Boy from the Bayou kept saying only small government and lower taxes would win the day. He forgot that no developed country in the last 100 years has seen it's nonmilitary part of the government shrink except after losing a war or succombing to revolution. He also forgot that with a 13 to 14 trillion dollar deficit staring America in the face when he runs for President in 2012 that his campaign slogan of "cutting your taxes to fix our deficit" will sound about as realistic as Paris Hilton getting her Ph.D. in astrophysics. He screwed up more by forgetting that no developed country has contained health care costs without some type of nationalized (aka big government) program and that Medicare and Medicaid will go broke within a decade without a major overhaul. The old school republicans are heading for extinction, they just don't know it yet. Edited on Feb 25, 2009, 03:30pm | |
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| 02-25-09 03:32pm - 5779 days | #2 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User  Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
What?! - you mean Obama's BLACK?!!! | |
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| 02-25-09 04:29pm - 5779 days | #3 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Obama is not actually a "Black" guy anyway. There is no African in him! "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 02-25-09 05:05pm - 5779 days | #4 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Well, his dad is from Kenya. Besides, he can hoop. What more proof do you need. (All apologies to anyone who think this is getting racist, just poking fun is all). | |
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| 02-25-09 05:08pm - 5779 days | #5 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
Well at least he isn't gay. | |
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| 02-25-09 06:01pm - 5779 days | #6 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
That is true enough. Personally I do not care what color he is or if he would happen to get a little "manly" action on the side so long as he does not screw thing up. If the things he does during his four years helps us and get the USA back on its feet then I do not care if he paints the White House pink and purple, makes the secret service guys wear tight leather pants, and runs around with little fairy wing! "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 02-25-09 06:12pm - 5779 days | #7 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended  Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I was glad that Obama sounded optimistic and upbeat. I think the country and the world needs a positive message at a time of great need. But, I greatly fear he may have overpromised. If he does not deliver, he will be judged harshly. | |
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| 02-25-09 06:21pm - 5779 days | #8 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
Since poor old Wittyguy started this thread with good intent I shall add my usual depressive thoughts. Obama seems like a decent guy. My worry is, it doesn't seem to matter what race, creed, colour, sex, or sexuality finds some power. They generally act in the same way all those grey old men in suits act, no matter what hopes the people have when they first come to power. In other words they are batting for the rich, powerful and privileged minority. The second observation is the number of times you see the media try to point out how low taxes help to drive the economy. I have seen very few individual and independant economists actually support this point of view. In fact I have heard them say just the opposite. They quite often consider there is absolutely no proof that low taxes help drive the economy in the long run. The reverse is usually the case. The reason you see reports in the media about how good low taxes are, is because they media is owned by very rich people who, believe it or not, don't really want to pay high taxes. When I first studied economics a long time ago there was a cross section of different thoughts and theories. A bit like scientists arguing over whether there were really 10 or 11 dimensions. Nothing much has changed. The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor, while the rich pretend what social consciences they have and really want to help the poor. As Darwin realised we are animals. The weak go to the wall. Deep down we are all treading on one another and don't care who we hurt to stay on top. I have no faith in human beings or the human race. Those we perceive to be the bad guys i.e. the totally ruthless will stay on top no matter who they hurt, and will nearly always win. Those we perceive to be the good guys i.e. those who we consider love their fellow human beings, are doomed to lose. There will always be a few powerful people who rule and stay happy while the other 99 per cent will lead desperately unhappy and painful lives. This is the way of the animal kingdom. Edited on Feb 25, 2009, 06:25pm | |
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| 02-25-09 06:41pm - 5779 days | #9 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
You know Squirrel, it sucks, but you're right; the ruling class will always be the ruling class, no matter what they look like. This whole obsession with Obama's race, family, background, shoe size, etc. is just more hot air to distract us from the fact that he really is not that much different from any of the others that are in charge. Yes, it's nice that there are more equal opportunities in politics, but to think that being a certain race or gender makes them better or smarter than anyone else is just as racist or sexist. By the way, is this why your name is TheSquirrel? "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 02-26-09 05:34am - 5778 days | #10 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
It's probably cos I'm nuts. | |
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| 02-26-09 06:53am - 5778 days | #11 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I would like to carry further Squirrel's point about low taxes. If you look at countries with higher taxes than the US, specifically European ones, the government has a lot more money to fund a social safety net. In countries with low taxes, for example in Latin America, there is no welfare, unemployment programs, not even a functioning court system that enforces rules such as child support and alimony. On a regular basis the police and other government officials can be bribed, mainly because government pay is so low. Asking for lower taxes brings money to the rich who mostly save it and become richer. Since the days of Reagan cutting taxes, the gap between rich and poor in America has gotten much bigger. No you can't have government function and not want to pay for it. | |
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| 02-26-09 01:36pm - 5778 days | #12 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Part of the problem with the whole Republican "low taxes" pledge is that it's based on an outdated world economic view. Fifty years ago, if you cut taxes might generate some more growth or investment in the economy. The problem today is three-fold. First, as Thomas Friedman is fond of pointing out, "The World Is Flat" in terms of economy. Let's say I get my taxes cut and I decide to invest it. Where am I going to put it? Unless I'm extremely rich I can't buy into a hedge fund or fund a start-up company. Instead I invest my pennies a mutual fund. And if I listen to a financial planner, I'll diversify. That means I'll be investing in companies not only in the US but all over the world. Even if I buy stock in some big Blue Chip US company, chances are good that my investment will support part of their international operations. In other words, even if you do invest, your investment gets diluted across the globe and doesn't per say stay here. The second problem is that the US is not a "saving" society. Unlike Europe and asia, 75% of our economic GDP is generated by consumer spending. In Europe it's closer to 50%. If you cut my taxes, the prevailing mindset over the years has been to spend it. While that temporarily drives the economy it doesn't do much in terms of supporting long lasting or high paying jobs, especially if I'm buying an import car or import luxury item. Lastly, if you cut business taxes that doesn't mean they'll invest their windfall in infrastructure or jobs. I laughed back when gas prices were booming and Exxon spent about $10 billion of the $50 profit it made to buy back stock in order to increase it's value. A lot of the rest went to stock dividends. Like has been noted above, the rich stay rich and the poor buy lotto tickets. Cutting taxes doesn't necessarily mean pay back for your national economy. And, if you like a civilized modern society, you got to pay for it. For now, we borrow and hope we get the cajones later to pay it all back. When I was a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's I sometimes wondered if I would live to old age without ultimately dying in some nuclear war with Russia. Now I wonder if I'll make it to old age with either money in my pocket (for porn of course ;) or have a viable country left when I get there. | |
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| 02-26-09 09:28pm - 5778 days | #13 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Careful, the rich and powerful love low-to-no taxes because they can maintain their own social safety net without "big government" interfering. Problem is, people may love their country, but not those citizens who cannot seem to earn at least a six or seven figure salary. It really seems to stink of bullshit when politicians speak of small government, especially considering they are a part of the very government they condemn. Like an oil company telling us to drive fuel efficient cars so we don't buy so much gas -- yeah, right! I am really concerned with quality, not quantity. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 02-26-09 09:29pm - 5778 days | #14 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Many thanks to Wittyguy for bringing back such a hilarious avatar! "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 02-28-09 03:41pm - 5776 days | #15 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I am just happy that after eight teeth gritting, apoplectic, head-shaking years I can once again like the U.S. Hooray! | |
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| 03-01-09 07:27pm - 5775 days | #16 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User  Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Political threads=bad idea | |
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| 03-02-09 06:28am - 5774 days | #17 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
Be quiet jd1961, or I shall be forced to explode peace keeping devices to keep you quiet err....I mean to bring peace to your words of mass destruction...err I mean weapons of mass destruction. | |
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| 08-11-09 08:56pm - 5612 days | #18 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
According to Khan, the PU health infirmary is filling up with cases of temporary blindness, hand cramps, tunnel carpal syndrome and euro snatch fever. Seeing that health care policy is all the rage now a days the following is the Wittyguy primer on US healthcare for all 3 of you who might care (a great free of charge medical service I might add that is included under the PU member health plan): Why is our system like it is? Almost every Western country has a government sponsored national health plan ... except the US. Under this system, the government owns all the hospitals and has the docs on payroll so costs are contained but you may not get the best or newest care the shortest amount of time. There was serious talk about going this route after WWII here in the US and again in the 60's and early 70's but we never got there. Instead, because health care was relatively cheap at the time, Congress gave businesses a tax deduction for employers buying health insurance for their employees. This type of health plan is a fee for service plan, where health care providers only get paid for providing services. This type of system lacks cost containment because the incentive is for doctors to provide lots of tests and services at high fees and for insurers to deny or limit coverage to increase their profits. For those who are retired or disabled, you get Medicare - the US version of government healthcare. Medicare usually pays about 80% of what private insurance does. Part of your payroll taxes go towards funding Medicare. What's wrong with the current system? In one simple word: money. For the crips and retirees, Medicare will go broke in 8 years which means that the US government will be adding even more onto the 15 to 20 trillion dollar deficit we'll have at that time. For the rest of us, the lack of cost containment overall sectors of the health field means that health insurance premiums have doubled since the year 2000. That means businesses can't afford to insure employees and those who don't have insurance can't afford it. As a result about 15% of Americans have no health insurance and another 15% are underinsured meaning they can't afford to pay for costs associated with a serious illness because of a high deductable insurance plan or limited insurance coverage. Because of soaring health insurance costs, more people go un/underinsured which means that they can't pay and thus the costs of insurance go up for those who can afford to pay. As a result we spend about 30% to 40% more as a nation for medical than other developed countries and we get worse results (the US doesn't even crack top 20 nations in most health statistics). I already got insurance through work or I'm retired and on Medicare so who cares? Answer: you do. For those are or are near retirement, Medicare goes broke in 8 years. Most of the currently proposed legislation proposes to pay for revamping our system by squeezing medicare costs. Thus, your medicare plan may provide less coverage at higher costs to you in the future even if the policians say that isn't case (funny how future realities can change todays promises). If you're working you already pay a hidden tax. Like I said, health care costs have doubled in the last 9 years. If you assume that there was no increase in health insurance costs over the last nine years and your employer took half of those savings and paid them out as wage increases, you would have had an extra $10k to $12k in total income since the year 2000. Also, as costs continue to increase your insurance coverage will cost you more in terms of your portion that you pay out of your wages, the deductables for treatment will increase or you may lose your coverage because your employer can't afford it. So, what's with all the nasty shit being tossed around about the pending healthcare legislation? Frankly, I don't know. The reason I say this is because there is no single piece of legislation out there. There are at least 3 or 4 proposals right now with nothing carved in stone and anything that might become law will still see major changes from where we're at now. All the nutjobs who profess to be in love with the Obama plan or despise the thought of Nazi controlled health care are talking out of their ass. The biggest problem is that people don't like change and people don't really understand how the US healthcare system works (does any one person really understand it all?) so fear mongering has a better chance of taking hold. The basic premise behind all of the proposals is to increase coverage for more people by eliminating the pre-existing medical condition requirements to health coverage; to create some universal basics for what health insurance must provide; limit Joe Tax Payors co-pays and deductables as part of that insurance plan; and require that most Americans have health insurance (for those who can't afford it the government would help subsidize some of the costs - that's what all the talk about how much money this going to cost comes from). So what is the end result going to be? In a word: nothing. If Congress and Obama can't agree on anything the current system will continue, waiting to be fixed after the next presidential election when it's really broken. If legislation is passed, none of the current proposals do much to contain medical costs or call for universal government run health care like the Europeans have. A few million more people will get coverage and double digit increases in insurance premiums will back off for a couple of years. However, without containing the cost of medical services and insurance premiums (only a government sponsored health insurance plan could even hope to do this and that isn't going to happen despite all the talk about it) the cost of providing health insurance will still out pace our ability to pay for it. All that's going to happen is what we've kicked the can down the road a few years. If you like the nasty politics of our current melee, wait until we go through rounds 2, 3, and 4 over the next 12 years. You have now finished reading this post, it's time to wake up and continue downloading your porn ;) | |
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| 08-11-09 09:30pm - 5612 days | #19 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Damn Wittyguy, who pissed in your Cheerios? Oh wait, I see that you mentioned it a few times. Health care is one of those things that has done nothing but erk me for for a while. Older people can not retire and health care is a major factor and many times the only factor. They simply can not afford to pay for it and can not afford to be with insurance. This is something that has added greatly to the difficulty of us younger folk looking for jobs. Everyone has heard the logic, old guy needs health coverage so does not retire, old guy retains job that would have created position for young guy (me). Of course, nothing against the old guy, but he earned the right to retire and not have to worry about paying for a few doctor visits to make sure his joy stick works. I agree that things need to be changes on a dramatic level. The trouble will be that these insurance companies have a lot riding on people needing to buy coverage. When money is involved any change is hard to come by. There will be a lot of companies paying to bury this thing. That was a good post Wittyguy. It is not something that I have paid all that much attention to but perhaps I should. Don't worry, I did not stop downloading while reading. If I did I would be using my health coverage to pay for my heart attack bills! :) "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 08-12-09 01:32am - 5611 days | #20 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Great post Wittyguy, even if thinking seriously about the current healthcare debate (if you can call it that) can be, well, hazardous to your health. It amazes and shames me to no end how our country, through much of the system you described, has made the health and well being of its citizens into a primarily private and profit-driven issue, not a moral or ethical one -- "You need better coverage? No, fuck you! You should get a better job, and stop getting so goddamn sick while you're at it!" Okay, that last statement was a little over the top, but so are all these concerned (uninformed) citizens at town hall meetings who think the best solution is to yell themselves hoarse at the very people who are beginning to make the efforts to unfuck the system. Will anything change? Will there be any meaningful legislation? I certainly hope so, but I am not a rich lobby or a powerful representative who can actually effect such things. There are a few big hurdles to any reform: - Powerful, well-financed lobbies who, though they have no voting or legislative power, can still put forth enormous effort to stay the current course, or at least stray as little as possible from it. I will concede they have at least one basic point correct; we cannot simply put the health insurance industry out of business overnight (it'll take a good solid weekend to do that). A lot of jobs and money are in this business, so forcing it out of the loop is impractical. Unfortunately, most of the lobbies' work is to defend doctors and companies, not customers/patients. Their biggest win would be a law, or laws, requiring everyone to purchase insurance, even if they couldn't refuse to cover as much care, or raise premiums as much. - The holdout politicians, on either side of the political spectrum. Yes, Democrats control Congress, but so what, if they refuse to agree on reform? And Republicans seem to be trying hold off for as long as possible, either to enact only minor reforms, or simply not pass anything at all. The idea of "We can't pass anything now, not until we can get it right" is a familiar tactic. If they can delay any legislation long enough, it may not be "Obama's Waterloo," but it may be in a different political climate, where health legislation is no longer passable. - Dumb, reactive citizens, who either don't try and understand the realities of the current system, or just don't want to. No, no single person can understand it all, but on the other hand you can't just sit back and say "well, the U.S. has the best healthcare system in the world," when there is simply no comparative data to support it. Even more amusing is the wonderfully self-defeating mantra of "the U.S. has the best healthcare system in the world, if you can afford it." And you can drive the safest cars sold in the world, if you can afford one. Yes, we may very well offer the best healthcare money can buy, but a person's health should not be an episode of MTV's "Cribs," where whoever has the biggest bank account winds up with the best stuff. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but whatever happened to a basic right to life? Is an individual's less-than-perfect career path or genetic shortcomings also his or her own "choice" in medicine? Wittyguy, I hope you are way off in predicting nothing will happen until the next presidential election. By then, other issues may at hand (like where the hell is Obama's real birth certificate?), and health reform may once again be returned to the dust bin of good ideas with not enough smart people to make them work. I am more worried about it being next year's election issue, which could break the majority in Congress, and force any proposed legislation into a snail's pace towards passage (and which then might survive long enough until the 2012 presidential election, and become an even greater ball-breaker). Well, I better stop before I have a stroke (and then get get denied coverage because my social and political beliefs are preexisting conditions). Oh, and I though Medicare was going broke in 9 years. :) "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-12-09 06:14am - 5611 days | #21 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Anyone who lives near Canada (as I do) knows for a fact that Government health care is garbage. The pits. Waiting for an operation you may never get. I know for a fact that people living in Canada come to the U.S. for quality health care. Hopefully this ill conceived idea will end up in the trash can. The Congress intend to exempt themselves from this bill! LOL | |
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| 08-12-09 10:22am - 5611 days | #22 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
With all due respect, jd, that's a gross exaggeration. I watched a U.S. news show the other day where a guy mentioned casually that he didn't have the money to pay for stitches on a cut to his arm so they had to use another method to seal the cut. That made all of us hard-done-by Canadians sit up with a gasp. There are folks who will go to the States because they have money and freak out at the thought of having to wait for anything so, why not? Some horrible examples of failures of the Canadian way of doing things are being hauled out by special interest groups (read insurance companies) but I have a wife who had a gall bladder operation, Bartholyn (sp) cyst drained, thyroid operation, hip operation, three years of hemo dialysis, two kidney transplants, all the follow ups in connection with the transplants. Total cost (except through taxes that we barely notice): 0 !! We are free to choose our own family physicians and while waiting periods are sometimes a bit long, the overwhelming majority are not dangerously so. Not even for the woman with the tumor in that Republican ad. Don't forget that those representatives of yours have been slipped envelopes by lobbyists for years, they don't want to lose that source of income. Please don't take this as a personal attack, just attempting to correct the false picture presented by Republicans and the Fox Network. Most of us are very happy with what we have even though there are flaws that should be corrected, like the long waiting periods to see specialists. And we are working on that. And it's a lot better than losing your insurance because your insurance company had to pay out too much on your behalf over the years and you find to your horror that now that you've developed cancer they've dropped you like a hot potato and you're on your own. (Another example of a not so well working system I saw on CNN only the other day). Darn it, I should never post in a political thread, I had to leave a newsgroup once because the stout defenders of the American way of delivering health care tore me to shreds for being anti-american. So please be kind, I don't want to leave another forum, but I couldn't let your remark go unanswered. Remember there are always complainers in connection with every subject. | |
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| 08-12-09 12:48pm - 5611 days | #23 | |
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mbaya (0)
Suspended Posts: 891 Registered: Jul 07, '08 Location: new jersey |
I for one am very happy to hear from Canadians or anyone else that has the system that I wish we had. Right now we all pay far too much for insurance in the US and don't really get our moneys worth. Yes to reform! | |
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| 08-12-09 01:19pm - 5611 days | #24 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I know there are quite a few active members from Europe (secular socialists!) and also Canada, so it would be interesting to hear from them on this topic. Don't leave this forum messemer! All opinions are welcome -- okay, maybe not the anti-porn ones -- and I think we are still in a time where many Americans can be called un-American for questioning anything, so please keep posting. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-12-09 02:04pm - 5611 days | #25 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks and good for you. Another stark example of a non-functioning system I forgot to mention earlier was the disturbing picture of an American elderly woman with Alzheimers' being dropped off by a cab in front of one of those charity hospitals in poor neighborhoods and left to wander around aimlessly and confused, clad only in a granny gown, because the hospital she had first been brought to called a cab for her the moment they found out she had no insurance. She was rescued eventually by someone who saw her from inside the ?hospital? and took her in. This was not in a Michael Moore movie but on one of your more reputable news channels. The whole scene of this poor, disoriented woman stumbling around in a nightie was caught on a security camera. Reform, of course, is up to all of you and I know how distasteful it is to see foreigners sticking their noses into your affairs, so .. sorry and I'll shut up now except to make one more reply to another post! :-) | |
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| 08-12-09 02:13pm - 5611 days | #26 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks, turboshaft, this has been a very civilized group and I don't expect any of the nastiness that you see in usenet groups but realize at the same time that there are deeply and devoutly held convictions re. the role of government in your society so I'm bound to step on some toes the moment I say anything critical in connection with your present health care system. Actually it is none of my business except that our system was held up as something not to imitate. I know of better ones, all I have to do is glance across the ocean, but basically it's been good to me and my family. With your present one, given my wife's illnesses, we would be uninsured by now or into debt over our heads. So I'm grateful. BTW, I am not sure if the Europeans (or Canadians) would be happy to be called Socialists. There's just more of an emphasis on the welfare of the tribe rather than on that of the individual. | |
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| 08-12-09 02:32pm - 5611 days | #27 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Dont worry Messmer, we will allow the Canadians to stick their noses in this one. After all it is your system that we are looking at in many instances. The fact is both systems have their ups and downs. There needs to be something in the middle somewhere that would work. If not than we need to find what does work. So many people's lives have been dictated by the pursuit of health coverage including mine. Another truth. Who on here has not had to fight with an insurance company to receive coverage for something that you would believe is obvious. We had to fight with the insurance company to cover surgery on my dad's arm. He was hardly able to use his arm for a while because it hurt so bad and taking into account he works in light construction this becomes an even more life impacting issue. The insurance did not see the treatment as medical necessary! Not able to use an arm? Everyone has stories such as this and they simply should not be there. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 08-12-09 02:37pm - 5611 days | #28 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
I honestly have a hard time believing that there are people in the U.S. who would not have anything critical to say about our (I mean America's, not Canada's) health care system. It will probably never be perfect, or anywhere near it -- definitely not as long as there is profit to be had and town halls to disrupt -- but to not question the current, but hopefully not permanent, system in the quest for improvement is just lazy and ignorant. Accusing Europeans or Canadians of being socialists was just a little humor on my part, though I am afraid it's quite serious when coming from more radical elements in American politics (all sides and corners of it). Frankly, if providing health care makes a country socialist, then they are creating a good reputation for the word. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-12-09 02:54pm - 5611 days | #29 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Yes, I remember the story, where a homeless woman in LA was dropped off in Skid Row. It's a practice known as "dumping," where hospitals discharge patients away from the hospital, so as to pass the problem to someone else, in this case a nearby shelter who eventually helped her. It has supposedly been going on for a number of years, but this was caught on tape, and images have a way of making stories count in the news (think of the Abu Ghraib photos and video, or all the coverage of Hurricane Katrina). It is definitely inhumane and cruel, but probably not the worst of the problems faced in the U.S., partly because she was not in a life-threatening condition (though still suffering from dementia and wandering around Skid Row), and also because the homeless will always need attention around the world, it's just that in the U.S. we haven't really figured out what to do with them. Moore might have mentioned it in "Sicko," but I can't remember, and that film was really more focused on the problems of the insured, not the uninsured. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-12-09 03:12pm - 5611 days | #30 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
"Socialist countries" or whatever you want to call them take the approach that healthcare is a basic right and has the government provide coverage to all (or almost all) to meet that obligation. I think most Americans would agree with that premise but somehow think that government is too inefficient by definition to do anything except burn money. Limiting the government's presence in the business world is generally a good thing (current economic meltdown excepted) since government isn't very agile or creative in a business climate. With healthcare though, you just can't go buy the latest and greatest package of "healtcare" out of a vending machine. It's a specialized and complex field where the latest and greatest treatments cost a lot to produce and where competition is limited by the nature of all the specialized training and equipment that goes into it. The other problem is that you need more healthcare the older you get, when you're theoretically living on retirement savings and less able to react to cost changes. Under a true capitalist system, it is the very old, the very young and very sick that should be paying out the wazoo for their healthcare; the same class of people who are in the worst position to actually pay for it. Frankly, I'd rather have some amount be taken out of my paycheck each month for healthcare knowing that for next to nothing I can get treated if I get sick and not worry about going bankrupt or even having access to healthcare. If I have to wait a bit longer for service or not get everything that technology might allow for, I'll take that trade off. | |
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| 08-12-09 03:19pm - 5611 days | #31 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks for the tolerance and moral support guys. It is a sensitive subject and I expected some flak from some of my American friends. Looks like Porn Users are nothing but a bunch of LIBERALS! All kidding aside I knew a Baptist Pastor who confided in me one day, at a funeral, that he was more comfortable in the company of sinners than that of saints because they are kinder and less judgmental. I believe him! :-) P.S. I recognized the humor when you called us all socialists, turboshaft, I was used to being called exactly that by the extreme right in that other group I mentioned but it allowed me to get my 2 cents worth in on the subject. | |
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| 08-12-09 03:30pm - 5611 days | #32 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
That's the way we feel, too, Wittyguy. Except for that Canadian woman in the Republican attack ad. :-) | |
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| 08-15-09 03:46am - 5608 days | #33 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
Hardly. Candaians wait in line for their operations. Putting health care in the hands of the federal government is insane. I wouldn't trust them to take care of my dog. | |
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| 08-15-09 09:00am - 5608 days | #34 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
A small correction, health care is in the hands of the Provincial Governments. The Federal Government contributes a certain percentage of the money towards universal care, they don't run it. As a matter of fact they are responsible for the present waiting times because they cut their contributions to the bone over a period of years. Because we have a minority conservative government that has to be more responsive to people's needs or they put themselves in danger of getting kicked out, steps have finally been taken to correct this unacceptable situation. But even then nobody was kept waiting if the operation or treatment was considered urgent. I know my wife never was. Even the woman who was used by the American right was in no danger of dying if she had to wait. She simply was scared (for which I don't blame her) and ran south. | |
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| 08-25-09 06:41pm - 5598 days | #35 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
My last post on the health care topic for now, just happened to come across the following quote in an article and it shows why shit ain't working now: In 2007, employer-based health insurance cost, on average, more than $12,000 per family, up 78 percent since 2001. I've run several companies and company divisions of various sizes over the course of my career, so I can confidently tell you that raises (and even entry-level hiring) are tightly limited by rising health-care costs. You may think your employer is paying for your health care, but in fact your company's share of the insurance premium comes out of your potential wage increase. Where else could it come from? Let's say you're a 22-year-old single employee at my company today, starting out at a $30,000 annual salary. Let's assume you'll get married in six years, support two children for 20 years, retire at 65, and die at 80. Now let's make a crazy assumption: insurance premiums, Medicare taxes and premiums, and out-of-pocket costs will grow no faster than your earnings--say, 3 percent a year. By the end of your working days, your annual salary will be up to $107,000. And over your lifetime, you and your employer together will have paid $1.77 million for your family's health care. $1.77 million! And that's only after assuming the taming of costs! In recent years, health-care costs have actually grown 2 to 3 percent faster than the economy. If that continues, your 22-year-old self is looking at an additional $2 million or so in expenses over your lifetime--roughly $4 million in total. Would you have guessed these numbers were so large? If not, you have good cause: only a quarter would be paid by you directly (and much of that after retirement). The rest would be spent by others on your behalf, deducted from your earnings before you received your paycheck. And that's a big reason why our health-care system is so expensive. | |
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| 08-27-09 01:39am - 5596 days | #36 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Some sad news to add to this thread, but it should be mentioned, Senator Ted Kennedy has died. Not to sound morbid or hyperbolic, but I feel this is the literal death that some were waiting for in the health care 'debate' -- if you can even call it that -- and will mark the beginning of the end of any possibility of reform. I know there as been plenty of talk of 'starting from scratch' and 'trying reform again in a year or so' and 'let's not do it until we can do it right' but these are just classic stall-and-forget tactics that have been used over and over again for decades. I just hope I am completely wrong on this one. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 10-27-10 01:40pm - 5170 days | #37 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
Next Tuesday is election day here in the U.S. For those non-Americans (the Tea Party types simply refer to them as "Unamericans" or "Illegals") who are trying to figure out what the hell we're doing to ourselves, I offer the following brief pictorial explanation of our current political landscape:  | |
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| 10-27-10 01:47pm - 5170 days | #38 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User  Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
Hmm, are you liberal?  | |
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| 10-27-10 02:38pm - 5170 days | #39 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Well, he is from the "Left Coast, USA." But then again you're from Boston, so you're probably not far behind, though both are still to the right of most of Western Europe. I don't know what's more shocking in this election cycle--the craziness on the right or the cowardice on the left--though both have become quite typical in modern American politics. Wish their was an anti-Christine O'Donnell who (openly) supported masturbation...just to even things out. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 10-28-10 07:03am - 5169 days | #40 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I was going to say something about this, but I never knew quite how to do it. I shall try to keep it as brief as possible. I shall call it as I see it from a foreign perspective. To me, Obama is my favourite all time politician. That a decent man is in the White House is something I would have considered impossible. I thought we would always see a lying cheating piece of shit as President or Prime Minister. I presume people elected Obama because he represents decency and helping the less well off, and he promised to do things like take action on health reform. The minute he starts to actually do something he was elected to do, people seem against it. He is one of the few politicians to keep his election promises. The conclusion supports the theory I have had for years. People are generally selfish bastards who pretend they care, but don't. They'd rather elect some bunch of people who they can then blame for all the poor and suffering going on, than themselves, for being selfish greedy scum of the earth, who don't want to hand over any of their money in taxes, to help. People only pretend they want to help others and support liberal stuff. They'd rather lie, cheat, kill, and stamp on everyone in their everyday life while earning shitloads of money, which rather than be obliged to hand over in tax, they keep in order to hand over a small amount to charity, quite often in public, just to let everyone know what great people they are. Then they get to blah about what great charitable people they are, as they patronisingly pat some black kid on the head while handing over a dollar, which makes them feel so superior. They make sick. There was some old woman on tv from Boston who voted for Obama. She was now against him because she considered she was paying enough in taxes. So why vote for him in the first place? So you can blame him for the poor and the helpless as he refuses to tax people more to make them pay for the less privileged. You thought he wouldn't keep his election promises, and everything would stay the same, and you would get to feel good about yourself for being such a liberal nice person. But he aint going to do it, you fucking bitch. | |
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| 10-28-10 11:52am - 5169 days | #41 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I, too, was going to keep my nose out of it because Americans don't like foreigners commenting on their political system but I agree with Turboshaft ... the right has developed an incredible mean streak while the left are cowards because rather than follow their agenda they've been trying to build bridges to people who would automatically say no to anything a Democrat proposes. What makes things worse is that those damned, despicable campaign attack ads are now also being broadcast by the left. There's going to be another civil war yet .. both sides are so bitter and entrenched in their ideologies that I can't see a rational solution to the bloodless war that's already raging. | |
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| 10-28-10 02:05pm - 5169 days | #42 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Actually his administration lowered taxes for the vast majority of Americans, but they so did by decreasing the amount of withholding on people's paychecks. The idea was that this would stimulate the economy more than a lump sum stimulus check as was done under the Bush II administration since people would spend the extra amount rather than save a single check. The problem was virtually no one noticed it, whereas tax rebate checks make for great PR. They essentially buy the one-track mind voters who are opposed to any and all taxes. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 10-28-10 04:38pm - 5169 days | #43 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
At least the Brits are making some semblance of an effort at an austerity budget by cutting a bunch of spending. I love how all the conservatives over here say that they're going to cut taxes, preserve military spending, roll back Obamacare (aka - no changes to medicare / medicaid) and vote for a balanced budget. Even if you eliminated all discretionary spending by the US government outside of the military (meaning no homeland defense, infrastructure or education investment, parks, etc) we'd still be running a budget deficit. The big problem here is that no one is serious about tackling our long term liabilities or making long term investments in our infrastructure and educational systems. Even if the Republicans win big on Tuesday they're still going to look like fools in a few years ... the Dems already look like "asses". | |
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| 10-28-10 05:01pm - 5169 days | #44 | |
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anyonebutme (0)
Active User  Posts: 294 Registered: Aug 23, '09 |
Ah, make it a point to check out the blog sites frequently? These paragraphs are basically a copy of the current daily talking point of the day all across the liberal corner of the net  | |
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| 10-28-10 05:10pm - 5169 days | #45 | |
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anyonebutme (0)
Active User Posts: 294 Registered: Aug 23, '09 |
There is nothing special about Obama, he is just a political activist who was at the right place at the right time to take advantage of the anti-Bush rage. The only way he knows how to get something done is by creating a villain, then demonize the villain. He did that all through the campaign, every day in the office, and will continue to do so until his presidency is over. It's all fun and games until Obama starts calling you personally an irresponsible failure destroying the country for just wanting to be left alone. Nobody listens to Obama anymore. Nobody listens to any politician. They just live in their own world, the 5% of nutcase activists make all the noise in the country, then the rest of us are left to decide which letter is the lesser piece of shit to vote for  | |
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| 10-28-10 05:11pm - 5169 days | #46 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
Most of us have been living above our means for years. In many ways I quite like the attempts to cut spending. Most of us want to see spending going towards the most vulnerable and helpless. Quite often this doesn't happen. This is almost certainly deliberate. Just point your finger towards all the undeserving slobs as an excuse not to help the deserving ones. Is Obama not seeking to reform health care and do something that no other President has done in living memory? This is the heart of the matter. Make sure the money goes to the right people. In order for this to happen, someone has to pay for it. But just because there is money being wasted in all the wrong places doesn't mean that the most vulnerable don't need help. So Americans, why is Obama not acclaimed as one of the greats? Is he getting criticised for doing what he was elected to do, or is he not doing it? If not, where is he failing? | |
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| 10-28-10 07:15pm - 5169 days | #47 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
What do people think of the "Tea Party"? Several months ago when I started hearing rumblings about it being a movement for middle-of-the-road people being fed up with the way government was running & fiscal responsibility I was interested to see where the grass roots movement was heading. I even thought it could be a good thing if it lead to some sane, intelligent politicians breaking from party lines and working for what the majority of people want. Well, that didn't happen! LOL. In it's current state it has out-crazied the idiots in the GOP. It's turned into a way for Republicans to reinvent themselves and really let their freak flags fly. It's a shame because in the pre-Bush era there used to be reasonable candidates in both parties. | |
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| 10-28-10 07:18pm - 5169 days | #48 | |
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Goldfish (0)
Active User Posts: 265 Registered: Jan 19, '08 Location: Boston, MA |
I do think Obama is a good president -- and best of all he is sane! It's too early to be calling him great however. He still has a lot of work to do and has fumbled a few balls -- i.e. recent decisions with gay rights, for example. | |
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| 10-29-10 01:43am - 5168 days | #49 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
 If you consider the New York Times just a blog site. Oh wait, can't trust the lamestream media, sorry. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 10-29-10 01:55am - 5168 days | #50 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
"Sane"? "Intelligent"?  Thanks for the laugh. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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