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03-28-18  09:13am - 2476 days #305
Loki (0)
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Registered: Jun 13, '07
Location: California
People seem to think that running the government like a business is an admirable thing that should be done. But business is run on the profit motive, while government is supposed to be run on the principle of bettering the common good.

This leads to a fascination with business leaders as potential political leaders because they "know how things work" or can weed out "waste, fraud, and abuse" in the system. But business leaders don't actually know how government works, and waste and fraud are ferreted out by autonomous audits. Abuse of the system seems to be the core principle of Congress. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-28-18  09:03am - 2476 days #6
Loki (0)
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Originally Posted by Jade1:


There's also a twisted pleasure in the pursuit of something that sometimes trumps the thing itself.


Spock said in the Star Trek TOS episode "Amok Time" that "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-27-18  06:58pm - 2477 days #4
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I too tend to be a porn hoarder. One of the things that helps me is simply joining fewer sites and downloading less material. I originally did it to reduce my monthly porn budget, but I stopped joining sites willy-nilly and downloading all sorts of extraneous scenes. I really enjoy a lot of different types of porn, but don't join many sites, and when I do, I make a decision if downloading anything is worth the inconvenience of spending the time agonizing about how and where to store it (or shuffle it between my externals). More often than not, I join, look around, enjoy streaming new stuff, then move on. I only download new stuff in the genres I keep coming back to.

I just went through a lot of my collection. I looked at all the stuff out of my core interests and dumped it all whether I liked it or not. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-26-18  04:18pm - 2478 days #4
Loki (0)
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Location: California
Originally Posted by merc77:


It used to be people spoke to the school board to resolve a problem. Now they sue for money. Typical.


This incident occurred at a university (with a board of trustees) rather than at public school (with an elected school board). She also went through the processes to get relief from the university and nothing happened. It is now only her only option to go to the courts for redress. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-26-18  04:14pm - 2478 days #5
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I agree with the directors. But I spent a lot of time in film classes at USC learning about film theory, like the directors, and probably have a bias, again like the directors. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-25-18  12:19pm - 2479 days #20
Loki (0)
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Registered: Jun 13, '07
Location: California
Jook, I appreciate your point of view and understand that politics is a major turn-off for you--no one wants a turn-off on their porn site Please don't regret starting this thread, I feel it has been valuable and sort of long overdue to hash out what people want from PU. I myself was worried about too much politics on PU and posted a poll about it a few weeks ago. The poll results showed that people didn't like the political threads, but there was no consensus to change the forum rules.

Poll February 13, 2108 https://www.pornusers.com/replies_view.html?id=105699

Jook's last post came online as I posted. I edited to address this issue. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." Edited on Mar 25, 2018, 01:17pm (Loki: added link to poll)

03-25-18  08:54am - 2479 days #16
Loki (0)
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Originally Posted by rearadmiral:


I mostly agree with the thinking to limit discussions of controversial topics but most of my agreement with that is just that it helps keep the forum focused on porn.


I have no problem with PU restricting the forums to discussions of porn. It is the discretion of PU to do so. If they want to make that move, PU will have to update their user agreement, post the changes, and be responsible for enforcement. I do hope that enforcement would be done equitably where ANY non-porn discussion thread be eliminated, be they political, sociological, technological, or entertainment related. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-23-18  05:55pm - 2481 days #11
Loki (0)
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Registered: Jun 13, '07
Location: California
I feel it is a valuable exercise to discuss what kind of community we want here. Political discussions on the forums are obviously disturbing to some members and may make PU less welcoming to a casual visitor or new member.

But there have been hundreds of threads that have nothing to do with porn in the forums. Why does politics (or gay rights, racism, or religion--thanks biker)cause such a reaction?

If we're going to ban things from discussion because they are uncomfortable to people, aren't we really narrowing the content for discussion to the point that any individual can ban something? What if it extends beyond politics? Where does it end? "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-23-18  05:29pm - 2481 days #9
Loki (0)
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Location: California
Jook, I appreciate the insight into your opinion. But different people enjoy different things. I too worry about the appeal of the site to newcomers if this site becomes too political.

I don't use Facebook or social media at all. That's not an option for people like me who rebel against corporate invasions of privacy. Telling me that Facebook would be a better place for discussing politics, though offered with the best intentions, comes across that people with differing points of view shouldn't express them here. What's the point of a forum if people cannot respectfully express themselves? "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." Edited on Mar 23, 2018, 05:40pm

03-23-18  01:03pm - 2481 days #297
Loki (0)
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Location: California
Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


So what are the legal responsibilities:
Do you believe the airline was acting in a fair and businesslike manner, by allowing the man to exchange his tickets without further charges?
Or should the airline have offered a faster refund on his old tickets, since the man was in desperate need of cash?

Or is this just one of those situations where a man gets stuck in a crack, and it's no one's fault?


Law isn't about doing what's right. It's about resolving edge cases where individual or societal interests have competing priorities.

It's kind of mixed in this case, but I tend to side with the airline. Airline policies are clearly listed (with links to them) on their websites. If they had allowed the underage infant to board, and some mishap occurred, the father could then sue because the airline wasn't doing due diligence to adhere to their policies.

Refunds usually take a few days to process. That too is spelled out on airline websites.

I feel this is really one of those cases where the dad fell through the cracks, and thankfully there was a good Samaritan to help him in his hour of need.


(I have experience with the ticket refund thing. I bought refundable airline tickets twice last year, and both times had to seek a refund for unused tickets. Both times my account was credited, but it took about a week. I had researched all the airlines that flew that route and read all their policies before buying.) "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-23-18  12:55pm - 2481 days #8
Loki (0)
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Registered: Jun 13, '07
Location: California
Originally Posted by Amanda:


That was unrelated, actually. Our scheduled bank had run out.... that was my fault.

But I have filled it up!


And here I submitted a lame poll question (the first I could think of) because I had thought you had run out.

Thanks for filling up the polls. I really enjoy them. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-23-18  12:53pm - 2481 days #7
Loki (0)
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Was going to comment about the eight turning into the cool icon, but when I hovered over the cool icon, it's keyboard shortcut is a numeral eight followed by closed parenthesis. Mystery solved. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-23-18  12:44pm - 2481 days #5
Loki (0)
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Location: California
Amanda, I noticed on logging in the last few days that the Poll wasn't updating correctly. Until today (the 23rd), I had been shown the same poll (Mar 3, 201 "Do broken links..." every time I logged in. At first I thought the polls were suspended due to lack of questions to ask, but then today it updated and all the intervening polls were in the previous polls section.

Was this a related issue, or something unrelated?

Loki "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-23-18  12:34pm - 2481 days #7
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I enjoy the forums much more now that there is something to intellectually stimulate me (the political threads). For years I wouldn't post to the forums because I am on a limited budget for porn, can't join a lot of sites, and basically couldn't contribute to this community.

I too have concerns that political threads can get out of hand, or that it will make the overall PU experience worse. But there are lots of threads on the forums that don't involve politics (the vast majority in fact). I don't read threads I have no interest in, and read many and don't comment because there is little I can add. Why is it that because there are a few threads that are about politics that changes must be made? What is wrong with simply choosing to not read content that bothers you? Why should political discussion be relegated to another section like some second-class citizen?

I understand that to many politics is (or has become) a very touchy topic. It is my hope that through civil discussion that people can share differing opinions and PU can be an example of moderation in an otherwise hostile and toxic political environment. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-22-18  07:44pm - 2482 days #294
Loki (0)
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Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


I am surprised that American Airlines did not offer to pay the rental fee for any golf clubs she might have rented. Since they were responsible for her missing clubs.


Are you kidding? "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-22-18  03:54pm - 2482 days #292
Loki (0)
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Nice that Ms Kim got her golf clubs back. Those three golfers did her a good turn.

It's nice to see some good news, even if it is about a game about hitting a ball into a gopher hole with a bent stick. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-22-18  08:15am - 2482 days #4
Loki (0)
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I used to believe that most police shooting occurred because people didn't follow the orders of the police (like "drop your weapon" or "on the ground NOW!") and that if they did as they were told there wouldn't have been a problem.

Yeah, right. I was so naive.

Even when people do EXACTLY as they're supposed to, like the black motorist who told the police officer he had a legal firearm in the car and was reaching for his registration, they still get shot and killed.

Police shoot people without warning. Witness the kid who was playing with a toy gun who was shot and killed in 12 seconds. The number of people who are killed who were never given any chance to comply is staggering. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-21-18  07:51pm - 2483 days #2
Loki (0)
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In the entirety of 2017, Finnish police fired six bullets. For the entirety of the country. They didn't kill anyone.

In the United States, in the first 77 days of 2018, police killed 238 people.

Finland is a much smaller, more homogeneous society, so comparisons are difficult. But one must ask, "Why do so many encounters with the police (especially for people of color and the mentally ill) end with fatal shootings?" "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-21-18  05:45pm - 2483 days #287
Loki (0)
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Some people have lambasted Mike Pence for his rule about not being alone in the company of a woman other than his wife. I don't understand why. At least he's not going to be subject to accusations of sexual harassment without some corroboration. Pence may not do it for those reasons (I believe he's mentioned it comes from religious convictions), but it is a good defense against unfounded accusations of sexual impropriety. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-21-18  03:56pm - 2483 days #3
Loki (0)
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Location: California
USA #1! USA #1!

Another sad statistic where our country leads the world.

At least we still have access to porn. Thank God. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-21-18  03:52pm - 2483 days #285
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I had not thought it SOP for posts to be deleted when a user quits. Thanks for the confirmation biker.

Carson may need a new dining set after all. His wife will probably hurl the old one at him for throwing her under the bus. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-21-18  03:49pm - 2483 days #284
Loki (0)
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Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


A US President has the power to pardon.
Why can't Trump pardon himself, if he is found guilty of any crimes?


A US President has the power to pardon any crime except impeachment. Nixon was on the verge of impeachment when he resigned. Ford had the right to pardon him for any crimes he may have committed in office.

The pardon powers have not really been tested much before the US Supreme Court. It is generally thought that the president cannot pardon himself, though that has not been tested. Furthermore, accepting a pardon is considered as an admission of guilt in the crime. People who maintain their innocence despite conviction have refused pardons to avoid this facet of the process. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-21-18  08:16am - 2483 days #278
Loki (0)
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Every forum post by Onyx has been edited out. Is that standard practice when a member disables their account?

There's a lot of stuff he contributed to sections on computing and VR headsets that is now lost forever.

"A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-21-18  07:59am - 2483 days #276
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I woke up this morning and checked PU to see what the latest was on the Forums, and found to my surprise and dismay that Onyx's account was disabled.

I took umbrage at the tone of some of his last messages. I regret that. I understand that not everyone spends a lot of time composing their forum posts, and sometimes things come out not as they intended.

I feel responsible for Onyx disabling his account. That was not my intent, as I found him an excellent authority on VR porn and computing issues, and spiritedly willing to engage me on political issues despite our differences. I used my first Trust vote to support him.

I feel saddened by his departure and that we have lost a valued member of our community, and that it is largely my doing. I've been a PU member since 2007, and would be very saddened to leave, but feel that I too should resign my membership. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-20-18  07:23pm - 2484 days #272
Loki (0)
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I have always gone with the dictate that PU is a community of like-minded collectors of porn, able to civilly share their opinions. To do that a certain level of politeness and civility must be shown, even to people one disagrees with. It's not kindness, it's civility. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-20-18  10:44am - 2484 days #265
Loki (0)
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Onyx, I've taken great effort to be polite and civil with you while discussing issues. I've not attacked or belittled your opinions. I've assumed you hold different views, and have a reasonable basis for them. I've been repaid in kind with condescension and dismissal. Thanks. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-20-18  10:16am - 2484 days #263
Loki (0)
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I didn't know only programmers could understand digital privacy and surveillance.

Furthermore, here is the quote you're referring to: "Privacy, as I am told by all my techies friends, is an outdated concept"

Nowhere do I express inability to discern the issue. They just think my notion of valuing privacy is outdated. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-20-18  12:13am - 2485 days #259
Loki (0)
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Location: California
Originally Posted by Onyx:


I think if you truly understood...


How condescending of you. I don't agree with you, so I must not fully understand the issue. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-19-18  09:27pm - 2485 days Original Post - #1
Loki (0)
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A message on PJ Girls' website said they won't accept any memberships from Russia due to widespread problems with Russian hacking. And they're just a porn site. Russia seems to be hacking everyone and everything nowadays.

Here's the message:

Russia

We have had very bad experiences with Russia in the past. Hackers, pirates, anonymous networks, Denial of Service attacks, password crackers and other attempts to destroy our site - 95% of them come from Russia. A couple months ago I persuaded my boss to enable payments from Russia and of course, it didn't last long and a customer from Russia whom I even gave extensive customer support to help him with his payment issues has stolen our videos and published them on Russian torrents and in porn forums (luckily we managed to identify and stop the thief in time so the damage wasn't that bad and only a few dozens of videos have leaked). So I apologize to you honest guys from Russia but thanks to this thief Dmitry Shirokikh from Severodvinsk (venturina5@gmail.com) we will NOT accept any more Russian customers in the future, there will be no exceptions. Our patience is over and we have to protect our exclusive content. Our videos are available only to our valued customers, not to teenage Russian idiots who only steal copyrighted content without actually creating something themselves.


The thing to me that stands out is that they won't take ANY Russian customers anymore--no exceptions. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-19-18  09:03pm - 2485 days #256
Loki (0)
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Posts: 395
Registered: Jun 13, '07
Location: California
Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


How many PU members read Trump's tweets?


I don't use social media for privacy reasons.

But Trump tweets like a 5 year old with verbal diarrhea. You can't avoid them. They are part and parcel of just about every news story now. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-19-18  08:58pm - 2485 days #254
Loki (0)
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I've predicted for months that the major parties will run with platforms that advocate greater regulation over tech and social media companies. They've gone largely unregulated due to their lobbying.

The Economist, in a recent article about health care costs, ranked the tech industry the highest rent seeking industry, costing consumers an extra $250 a year in unnecessary costs. Second place went to the health care industry at about $150 a year. Airlines (for comparison) extracted a relatively low $50 a year. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-19-18  07:52pm - 2485 days #250
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I am well aware of what Snowden revealed. It was no surprise. Privacy, as I am told by all my techies friends, is an outdated concept. This disgusts me.

Cutting entitlements sounds better than it would be in practice. Are you ready to have masses of starving homeless? Would you then increase law enforcement to deal with them? You'd save tax money on entitlements, but law enforcement and corrections spending would skyrocket. We already provide most mental health care in jails and prisons. It costs more to imprison people than to just provide the health care and housing in the private sector.

The federal government is a better way to provide relief than private charity. One reason is that government can do it with better economy of scale. Another is that charities can discriminate. Another is that with government oversight, people with similar needs won't be accepted for aid in some places and denied in others. It's better that we tax everyone to provide assistance than rely on private donations, which would cause different funding in different locales. The benefits are measly now. I shudder to think what happens when the poor, disabled, and elderly are left to the whims of the private sector. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." Edited on Mar 19, 2018, 08:01pm

03-19-18  05:28pm - 2485 days #248
Loki (0)
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Location: California
Onyx, you are right about me being mostly concerned about my privacy being protected from companies. The government has regulations that limit it's gathering information, and if those are broken, you have redress to the courts. No such limitations or redress is available against corporations.

Cutting entitlements would be deleterious to the health and well-being of retirees and the poor. There is little political will to do it, mostly because that would drastically increase poverty, hunger, and homelessness and impair public health. Reforms to entitlements must be made, but I feel the answer lies in increasing government revenues to match expenditures. The problem is that Congress (both parties) has a penchant for spending any new revenues on new programs instead of shoring up the government's financial situation.

I personally trust the FBI, CIA, and DOJ as little (very little) as I ever did. I don't buy the Trump line about them being "Deep State" enemies. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-18-18  09:05pm - 2486 days #246
Loki (0)
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Location: California
Originally Posted by Onyx:


What would you like to see the US look like in 5 years?


I'd like to see a privacy amendment added to the US Constitution. I'd like to see a market for data, whereby the individual owns their data and companies bargain for it.

I'd like to see something done about the US debt crisis. Entitlement spending is projected to grow rapidly and we need to have a serious national discussion about the budget. We need Congress to stop mandating programs but not fully funding them with sufficient revenues. Eventually we're going to hit a brick wall where we need massive cuts to programs and to raise taxes dramatically to prevent economic disaster. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-18-18  08:47pm - 2486 days #245
Loki (0)
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Originally Posted by Onyx:


I don't think so. There's a 10 hour news cycle and no one really cares.


Whether or not the Stormy Daniels case is ignored by the populace is irrelevant. Justice works slowly, but usually inexorably. It's going to court, so it will be an issue that will continue to pop up in the news, good or ill.

It's likely Onyx is right. Trump's base won't care, and his opponents will rejoice over his predicament, but in the end it won't help solve the problems of the country. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-18-18  08:29pm - 2486 days #243
Loki (0)
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Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


So if Trump is forced into court, which should be legal...


The Supreme Court has ruled (Clinton v Jones, 1997) that a sitting president has no immunity to civil litigation regarding acts that occurred before taking office or that are unrelated to the official duties of the presidency.

It is likely Daniels' lawyers would try to call Trump to testify, but it depends largely on whether the suit is heard in Federal or CA State Court. Federal Courts have been very strict in enforcing arbitration clauses, while state courts have generally been more lenient about allowing civil suits. Also the judge might rule in a motion that Trump, not technically a party to the arbitration agreement, would not have to testify. But being president will not help Trump in this case. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-18-18  11:29am - 2486 days #10
Loki (0)
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Originally Posted by Onyx:


When you are a carpenter sometimes you build a mansion and sometimes you build an outhouse. The job is the job.


Does that apply to journalists writing stories too? LOL "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-18-18  11:28am - 2486 days #239
Loki (0)
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Haspel will face the Senate Intelligence Committee for questioning about her activities in the CIA, as part of her overall confirmation by the Senate.

The destruction of the tapes of Abu Zubaydah's torture will likely come up. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-18-18  09:45am - 2486 days #236
Loki (0)
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Bottom line: don't be too quick to believe what you read. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-18-18  08:47am - 2486 days #234
Loki (0)
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Onyx, this isn't the first time you've expressed disdain for journalism. I don't expect that we see eye-to-eye on the need for a free press to protect us from government tyranny or malfeasance.

I also don't believe everything I read or hear is going to be the truth. That skepticism keeps me from rushing to judgment. Note I did not attack Haspel's qualifications to be CIA director or endorse that she had overseen torture. I actually took care to show that the story was false. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." Edited on Mar 18, 2018, 09:10am (Loki: added second paragraph)

03-18-18  07:55am - 2486 days #232
Loki (0)
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Onyx, reporters sometimes make mistakes. Responsible journalistic operations admit them and issue retractions. That's always been the case. There are corrections of stories every day in the newspapers. It's SOP.

There is a problem. Doing the right thing as journalists try to do by issuing retractions and corrections is not keeping up with the speed at which people consume and disseminate news. I hardly see how that's the fault of journalism. It's more a judgement on the impatience of people who expect 100% perfection from everything.

ProPublica went to great care to explain why they reported what they did, and to set the record straight. They explain what happened in the article I posted a link to. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-17-18  11:03pm - 2487 days #6
Loki (0)
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True, Nicolas Cage has two Oscar nominations and one win.

But he also has eight nominations for Golden Raspberry Awards, and two nominations and a win for Stinkers Bad Movie Awards.

His early career was fair, but he's really come to embrace his bad acting, calling it "Nouveau Shamanic," and says he'll write a book about it. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-17-18  10:34pm - 2487 days #230
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I somehow doubt Donald Trump is interested in dumping Melania for Gina Haspel. After all, Haspel was a career CIA officer, not the model or porn star that seems his type.

Maybe President Trump heard "waterboarding" and thought "watersports" (peeing), and decided Haspel was the woman of his dreams? "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." Edited on Mar 17, 2018, 10:42pm (Loki: added second paragraph)

03-17-18  10:23pm - 2487 days #229
Loki (0)
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ProPublica, who broke the story about Gina Haspel supposedly running the CIA's enhanced interrogation center in Thailand, has issued a correction.

https://www.propublica.org/article/cia-c...tors-role-in-torture

While she was head of CIA's station in Thailand, it was AFTER the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah occurred. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-17-18  05:27am - 2488 days #13
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The news article from Fox is poorly written. It doesn't fully explain all the relevant details, so we're kind of left to wonder why the student was suspended. It doesn't mention the offense the student committed, just that he didn't walk out or go to the designated non-walk out area. In my school days, the VP of Guidance sure as hell TOLD you and your parents what the offense was that led to the suspension.

The article is sensationalist. It makes you think an injustice was done to the student, but doesn't give all the pertinent details for the school's actions.

It truly looks to me like the student defied a school administrator's order to leave the classroom (he'd met with administration the day before), the teacher didn't follow the policy (locked the student in the otherwise empty classroom), and the student got suspended for it. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-17-18  05:26am - 2488 days #12
Loki (0)
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The news article from Fox is poorly written. It doesn't fully explain all the relevant details, so we're kind of left to wonder why the student was suspended. It doesn't mention the offense the student committed, just that he didn't walk out or go to the designated non-walk out area. In my school days, the VP of Guidance sure as hell TOLD you and your parents what the offense was that led to the suspension.

The article is sensationalist. It makes you think an injustice was done to the student, but doesn't give all the pertinent details for the school's actions.

It truly looks to me like the student defied a school administrator's order to leave the classroom (he'd met with administration the day before), the teacher didn't follow the policy (locked the student in the otherwise empty classroom), and the student got suspended for it. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-17-18  05:14am - 2488 days #11
Loki (0)
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Location: California
I went to public schools in Silicon Valley in the late 1980s. We had five administrators at my high school. A principal, and four vice principles: One handled student activities, one did guidance/discipline, one did academic guidance, and I forget what the other did.

We too went from room to room between periods. If a teacher had to leave their classroom during those times, say to use the bathroom, the door was locked. Students were never allowed unsupervised in a classroom. If a teacher for any reason had to leave a classroom, they called the office and an administrator came to relieve them.

There may have been some special rules at my high school. A lot of the honor students (I took honors/AP classes) were implicated in a cheating ring, so leaving the classroom with an unsupervised student and test materials inside was strictly verboten.

BTW, the cheating students (we all knew who they were) never got any punishment. They all went on to university, many of them prestigious ones. One ended up at the US Military Academy at West Point. A few attended Stanford. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." Edited on Mar 17, 2018, 05:17am

03-16-18  08:43pm - 2488 days #9
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lk2fireone, I had a lot of time making up tests in high school at lunch times due to health-related absences. There was always a teacher present. I told one that she could go get lunch while I took the test. She told me flat-out that that was not allowed. Students were not allowed in classrooms without supervision. If the teacher for some reason had to leave the classroom, all the students went with them, or they brought in an administrator to stay with the students. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-16-18  07:47pm - 2488 days #7
Loki (0)
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Registered: Jun 13, '07
Location: California
The kid in the story didn't just remain in the classroom, he remained in the classroom when there was no teacher and the door was locked. Had I done that in my high school (stayed in a classroom without adult supervision) I would have been suspended too. There are legal liability issues.

I respect Jacob Shoemaker's desire to remain politically neutral, but he was told his options for the day: attend the walkout, or go to a common area for the duration. Both were school-sanctioned, and he was not given the option to stay in an empty classroom. Part of schooling is obeying the rules laid out by the administration.

I doubt that the Shoemakers have a legal case against the school. It is unfortunate that his principled stand against being political at school resulted in his suspension, but it probably was legal.

It is a sad day that a student NOT skipping class will be given a suspension. And that he and his family have received death threats. Kind of makes you wonder what kind of society we live in where disagreeing with someone's actions or beliefs can be seen as a justification for threatening that person's life. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."

03-15-18  06:41pm - 2489 days #217
Loki (0)
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Posts: 395
Registered: Jun 13, '07
Location: California
Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


Great analysis.
At least I can understand it.
And believe it.
I kept telling myself, why would people vote for him?
Unless they were blind.
But now I can accept that he won the election, and that it was not a miracle beyond comprehension.

Sincerely, thank you.


A lot of Democrats and independents can't believe anyone would vote for Trump. They really haven't learned the lessons from the election. Look at the California Democratic Party Convention. They failed to endorse candidates for several competitive races which may mean no Democratic candidate will advance to the general election in vulnerable Republican districts (California has a top-two or "jungle" primary where the two highest finishing candidates in the primaries, regardless of party, advance to the general election), and didn't endorse five-term Senator Dianne Feinstein because she is "too moderate."

People want politicians to deliver on the economy and security. Trump pounded those issues. Clinton didn't.

Trump's election may invigorate progressives in the short term, but until they consistently show up for every election (not just presidential elections) it won't win progressives anything. Democrats have lost thousands of legislative seats at the state level and dozens of Congressional races because progressives don't vote regularly. "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." Edited on Mar 15, 2018, 06:58pm

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