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| Porn Users Forum » Porn Star Testing HIV Positive! |
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| 06-12-09 08:01pm - 5672 days | Original Post - #1 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Porn Star Testing HIV Positive! Just saw that sad news scrolling on the bottom of a news cast. Does anyone know who it might be? It didn't mention a name, nor if the star was male of female. This could cause quite the uproar in porn valley. | |
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| 06-12-09 08:41pm - 5672 days | #2 | |
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james4096 (0)
Suspended Posts: 132 Registered: Mar 02, '09 |
I heard that is was more than one, like a dozen or more. I think HIV is more pervasive in porn than they are willing to admit. I bet many people who have it just disappear from the industry and do not tell anyone. | |
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| 06-12-09 08:47pm - 5672 days | #3 | |
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james4096 (0)
Suspended Posts: 132 Registered: Mar 02, '09 |
I googled it quickly and came up with this la times article http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-porn-hiv12-2009jun12,0,3569962.story It was 16 cases of HIV. I don't think they can release the names, but they may get out. | |
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| 06-12-09 09:27pm - 5672 days | #4 | |
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PinkPanther (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,136 Registered: Jan 08, '07 Location: Oakland, CA |
Here's the article at AVN.com: http://business.avn.com/articles/35572.html I've got to say that I've got tremendous respect for Dr Sharon Mitchell - she went from being a porn performer/heroin addict to going through medical school and has done more to prevent AIDS in the adult industry than any other single person alive. I doubt if the adult industry would have shut down to the extent it did a few years ago when there was the mini-HIV breakout for anybody else. | |
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| 06-13-09 12:40am - 5671 days | #5 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
That really is terrible. These people really do not deserve to get these diseases. They are just trying to make a living then to find out they have something that ends their career and completely changes their lives. Plus they could have been transmitting it to other people. What the porn industry, and every night clubber, needs is a cheap, simple, and quick test for HIV/AIDS and all the other big ones. A tests than can be done every time, kinda like a blood sugar tester. This way they can be up to date on this, and make it mandatory. I know they get tested a lot, but unless they had a full test 10 minutes before the scene I do not know that I would trust them to not have anything. Well, hopefully they can figure everything out and make sure it is not spreading further! "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 06-13-09 11:12am - 5671 days | #6 | |
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atrapat (0)
Active User  Posts: 182 Registered: Apr 19, '08 Location: Non-USA |
I get somewhat lost in all the jargon but it looks like it's one performer who tested HIV positive in the beginning of June plus 16 other unrelated cases since 2004 (date of the last public outbreak) that hadn't been disclosed previously. Among those 16 there are both people who wanted to enter the industry and were testing for the first time and people who were already in the industry. | |
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| 06-13-09 01:16pm - 5671 days | #7 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I sure hope that one performer wasn't a male because that pool of "actors" is pretty small and he could have infected many women especially in all those scenes where anal, unprotected sex is featured. | |
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| 06-13-09 02:09pm - 5671 days | #8 | |
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atrapat (0)
Active User Posts: 182 Registered: Apr 19, '08 Location: Non-USA |
This xbiz news piece quotes an AIM spokesperson referring to the Patient Zero as a woman. http://www.xbiz.com/news/news_piece.php?id=109218 | |
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| 06-13-09 02:26pm - 5671 days | #9 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Thanks for that link, atrapat. Doesn't sound quite as bad as the media made it out to be. | |
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| 06-13-09 02:49pm - 5671 days | #10 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
I agree with your admiration for Dr. Sharon Mitchell, Pink Panther. I learned quite a bit today by following some of the links provided. Thanks everyone for your response. I was more than a bit disturbed when I first saw the headline because I had assumed that the controls were quite stringent and that the industry was quite safe for most performers. As someone who dislikes scenes featuring condoms I also felt more than a little guilty for enjoying them. :-( | |
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| 06-13-09 06:42pm - 5671 days | #11 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
To begin with the perfomer was working with a 37 day old test. That is a big no in the industry. Each performer must have a valid test. The maximum length is 30 days for a test to be valid, so this performer should hot have ben working. Whomever hired her knowing this is likely to be in big trouble quite soon. The story mentions 16 performers and I have seen on some sites the number be as high as 22. This is another case of irresponsible journalism since these people never actually worked in the industry and therefore could not have infected other performer. That said I would have no issue with a condom only penetration porn. I am fairly alone in this preference but I still hope. I'd rather not read that one or many of my favorite performers were infected with AIDS. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-13-09 06:54pm - 5671 days | #12 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
Using a condom kind of pricks the bubble of my sex fantasy. Having said that, if there is even the smallest chance of anyone getting AIDS from unprotected sex, fuck fantasy. Male performers should all use condoms. | |
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| 06-13-09 07:02pm - 5671 days | #13 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I know that most people prefer the bareback look. I'm part of a small minority that doesn't care either way. I grew up watching 70's porn where there was no mention of condoms, so I understand the reasons for it. I just don't want my enjoyment of something be the cause of someone's health being affected. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-16-09 12:44pm - 5668 days | #14 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
When is it ever as bad as the media makes it out to be? More mainstream, and particularly conservative, media outlets love these stories, because they use them to get up on their soapboxes and "prove" that porn really is dangerous or unhealthy, as if STDs do not exist outside the world of porn. I will say that even if the porn industry views itself as safe, there is no 100% guarantee of never contracting something. Yes, they have mandatory testings ever thirty days...but what about the rest of the time they are still having sex? The test results immediately go out the door as soon as they fuck unprotected. I give them credit for being upfront about the dangers of AIDS/HIV, and being honest whenever there is an outbreak, such as this, and not ignoring it like other, seemingly more "moral," groups of society. Life is full of risks, and I think they deal with them pretty responsibly. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-16-09 12:58pm - 5668 days | #15 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
As little as I say I care about the male talent, I somehow always have issues with them, including the condom issue. Like others have written here, I think it is the whole fantasy aspect. If these two people are doing all kinds of crazy, back breaking, eye opening sex acts, then the mundane reality of a condom detracts from all the fun. I mean, who among us actually fantasize about encounters that include using condoms? My recent membership I had with Explicite Art stood out because almost every scene with a guy involved condom use. I can't say it actually hurt the scenes -- they still yanked them off to shoot at the girls' faces -- but it somehow made it a little different (less dirty?) than the normal condom-free craziness we see from all the U.S. studios and sites. Maybe it's why I always return to solo girl material: you can never feel guilty about enjoying it...until some (un)lucky cameraman or towel girl get hit in the face with some errant body fluids. ;) "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 06-16-09 03:19pm - 5668 days | #16 | |
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exotics4me (0)
Active User  Posts: 664 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: USA |
Here is maybe a different story about it. http://mystateline.com/content/fulltext/?cid=74281 My first time I jacked off, I thought I'd invented it. I looked down at my sloppy handful of junk and thought, This is going to make me rich. - Chuck Palahniuk | |
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| 06-16-09 06:53pm - 5668 days | #17 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
:-) That must be the reason, why I too keep going back to solo girl material. Must go and subscribe to a site that is mostly solo or g/g. It's been a while. | |
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| 06-16-09 06:55pm - 5668 days | #18 | |
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messmer (0)
Disabled User Posts: 2,582 Registered: Sep 12, '07 Location: Canada |
Interesting, exotics4me. I didn't know that male performers in California have to use condoms by law. Who is making all those DVDs containing unprotected sex then. I thought most of them originated in California. | |
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| 06-16-09 07:51pm - 5668 days | #19 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
From a wikipedia article on pornography: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornographic_film The global pornographic film industry is dominated by the United States, with the San Fernando Valley area outside Los Angeles, California being the heart of the industry.[18] This being the case, most figures on the size of the industry refer solely to the U.S. Attempts were made in the 1970s to outlaw pornography in the United States by prosecuting porn stars for prostitution. The courts in California were where the case was initially made, and stopped short of advancing the case to the United States Supreme Court for a final decision. It was this decision and acceptance to let stand whereby the California Court made a legal distinction in the case of People v. Freeman between someone who took part in a sexual relationship for money (prostitution) versus someone who takes on the act of merely portraying role where a sexual relationship was engaged in on-screen act as part of their acting performance. It is this specific legal distinction between pornography and prostitution in California law that has allowed California to become the porn center of the United States. In the 1980s, an outbreak of HIV led to a number of deaths of erotic actors and actresses, including John Holmes, Wade Nichols, Marc Stevens, Al Parker and Lisa De Leeuw. This led to the creation of the Adult Industry Medical Health Care Foundation, which helped set up a system in the U.S. adult film industry where erotic actors are tested for HIV every 30 days. All sexual contact is logged, and positive test results lead to all sexual contacts for the last three to six months being contacted and re-tested. The use of condoms became standard in films featuring homosexual anal sex. Thanks to accurate and mandatory medical tests HIV cases are nowdays extremely rare in the pornographic industry. The system seemed to be effective, with very few AIDS cases among porn actors. Marc Wallice, a known IV drug user, tested HIV positive in 1998, sending shockwaves throughout the industry. In April 2004, an AIDS scare rocked the heterosexual US porn industry when two pornographic actors tested HIV positive in California, the hotbed of U.S. porn production. The straight segment of the porn industry voluntarily shut down for 30 days (a 60 day moratorium was originally announced but it was lifted early) while it tried to deal with the situation. Three actors, Darren James, Jenny Gaynor and Lara Roxx, initially tested positive, and were barred from further sexually explicit content production. About sixty actors who had contact with James or Roxx were barred from working until their next round of HIV testing was completed and they were declared HIV negative.A further estimated 130 actors who had contact with Gaynor were tested and also received a HIV negative result. A total of five actors were diagnosed with the virus by the end of the moratorium: one male and four females, including one transsexual. James most likely contracted HIV while filming a pornographic movie in Brazil and then passed it to the other women, excluding the transsexual, who was considered an unrelated case. Roxx was shocked by the news of her HIV status, believing porn actors to be cleaner than the general public. AIM Healthcare Foundation claims the rate of STD's in adult film actors in production companies that follow the AIM testing protocols is 80% less than that of the general public. Due to this limited outbreak, the California State government considered regulating the industry. Some proposed to mandate the wearing of condoms during sexually explicit scenes. Industry insiders say this would ruin sales of their wares since the unprotected content is one of the selling points of some of their films. They say the wearing of condoms ruins the sexual fantasy of many viewers. Insiders say that such regulation would force the industry underground, out of California or overseas where it would be more prone to health risks for performers. The non-profit Adult Industry Medical Health Care Foundation is working with the government, trying to develop policies that both the industry and the government would find acceptable. In June 2009, AIM Healthcare Foundation reported another adult entertainer had become HIV+-though it appeared likely this transmission occurred in her private life. LA County Public Health claimed that there had been 16 "unreported" HIV case in the adult film industry. AIM Healthcare Foundation claimed those cases did not involve actors in production companies that followed their testing protocols and included members of the general public that use AIM Healthcare testing services or were individual attempting to work in the porn industry who never were able to obtain employment in adult films because of their failure to prove freedom from HIV or other STD's. So the story/link posted by exotics4me appears to be inaccurate: http://mystateline.com/content/fulltext/?cid=74281 "Los Angeles County health officials tell the "Times" they are launching an investigation into the incident to make sure the adult film industry is complying with state rules that require porn stars to use condoms." But the wikipedia article indicates there is no California state law requiring porn stars to use condoms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornographic_film | |
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| 06-17-09 05:16am - 5667 days | #20 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
Not that it really changes the impact of AIDS in the porn industry or any of the discussion here, but, as a side note, check out this Wiki on Lisa De Leeuw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_De_Leeuw Dead or alive? Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 06-17-09 08:45am - 5667 days | #21 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
Getting reliable information on porn stars, sometimes even basic information on whether they are dead or alive, can sometimes be a real pain or just beyond the possible. On the "Goodbye to your favorite" thread/forum, https://www.pornusers.com/forum/forum_use...l?id=5722&page=3 I wrote in post #19, 12-19-08 10:00am : "Liana Shevchenko only modeled porn for about 2 years. She was not a superstar, just a very good-looking young girl. That's why it's not easy finding current information about her on the Internet. If you do google searches about much more popular people in the entertainment industry, trying to find information about their current activities, you often come up with little or no current information, unless they are superstars or very popular. So solid proof that she is alive or dead might be difficult or almost impossible to find." Liana was a young nude model (not really a porn star) who appeared on 8teenies.com, teenstarsmagazine.com and perfect10.com. There were a couple of videos posted of her where the title included "R.I.P.", indicating she was dead. And there were one or more brief posts on the internet stating she had died. But there was no reliable source for the statement she was dead. She would have been in her 20s at the time of her death, if it were true. I argued in the thread that there was no reliable way of checking if she was dead or not. Just because one or more people post that someone is dead, is very little to no proof. I wrote post #18 on that thread: "On youtube, I currently see 2 videos with Liana Shevchenko. I did not say the videos were fake. The videos are poor copies that were probably taken from the 8teenies site, where she was named Melissa. The videos are real. I just don't believe the girl is dead based on the fact the poster titles the videos with RIP. I need a bit more proof. Maybe that's my hang-up. I've heard that youtube has removed videos because of copyright concerns. I've never heard that youtube bothers to check the factual accuracy of a RIP titled video of a former pornstar. Cheers." RIP Liana Shevchenko (Isabelle, Melissa), Ukraine candid dance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlEAvixYai8 RIP Liana Shevchenko (Isabella, Melissa), Ukraine model dance part 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4iMVFvni...&feature=related | |
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| 06-17-09 09:12am - 5667 days | #22 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
Off topic/side note: Sometimes, even when you read that a person is dead, and the post is supposed to be factual, it turns out the person is not dead after all. This is a post I made 12-18-08 09:35am on the thread: Porn Users Forum � Goodbye to your favorite https://www.pornusers.com/forum/forum_use...l?id=5722&page=3 "Just because a few people post that Liana Shevchenko is dead, does [not] give me hard evidence she is dead. I saw a couple of youtube videos with a title that Liana was dead. Means very little as far as proof is concerned. I saw the blogs you posted: http://lianashevchenko.wordpress.com/ http://ukraine-girl.blogspot.com/ http://technorati.com/videos/tag/models+rip The first blog (URL) above says she is dead, but gives no details. The second blog (URL) above does not say she is dead, just has a link to some photos of her. The third blog (URL) has links to dead models, but I don't see Liana Shevchenko listed. For proof of death, I would like to see either a newspaper article quoted, where I can check the article itself for details, or a magazine article, where I could again check the article itself. Some unknown person posting that Liana Shevchenko has died has very little basis for proof. Below are listed true cases where people were reported dead, long before they actually died: ABE VIGODA often looked dead on the 1970s sitcom Barney Miller, where he played the gloomy and rumpled Detective Sgt. Phil Fish. In 1992 People magazine reported that Vigoda was dead, and by 2001 Vigoda's presumed demise had become such a pop culture joke that even the New York Times mentioned it in a story on his 80th birthday. In 1999 Vigoda almost made the rumors come true: he was a passenger on an American Airlines flight that lost pressure at 31,000 feet. The plane made an emergency landing and everyone (including Vigoda) survived. ALEXANDER THE GREAT was still new at the king business in 335 B.C. When the citizens of Thebes heard a rumor that he had died, they revolted against Macedonian rule. Bad move: within a fortnight Alexander and his army marched south and sacked the city. Alexander really did die in 323 B.C.E., under mysterious circumstances. While living in Europe in 1897, American writer MARK TWAIN discovered that at least one U. S. newspaper had reported his death. Somehow information in a letter about one of Twain's dying relatives got twisted around, the paper reported Twain dead and eventually word reached the author across the Atlantic. Twain drily wrote to a friend, "The report of my death was an exaggeration." (He is also said to have told a reporter for the Evening Sun newspaper that "Reports of my death are grossly exaggerated.") Twain died in 1910. RICHARD DAWSON was a game show giant in the 1970s, first as a panelist on the goofy Match Game and then as host of TV's Family Feud. His career ground to a halt in the mid-1980s, and by the 1990s rumors were circulating that Dawson was dead. Possibly the rumor-mongers were thinking of Dawson's successor as host of Family Feud, Ray Combs, who really did commit suicide in 1996. Like Richard Dawson, SCOTT BAIO's career went from hot to not: a teen heartthrob in the 1970s for his role as Chachi in the popular TV series Happy Days, Baio hopped through four other TV series through the 1980s and into the '90s, but as the years went by he was less frequently seen on the home screen. Maybe that's why in 1997 a rumor spread on the Internet that Baio had died. Baio reportedly resorted to leaving a cheery message on his answering machine announcing that he wasn't dead. " The reports above, about the death of real people, all turned out to be false. | |
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| 06-17-09 05:39pm - 5667 days | #23 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
Here are the names of female performers that have died due to aids based on IAFD/rame.net website: Lisa Melendez, Lisa de Leeuw. The majority are male and most but not all were in gay porn. There might be more but they only post confirmed if not then it can classified under medical or something. The number of suicide is far greater. In my opinion one performer is still one too many. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 06-20-09 09:05pm - 5664 days | #24 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User  Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
16?!! Wow. That's what you get for not hiring straight guys. | |
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| 07-12-09 05:11pm - 5642 days | #26 | |
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Doug62 (0)
Disabled User Posts: 19 Registered: May 08, '07 |
Speaking of Ukraine they have now banned all porn, I have posted a tread on it called Ukraine bans all porn. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/07/ukraine_bans_filth/ | |
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| 07-12-09 05:17pm - 5642 days | #28 | |
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Doug62 (0)
Disabled User Posts: 19 Registered: May 08, '07 |
Liana Shevchenko (Isabelle, Melissa)was Ukrainian and speaking of ukraine see the above message. | |
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| 08-20-09 08:22pm - 5603 days | #29 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
Update on the condom controversy in California porn industry. Today's article clearly states that condoms are not required in porn films in California, and that some people are urging that condoms be required. http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.o...mandating-condoms-ap Porn makers challenged for not mandating condoms (AP) Source: AP 3 hours, 1 minute ago LOS ANGELES - An AIDS advocacy group filed complaints Thursday with state officials against 16 production companies that show unprotected sex in porn movies. The AIDS Healthcare Foundation filed the action with the California Division of Occupational Safety and Health, alleging the practice amounts to unsafe behavior in a California workplace. "We will not stop until there is a policy of requiring condoms to be used in porn," foundation president Michael Weinstein said. By law, U.S. adult film actors must prove they have tested negative for HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases within 30 days of going to work on a film. CalOSHA spokesman Dean Fryer said the regulatory agency requires workers in any industry where there is a "possibility of transmission of fluids," including health care and adult films, to reduce the risk of disease transmission. "The employers of porn actors are required to provide a safe and healthy work environment," Fryer said. Nearly 60 adult DVDs accompany the complaints against Hustler Video, Maverick Entertainment, Vivid and other porn production companies in Los Angeles. Many people in the multibillion-dollar industry oppose the use of condoms in the films. Hustler publisher Larry Flynt told The Associated Press, "people who enjoy viewing adult films do not want to see people using condoms." "While it might provide some additional protection, the sales are not going to be there to make the effort worthwhile for the actors and actresses," he said. Flynt praised laws mandating monthly testing for adult film actors as a highly effective way to prevent the spread of AIDS. Vivid Entertainment head Steven Hirsch agreed. "If we didn't think the proper testing was in place, we would do something about it," he said. A call to Maverick was not immediately returned. Weinstein said AIDS could be spread through the on-camera behavior and noted that many people get their sex education from porn movies. Watching unprotected sex could prompt them to be careless during sex acts, he said. Former porn actress Jan Meza said she asked about the use of condoms when she first started appearing in adult films in 2006. "I was told that I would never get work again," said Meza, who later contracted herpes. Meza stopped appearing in films in 2007 and went to work for a charity group that provides safe haven to performers who want to leave the industry. The labor complaints are part of the AIDS advocacy group's broader campaign to mandate the use of condoms in porn. Last month, it filed a lawsuit against the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health, calling on officials to enforce health and safety rules on adult film sets to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. In June, health inspectors paid a surprise visit to the Adult Industry Medical Healthcare Foundation in San Fernando Valley, a clinic where an adult film actress recently tested positive for HIV. The inspection was part of a broader investigation into the clinic, which has reported 22 other HIV cases since 2004. At least five performers for Vivid Entertainment, tested positive for HIV that year, prompting a brief self-imposed moratorium on porn production. Fryer said CalOSHA is awaiting a court ruling on an injunction sought by the American Civil Liberties Union to prevent the agency from accessing medical files at the clinic. "Our elected officials and our government are treating the young people who are performing in these films as trash that don't deserve protection," Weinstein said. Weinstein said no state legislators have agreed to sponsor the group's proposal to mandate condoms in porn movies. Hirsch said the adult film industry would likely leave California if the use of condoms became mandatory. | |
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| 08-20-09 09:33pm - 5603 days | #30 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Really? This sounds incredibly dubious, and just another cheap shot to the porn industry. I wonder what he means by "sex education," since porn is built on fantasy, not reality! Even if everyone used condoms he would probably start bitching about kissing (and have to attack the mainstream film industry as well), and then eventually any possible skin-to-skin contact. His mandatory condom use ideas might work in some narrow latex fetish genre, but mainstream companies will never accept them. They will just work around them or flat out ignore him. (Here's a link from AHF's site listing some of the offending companies.) "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-20-09 10:03pm - 5603 days | #31 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
I wish they had shown a good Hustler film during my sex education classes! Barely Legal would have done nicely, or Hot Showers to promote lesbian sex in the shower room, hell all us guys knew that was going on in the girls locker room anyway. :) Condom use in porn is a huge turn off. They did it for a while back with the AIDs scare and I hate those scenes. I recently seen a lesbian movie were they used plastic wrap that was filmed during that time. Condoms take so much away from porn because we all know they take away from real sex. I honestly do not want to fantasize about something I do not enjoy doing. Like any sport, the rules will ultimately be put in place to maximize fan enjoyment (read: sales). "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 08-21-09 12:55pm - 5602 days | #32 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
I saw the article Lk2fireone notes in todays' paper. It's definitely an interesting twist to the argument and one that might carry traction. The point the AIDS activists are making is really a workplace safety one (OSHA guideline). In pretty much any other workplace setting where people come into contact with bodily fluids there is usually a laundry list of precautions that the government mandates employers and their employees/contractors to follow. Using the activists logic, it's a pretty convincing argument that pornstars should be wearing protection to limit the potential of disease transmission. The counter argument is somewhat legalistic and has nothing to do with what the public wants to see (just because people want to see criminals getting fed to the lions doesn't mean we have the right to see it) or where it gets it's sex ed from. The whole argument being made depends on how California defines pornstars as employees engaged in standard employment practices. First, there is the argument that if employees/pornstars are appropriately screened for HIV then there is minimal risk of disease transmission. However, this argument on its own probably doesn't work because of the recent HIV cases that have come up and it doesn't include other diseases like hepatitis, crabs, HPV virus (virus that greatly increases the risks of cervical cancer), etc. Second, you're getting into the realm of the bedroom (quite literally). The US courts have basically taken the position that you can't discriminate against consenting adults for what the they do sexually behind closed doors. It seems to me that so long as porn stars are tested and clean and sign a consent form stating that they know about the potential risks of unprotected sex then they're not doing anything else that the rest of America doesn't do. None of us would be here if protected sex were the law of the land. While the sex on camera aspect of porn isn't for the purpose of procreation, I can't see a court stepping into the whole "intent of the act" debate about porn. That's about as slippery a slope as you'd ever find. My point is that porn is not your standard work place. It's a mix of a workplace (the set, the dressing rooms, lighting rigs, etc.) and a mix of consenting adults partaking in a first amendment (among others) protected activity. You can never eliminate the "dangers" of sex in the real world so why expect otherwise out of the porn industry? The AIDS activists could counter by saying that the sex is really part of the workplace because that's what the stars are getting paid to do and they wouldn't be there otherwise or getting paid for doing something else (I'm omitting the solo sex scenes on this one). This argument takes the position that pornstars are employees who are essentially being held hostage by the demands of the producers. If this were true, consenting adult/first amendent issues aside, then the government probably could step in and mandate that certain sex precaustions be taken. However, using this rationale, the government could just conclude that the risks are too high given the whole multiple partner aspect of porn sex (not just orgies but high volume of M/F scenes with various stars) and exchange of bodily fluids that porn is too dangerous of an industry to even be allowed to exist as it does, condoms or not. That rationale runs counter to Californian courts finding that porn is a constitionally protected enterprise. It also drags the state into the realm of sex between consenting adults where I don't think it wants to go and where the courts may ultimately stop them from going. Even if California adopted a "condoms only" law, which is the intent behind the AIDS activists arguments that could be legall problematic for the reasons I pointed out. Such a law or workplace requirement would be tied up in the courts for years. My logic and reasoning ain't flawless by any stretch but I don't think we're going to see a "Cali Condom Code" any time soon ... for no other reason that California is broke and pushing out the porn industry will dry up state coffers even more than they currently exist. Like I noted in a recent post in another thread, the porn industry needs to start showing some real business savvy now a days. Talking about what the public wants and sex ed from porn isn't going to win many supporters. What they should be talking about is constituitionally protections for Americans, the fact that the industry will sue and tie up the issue for years in court (costing the taxpayers a lot of money) and if the industry loses and leaves California how that's going to dry up revenue in a time when the Governator is looking for pennies in his Hummer to fill the budget gap. Edited on Aug 21, 2009, 01:07pm | |
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| 08-22-09 04:41am - 5601 days | #33 | |
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atrapat (0)
Active User Posts: 182 Registered: Apr 19, '08 Location: Non-USA |
The AP article only mentions an unknown former performer who would have rather used condoms in her scenes but I am sure many other performers, some of them much well known, would also like changes to reduce transmission risks. For instance, Nautica Thorn mentioned at her blog after this outbreak that she stopped doing boy-girl scenes about a year ago and that she would only return if a condom-only and one-week old test policy was enforced. It's the 06/13/2009 entry, only available in the members' area. Her exact words were: "up the amount of times tested each month to once a week at least and condoms please. I know some guys hate seeing it, but it keeps your favorite girls from getting sick and continuing to perform.". I also remember reading a well-known performer post on a fan board where he mentioned Sasha Grey was requesting at that time one-week old tests at max from her partners. I haven't been able to find the particular post. There are also already companies that enforce condom-only. I was recently at Wicked Pictures and all scenes have condoms. | |
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| 08-22-09 08:51am - 5601 days | #34 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
As I wrote before, I personally don't like seeing condoms, because it takes away a bit from the scene. But what is more important than my minor likes is the health and well-being of the models. If wearing condoms, and getting more frequent tests, means greater safety for the performers, then that's what should be done. AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases are no joke. As consumers, we should have enough respect for the models to encourage safer sex (without ramming it down their throats). | |
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| 08-22-09 03:24pm - 5601 days | #35 | |
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RagingBuddhist (0)
Disabled User Posts: 893 Registered: Jan 23, '07 |
Well... ever the one to like looking at a story from another angle (and dig up a good conspiracy theory while I'm at it), check this out http://worcester.indymedia.org/news/2005/04/1119.php Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupidity. | |
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| 08-22-09 04:00pm - 5601 days | #36 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
There is a ton of information and mis-information to feed conspiracy theories on the internet. Is the world flat? According to some people, yes, it is. But that's probably not a conspiracy. Unless you count the time taken to teach in schools the view that the world is round (more or less), while any idiot could tell the world is flat, just by the fact that if the world were really round, people would always be falling off the world into space. There have been huge cover-ups in history, in the United States as well as the rest of the world. But I don't think that AIDS is some fake disease. People with AIDS can and do die, which is not always a good thing. The people dying of AIDS probably think it's very bad, because of the pain and suffering and the death. I know that some Christian ministers preached that AIDS was sent by God to punish sinners(homosexuals and others), but I don't believe that. Edited on Aug 22, 2009, 04:12pm | |
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| 08-22-09 09:27pm - 5601 days | #37 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Don't take this too harshly, but those same Christian ministers also very likely believe in their own conspiracy theory, one that says this planet (um 'earth', for those conspiracy theorists) is only a few thousand years old, and the Grand Canyon is the result of a bad flood. Oh, and that 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina were works of god as punishment for the U.S.'s embrace of homosexuality...or sodomites who practice it...or something like that. By the way, when "[p]eople with AIDS can and do die" -- when is that "a good thing"? "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-22-09 10:43pm - 5601 days | #38 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
On a practical basis, also maybe a coward's basis, if you are dying of some painful disease, death at least ends your suffering. If I had a painful form of cancer, I'd much rather go out fast, than linger on in a lot of pain. It depends on your tolerance for pain. From the standpoint of the godly, morally upright Chosen (depending on which religion these bastards belong to), death can be a way of cleansing the earth and making more room for the righteous. I'd never make a preacher, because I don't believe strongly enough in my own bullshit. Not that there aren't any sincere preachers, but there are a lot that really seem to enjoy the sound of their own voice, no matter what they are saying. | |
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| 08-23-09 04:42am - 5600 days | #39 | |
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atrapat (0)
Active User Posts: 182 Registered: Apr 19, '08 Location: Non-USA |
I got up to this paragraph: Dr Robert E. Willner, inoculated himself with the blood of Pedro Tocino, a HIV-positive haemophiliac, on live Spanish television: an event which was not picked up the pharma-beholden British or US media. Funny thing is not even the Spanish television ever picked such thing. | |
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| 08-23-09 08:31am - 5600 days | #40 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
There are 2 nice, simple articles that explain the controversy about the relationship between AIDS and HIV at: http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/rwpost.htm http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/rwcharlotteobs.htm Also the advertisement for a book by Dr. Robert Willner about his ideas on AIDS: http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/books/rwbdeathly.htm The articles say that Dr. Robert Willner injected himself with blood that he claimed was HIV positive. This was done in front of about 30 alternative-medicine practitioners and several journalists, in October 1994. Willner, who says he also injected himself with HIV-infected blood in Spain a year previously, claims to be one of many scientists who now reject the theory that HIV causes AIDS. http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/books/rwbdeathly.htm In 1993, Dr. Willner stunned Spain by inoculating himself with the blood of Pedro Tocino, an HIV positive hemophiliac. This demonstration of devotion to the truth and the Hippocratic Oath he took, nearly 40 years before, was reported on the front page of every major newspaper in Spain. His appearance on Spain's most popular television show envoked a 4 to 1 response by the viewing audience in favor of his position against the "AIDS hypothesis." When asked why he would put his life on the line to make a point, Dr. Willner replied: "I do this to put a stop to the greatest murderous fraud in medical history. By injecting myself with HIV positive blood, I am proving the point as Dr. Walter Reed did to prove the truth about yellow fever. In this way it is my hope to expose the truth about HIV in the interest of all mankind." One statistic that I found interesting is from the Washington Post article: http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/rwpost.htm "Studies of intravenous drug users and health care workers who have accidentally stuck themselves with HIV-contaminated needles suggest that Willner has a less than one-third of one percent chance of actually becoming infected from his dramatic demonstration." If you stick yourself with a a needle contaminated with HIV blood, you have less than one-third of one percent chance of becoming infected yourself. I assume that with multiple exposure the chances increase dramatically, but in all the fictional movies, where the worker somehow is accidentally pricked with a needle or has a bit of blood hit him, KA-POW, ZOOWIE, curtains, end of the line, mister. I shouldn't have to make this comparison, but the movie version of the world can be almost totally fake. | |
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| 08-23-09 11:40am - 5600 days | #41 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Virusmyth looks like another case of Internet bullshit: too many people with too much time on their hands (and who don't spend it downloading porn...) who go and make a website to fuel their fantasies and paranoia. Don't get me wrong; I have plenty of conspiracy theories myself, it's just that I hope no one is dumb enough to actually make a site about them, and make others think they have any basis in reality. Also, this doctor's book is from 1994. I don't know about anyone else, but I would not want to risk my health and well being -- as in if I had AIDS or HIV, which are apparently completely unrelated -- and believe dangerous theories over evolving science and technology. No, one prick from a needle might not have infected one prick like Dr. Willner, but that's like telling people to not wear seat belts on the basis that there is a very low risk of being involved in a serious accident. Still odd how this site posts an article that points this guy out for the dangerous fraud that he was, and the brainless nuts that they are. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-23-09 11:58am - 5600 days | #42 | |
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atrapat (0)
Active User Posts: 182 Registered: Apr 19, '08 Location: Non-USA |
A Washington Post article with the same title shows up in the archives for that date but I've found only one reference to Dr. Willner in a Spanish major newspaper's archive: he was scheduled to appear at a morning talk show on Nov 21, 1993 together with Pedro Tocino, who had contracted AIDS because of a blood transfusion. I'm sure that if Dr. Wilson had made it to the cover the next day, a search would have found some more hits. I really don't remember ever hearing about this TV show. There's another appearance by Pedro Tocino on that same show back in 1992; that day, the show also interviewed a family of seven who were able to talk to their deceased grandfather. | |
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| 08-23-09 08:26pm - 5600 days | #43 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
I'm wondering what the telephone charges would be to talk to a deceased grandfather. On my telephone billing account, if I dial a number that is more than 20 miles away, they charge me the same as if I was dialing another state, even one that would be 2,000-3,000 miles away. So to call someone who is deceased, that might be considered a long-distance call, or it might have an even higher charge. With the family of seven, were they able to reverse the charges, so the deceased grandfather was responsible for the toll charges? I think you can't believe everything you read on the internet. Which was something I had already guessed at, anyway. Can we blame RagingBuddhist for this digression, since he was the one who started this conspiracy discussion? | |
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| 08-23-09 08:33pm - 5600 days | #44 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
My conspiracy theory is that the whole reason RagingBuddhist joined PU was to eventually post a link in order to spread the word about how AIDS is really a myth. All of his reviews and posts have just been a cover to get the 'truth' out. We're on to you RB! "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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| 08-24-09 08:46am - 5599 days | #45 | |
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atrapat (0)
Active User Posts: 182 Registered: Apr 19, '08 Location: Non-USA |
[off-topic] Since the article mentioned Spain had been totally mesmerized by Dr. Willner's performance back in the early 1990s and I was, in fact, a Spaniard at that time, I wanted to make sure my recollection of those years was still right and it looks like it still is. Once I saw who the presenter of the show was, I didn't need to know much more: if he was pulling this kind of things in the morning in '93, you don't want to know how deep he sunk once he got a late night show a couple years later. Besides, back in 1993, there was still only a government-owned telephone company in Spain, so the charges for a long-distance call were literally other-worldly :) [/off-topic] | |
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| 08-25-09 01:36pm - 5598 days | #46 | |
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husthush07 (0)
Suspended Posts: 1 Registered: Aug 25, '09 Location: manila |
They should start coming out from the closet and reveal themselves so that they could seek help | |
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| 09-14-09 08:10pm - 5578 days | #47 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
My prior post above talked about how this was really a workplace safety issue and seems that's how things are playing out for now. I saw an article last week (sorry, can't remember where) where attorneys for the adult organization were discussing the whole condoms in porn thing. Apparently Cal-OSHA (the state public safety board) is taking the position that all porn sets must have a hazardous substance policy and other written workplace safety codes. Since most employers need to have this stuff I guess I don't see a problem with the porn people needing it; just another sign that porn is a mature industry run by people who don't have much business sense. More importantly, Cal-OSHA takes the position that all porn sets must use condoms even though there is no written code or law requiring such. The bottom line is that if some prude files a complaint with Cal-OSHA and they investigate, the production company will have to use condoms from then on or risk getting shut down. I guess it's the porn industry's turn to fight back in court and show that current HIV testing procedures are enough to justify a "no condoms policy" along with any other legal claims they might have. | |
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| 12-08-09 01:18pm - 5493 days | #48 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
I just recently saw an editorial in Forbes magazine regarding the whole condoms in porn issue. As noted previously in this thread, several groups (including the State of California) want to regulate the porn industry and require the use of condoms in porn scenes in order to protect the actors from HIV and STDs. However, there is a big downside, mainly the threat of an HIV outbreak - the very problem that advocates of regulation want to prevent. Here's the deal. First, in order for state OSHA (health and safety rules) to apply to porn stars they would have to be considered employees. This fact alone would cause mainstream Hollywood to go nuts because that goes against the grain of a lot of their business model (most actors are considered contractors I believve) so right away this regulation effort could face a lot of silent lobbying from the Big Boys of movies which might stop it cold in it's tracks. Second, if the laws regarding condom useage well required, that means that the rest of California's OSHA laws would also have to be applied. Other OSHA laws specificially prohibit employers from testing employees for HIV as a condition of employment. Moreover, an employee who is HIV positive cannot be denied employment because s/he might be HIV positive. Thus, the current HIV testing that the industry voluntarily uses would become illegal and the result is that you have people never getting tested until it's way too late. Third, even if California makes condom useage mandatory all that's going to happen is that black market porn will blossom (who the hell will know if the bedroom scene was shot in LA or Miami) or that the industry will just pack up and leave the state taking the big dollars with them to other states. In any case, California and the industry pretty much loses if mandatory condoms becomes the law of that land. Here's the article if you're interested: http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/07/enterta...exandre-padilla.html | |
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| 12-10-09 01:50pm - 5491 days | #49 | |
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davidx (0)
Active User  Posts: 6 Registered: Dec 10, '09 Location: toronto |
most movies now where protection isnt used are homemade videos featuring man and wife or boyfriend girlfriend having said that I still agree with you that these guys should dome up; I wouldn't bet my life on those porn company AIDS test David when it comes to porn I have to see everything I hate that side angle crap! | |
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| 10-13-10 12:24pm - 5184 days | #50 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
As many of you have heard, there's been another California pornstar who's been found to have HIV. As a result, several of the large production companies have temporarily shut down production. This is probably the nail in the coffin for California requiring pornstars to use condoms in sex scenes. It was probably going to happen anyway but I think puts the icing on the cake. I was thinking that those among us who are really anti condom will have to switch their tastes to Euro porn. But I was wondering what the deal is with Euro stars testing positive for HIV. You never really hear about it in the US. Is that because it's just sort of swept under the table (I believe that is for Eastern Euro porn) and never discussed or something that doesn't raise as many eyebrows over there? | |
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| 10-13-10 07:24pm - 5184 days | #51 | |
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pat362 (0)
Active User Posts: 3,575 Registered: Jan 23, '07 Location: canada |
I don't know if the groups pushing for mandatory condom use in all porn made in California will win their fight but it's certain that this latest HIV patient will help their case. It appears that he was an actor that did both gay and straight movies. We'll know who it is very soon but it can't be fun if you're one of the girls who had unprotected sex with him or any of the guys that had sex with one of the girls that had sex with him. I don't know if there have been that many HIV outbreaks Overseas that haven't reported. I think that more likely we don't hear much about it because in the US everything gets reported on hundreds of sites, radio shows and TV shows. Long live the Brown Coats. | |
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| 10-13-10 07:49pm - 5184 days | #52 | |
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turboshaft (0)
Active User Posts: 1,958 Registered: Apr 01, '08 |
Maybe's it because we (the U.S. I mean) have some very strong anti-porn groups that want to push their all-sex-is-bad "morals" on us and so even a single case of HIV or AIDS in the industry gets a lot of press as a result. Don't fool yourself into thinking these are just fringes or extremists. There are a lot of people, with wealth and influence, who have been working against porn and really anything sexual for a long time. These people are just looking for an excuse to regulate or shut down what they don't like, and probably see the whole AIDS pandemic as a sign of "God's will" or something similar for the sins committed by the industry. Problem is there is rather large (if anonymous) audience buying and viewing porn, and I'll bet the majority still don't want to see condoms used. The industry will just wait it out as usual, but I doubt they will really use protection beyond semi-regular blood testing and a general sense of trust among talent. Unfortunate but true. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove | |
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