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01-01-09  04:48am - 5834 days #7
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Yep, I have always hated close ups. In fact I don't even particularly like oral scenes, and they usually get the fast forward treatment. I like to see the whole model. I think there are possibly less close ups than there used to be. I think one of the reasons there were so many 20 years ago was because a lot of the models had stand ins.

There always seem to be directors who love close ups and oral. Once you get a director like that the whole movie is the same, and generally it gets fast forwarded the whole way through, because for me they are such a waste of time.

12-31-08  03:47pm - 5835 days #10
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It would have been one I was in. Someone I once knew said he knew a guy who produced porn and did I want to be in one? Thankfully I was completely realistic and said "no." I realise it is a fantasy of a lot of people to be in one. But even if the offer was serious, I was realistic enough to know just how few men can really perform when under that type of pressure. I take my hat off to those that can.

12-31-08  11:59am - 5835 days #10
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I don't know which avatar I like the best. It has to be either Monahan's penguin or Toadsith's Prisoner.

Since the thread has been resurrected and I wasn't here when it was started I would like to add a few things. I could drone on forever, but I am always doing that, so I will try to keep it reasonably short.

First thing is I agree with most of the things said by both Monahan and Exotics. The truth is rarely one whole. It is nearly always a combination of ideas and sides of an argument from all angles. If you look at the posts from both of these people they contain IMO an awful lot of the truth on the subject.

With sociology, psychology, and psychiatry, when you start to look into them, you don't get the whole truth, but you do get some of the truth that can lead you on to discovering things about yourself. You can then use this to understand other people better. I really believe you have to understand yourself before you can understand other people.

There are always gaps and flaws in theoretical disciplines. One of my favourite stories is about the contempt a lot of physical doctors have for mind doctors. There was this guy who kept trying to kill himself. No one really knew why. Successful. Lovely wife. Lovely kids. Mind doctor spent hours talking to him, trying to understand him. Finally the session was over. Out comes the mind doctor. Everyone was waiting with baited breath. "Well?" The reply was - "quite frankly I really don't know." Much to everyone's laughter and derision. Sociology, psychology and psychiatry obviously have their limits.

I think Monahan is right about the generalisation. Knowing how complicated my mind is, and knowing how fu**ed up I am, I realise that it is highly likely everyone is the same. Everyone has complicated thought processes.

With the porn actresses thing, I think there are so many reasons out there that it is hard to generalise. Everyone's situation and circumstances which lead up to them being porn actresses are so different that there must be combinations of thousands of conflicting thoughts and feelings. Naturally money is a big leading factor, but there are tons of different reasons for how you eventually choose to earn that money.

There is a thing that I remember from a few years back. Originally it was thought that people only had a few characterisics and conflicting emotions which made up one personality, or state of mind at the time. Then they discovered there were literally thousands, all pulling in different directions. Exotics may well be aware of this report. It illustrates how complicated the human mind is. Being trained and qualified I am sure he would benefit and understand far more from this report, than a layman like myself would. Even so I was fascinated, and in many respects not surprised. I think we are all guided and governed by a ton of conflicting emotions, moods, and personality traits, as well as outside influences.

Reading this back, I found it really was long and dreary so I edited it. It still is, but at least it's shorter. Edited on Dec 31, 2008, 03:41pm

12-31-08  11:02am - 5835 days #26
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The problem I have here, is that part of the crime he was sentenced for, was having illustrations and swapping emails. In other words it was not wholly for abuse of real children, but partly for illustrations and words. This I find very disturbing. That is why I noted my post was not about whether he was an upstanding citizen or not. It was more about the implications of being found guilty for words or drawn pictures. That is why I put in the quote that I did from one of the judges.

This is also why I get very worried when the media drums up a bandwagon of horror along the lines of "let's get the evil paedophiles." Every time you see something like this there are usually other implications and ulterior motives involved. This judgement will be used to prosecute people for words and illustrations that do not feature paedophilia at all. It will be used in the end to prosecute whoever the powers that be wish, once the benchmark is down for being able to prosecute for words and illustrations. You can bet your bottom dollar that a lot of the stuff online and what is linked to from here, will be considered illegal shortly. This affects TBP, PU and everyone else. What we like is considered just as disgusting as paedophilia. A lot of people regard us as bad as paedophiles because we like porn. They consider us as abusers because we like porn. Before we start getting too morally righteous about things we have to look at the implications of this judgement.

As always I look at how paedophilia, terrorism, rape, civil unrest, and murder is being used as an excuse to clamp down on civil freedom. This is already, and will be continually used as an excuse to control the internet. They just need to drum up some support for the really extreme stuff to get laws passed which will eventually be used to control the rest of us. This is not pure chance or coincidence. It is by design and has always been used.

The way rich and powerful corporations act as a cartel is an example of how they, through government, can control what we consume, and at what price. The internet has undermined that, and they want control back, so once again they can control what we consume, and at a price that is more suitable to them.

Having control of the internet also means fewer negative comments. There will of course always be negative comments, but they will be in the context of a controlled internet, similar to the way they appear in the context of a controlled media as they are at the moment. Negative comments are very important to the powers that control. They need those in order to point to them, so they can tell everyone what wonderful freedom of speech and freedoms we all have, in this wonderful and free society. But in a controlled media for every negative comment, there are a hundred saying "conform" and "behave" and "protest is OF COURSE okay in a civilised society, within certain bounds." The suggestion is always that it is okay to protest, but don't break the law. it's there to protect you from paedophiles and terrorists. No, just protest within the allowances of the law. Rarely do you see the suggestion that it's okay to break the law because it does not represent the people, or it's okay to break the law, because those that make it and those that uphold it are so morally corrupt and evil. Or the suggestion that it is their law, created for the benefit of the ruling minority, not ours, so it's okay to break it. Occasionally you may hear this, but this time it is surrounded by a thousand representations telling you that the law is really okay and you can change things for the better eventually, it just takes time and patience etc.

The internet is the most free form of expression that we have probably ever had. They are now working out how to curtail that using terrorism, paedophilia, and sexual torture as an excuse. Before we condone any action, we need to look at the implications. That is why this decision is horrific. They will be quick to react in the way some of you may react - "he's a paedophile, burn him." It's isn't about that, it is about why the guilty verdict based partly on illustrations and on text is so worrying. Edited on Dec 31, 2008, 11:15am

12-30-08  02:35pm - 5836 days #23
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Here we go again folks. I just took a look at a comment fom Doug62 concerning sites called Hentai Key and Adult Empire. It seems some guy has been sentenced to 20 years for depicting children being forced to have sex with men. Now here's the important bit - "it is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists."

From this we can deduce that anything now illustrated can mean a prison sentence, and therefore any fiction can result in a prison sentence. He was also convicted for sending and receiving emails surrounding sexual molestation of children. He was also convicted for photos of real children, but the important point is not whether he is an upstanding citizen or not. Part of the conviction came from being found guilty of illustrations of children and emails about children.

Taking this to a logical conclusion will send shock waves around the Bible Belt surely. For instance, what about that nutter in the Bible who wants to sacrifice his kid to god? A real upstanding citizen that one. Whether he really existed or not or whether the Bible is total fabrication about as realistic as "Noddy In Toyland" is beside the point. It doesn't matter whether it happened or not. A book where someone is described as about to burn his own kid is available in book stores now. You bring the rope I'll bring the screaming mob.

Of course we all know the implications of this. I don't know why they just don't pass a law with the very honest guidelines as follows - "if we don't like you, or don't like what you stand for, or what you think, or what you read, or what you believe, we can find you guilty of something." Seems a bit more honest than the law they have at the moment, anyway. Edited on Dec 30, 2008, 03:17pm

12-26-08  01:44pm - 5840 days #10
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When it said "account disabled," I thought it meant he was banned, but it's nice to know he wasn't.

12-26-08  10:04am - 5840 days #47
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This is brilliant! It goes back to what I have been saying about causing as much trouble as you possibly can to those who try to mislead you, or rip you off. Time is money. Cause so much fuss, that it costs other people money, and eventually something will be done. Don't cause trouble and you will be continually ripped off.

12-26-08  09:59am - 5840 days #7
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Personally I trust organised crime more than I do any government. This isn't because I support organised crime, it's merely because I believe the biggest threat to any people's freedom and safety, comes not from outside but from its own government. So basically I do regard organised crime as a threat, but not as big a threat as organised government, which IMO, is far worse.

12-26-08  09:06am - 5840 days #70
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Toadsith and Denner make some excellent comments about this organisation, so be sure to check them out if you are thinking of signing up.

12-26-08  08:58am - 5840 days #3
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This is interesting. Are the worst sites outside US jurisdiction? I always thought a lot of the US sites were only semi legal or illegal anyway, given the guidelines that the US government seems to go by. How many remain legal could also be subject to change in the coming year. I wonder what the breakdown would be along geographical lines of good/indifferent/bad customer service and quality of site.

12-26-08  06:04am - 5840 days #5
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Originally Posted by jd1961:


They control newspapers, libraries,schools, radio, television, satellites---why would anyone be surprised that they would control the internet?

Those prohibited sites listed have been the ongoing excuse to do this.


That's exactly what I have been saying. They will find a way to control things, as they always have. All we can do is make it as difficult as possible for them.

12-25-08  12:45am - 5841 days #4
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Merry Christmas to everyone.

12-24-08  12:55pm - 5842 days #13
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Congratulations! You win a lifetime membership for you, and your soul, to squirreldisgustingporn.com and squirreldisgustinginsurances.com. Our guarantee is that should you be unable to pay, our crack security team of security penguins (securitypenguins.com - the most violent security company on the face of the planet)will turn up on your doorstep and leave you enough use of your legs to crawl to your wallet and pay up immediately.

12-24-08  09:21am - 5842 days #10
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Hear ye hear ye hear ye. Come to squirreldisgustingporn.com. We offer 500,000 hours of amazing hardcore and softcore over 314 different sites covering every conceivable perversion ever thought of (some even bordering on illegal - but definitely not crossing the line of course) An absolute bargain for $1.99 (That's 500 euros if you're in Europe) A big bonus is you only end up paying $2452 (even if you remember to uncheck all the cross checked boxes). Trust us - we're a great site.

If you need some legal help in getting out of your lifetime subscription to squirreldisgustingporn.com and squirreldisgustinginsurances.com (which you automatically sign up to) I would highly recommend Cybertoad. He even tried to represent himself as my advocate. I was highly disappointed in him, as he tried to automatically cross check me buying his soul for an enormous amount when I signed him up to "the firm." This is the sort of dishonesty that would even turn me red, if I weren't already. Everyone knows lawyers don't have souls, so we had to sack him.

Yours sincerely Satan (Lord of Darkness, Evil Incarnate etc etc aka TheSquirrel)

Anyway have a Merry Christmas. Edited on Dec 24, 2008, 09:40am

12-24-08  06:21am - 5842 days #45
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No no you got me wrong. It isn't my law, I hate the law, mainly because it does not represent the people. It represents the minority who are in power. My view is if you don't like the law then break it - just don't get caught.

I think you must have trained well, because you really DO talk like a lot of the people who have represented me in the past.

I agree with a lot of the points that you make. It's just one of my points is, we shouldn't always know so much about the law, or the consquences, or fear so much, that it stops us from acting morally (depending on what our morals are). Everyone has their own law and their own morals. I believe just as much in acting on those.

American law really has got ridiculous. It is time people stood up and put a stop to what is going on in America. While there is fear about the law, or offending someone every time they say something even mildly critical, or individual and incisive, America will continue to produce the garbage it does. As I pointed out earlier, this definitely does not do the American people justice. Unfortunately, as always, you cannot change things without media support. Since very rich people own the media, I am sure it suits them to have a situation where criticism is more than a little stifled

I can also understand why TBP has to be very cautious. they are in business and want to make money. This is what holds most people back from having principles, so I don't blame them one bit. Do I trust them? No of course not, but they seem about the best there is at the moment, although things may change. Edited on Dec 24, 2008, 07:59am

12-23-08  07:17pm - 5843 days #4
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Sex, porn, sport, and alcohol are are always going to survive, even in tough times. Lets hope as things get tighter the customers become more selective and choose the quality sites, as they seek to cut back on spending.

12-23-08  12:19pm - 5843 days #43
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Originally Posted by mbaya:


Excuse me for staying too long on the soapbox.


It needs someone to be on the soapbox. Toad goes into the law and makes some good points but he's a lawyer at heart, not a human being. Now here's my law. We shouldn't be careful about them or afraid of them, they should be afraid of us.

My law - if you rip me off or try to screw me in any way I'm coming for you, you fu**er. This is how we should be thinking as consumers. It doesn't matter what we are consuming or who we are dealing with. My law is, if someone does mess around with me I cause them as much aggravation, pain, time, and cost as possible. If there's no way of getting my money back or if I've been badly treated, by god I'm going to spend as much time and money to cost them as much time and money as I possibly can.

TBP is an irrelevance here. They may be gone in 6 months or 12 months or here forever. It doesn't matter. They have already stated their position anyway, and customers here have to respect that. What does matter is that somewhere there will always be a place for complaints and a soapbox where you can speak out, and it is so important to do this. They will never be able to stifle free speech entirely. By being a real pain you can have the satisfaction of really getting back at someone who did you wrong. As I think, Monahan pointed out, there are a lot of sites out there who are dealing fairly with people, and the sort of dodgy crap some of them try to pull just wont cut it nowadays. There will always be rip off artists. But our job as consumers is to make it HELL for those sort of people.

Ring them, write to them, email them, complain to credit card companies, get a lawyer, post wherever you can what they are doing. I'm talking anything here, not just porn sites or the internet. Just cause as much trouble as you can to those who try to rip you off. I don't care what the law says on whether they intended to rip me off or not, if I consider they did. That doesn't count in my law. F**k with me and I f**k with you. Edited on Dec 23, 2008, 03:02pm

12-23-08  12:02pm - 5843 days #42
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Originally Posted by Cybertoad:


Hi everyone,
Going to play the devils advocate here


No you're not, you're fired.

12-22-08  02:01pm - 5844 days #29
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I do understand where you are coming from. I appreciate that you agree to disagree. I also think you make valid points.

12-22-08  01:42pm - 5844 days #27
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Originally Posted by Khan:


If I might ask ...

What would be the real (perceived) value of a compiled list? As it is, TBP/PU provides caveats on a site's listing when we're aware of issues our users see as bad. i.e. pre-checked join boxes, limited trials, etc. If a user checks the listing (TBP & PU) before joining, they will be aware of any shortcomings that have been brought to light.

So, other than to satisfy some Users' curiosity, what is the extra value in having a list


You obviously didn't read my post. That is most unlike you. I have already answered this in fact, in two posts. It is the bits where I said that a ready to hand list means quick and easy access for novices and newbies so they don't get ripped off...don't get burned so end up downloading for free...experts know all the stuff already, newbies don't...etc.

It would be a special place where people can be sure of finding instant access to information. Checking the dodgy sites in one place, is far more useful because even some of the relatively experienced hands here don't know all the dodgy ones. I have already gone into the implications and benefits of this for everyone.

...and yes I am sounding pompous. Edited on Dec 22, 2008, 01:46pm

12-22-08  01:34pm - 5844 days #26
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Well in a way I don't blame TBP for not wanting to get involved. Most people don't want to get involved, where money is the bottom line.

My avatar should be grey but is permanently red because I am permanently ANGRY.

It is very much an individual's choice whether to get involved with lawyers/solicitors. I have very good and very expensive ones (along with other professional people), in order to stop people fu**ing with me. I am lucky enough to be able to afford their services. Some can't and get pushed around. It's generally the fear itself that stops people standing up. Many times a solicitor has told me "well we can threaten them, but it is just a threat, it's a very grey area. So all we can hope is it does the trick." With poor people this quite often works because they can't afford and don't want to afford good professional advice.

Toad has pointed out these grey areas. He does talk like a solicitor/lawyer. I have had one or two tell me "well we don't want to do this," or "you shouldn't do that." I have got rid of them. I hire them to do what I want them to do. Yes, they can give me advice but I pay them to do what I want them to do, not what they want me to do. Yes, they do give me advice for my own good. I understand that. I have had some pleading with me to give up a battle because it might cost me thousands. I've gone ahead anyway and been delighted if it cost me thousands as long as it cost my opponents more.

Toad you do talk like a fu**ing lawyer. But you also come over as a nice chap, as do a lot of people I deal with. Because you know the law you are aware of the grey areas, and in many senses are more afraid of these than normal humans. Just like a doctor is aware of the hundred things that pain in his chest or arm can be. It's the fear of these grey areas that worries me about America, even more than Europe. It stops people doing things. The result is bland, anodyne, tasteless, boring, average, crap produced by bland, anodyne, tasteless, boring, average crappy people. It means the talented rarely seem to get a look in. It means truly objective, incisive criticism is far too rarely produced. It means lots of other things but you get my drift. I do like Americans. I just hate the boring bland shit that comes from America. It's a shame the sort of shit (product, politicians, and media) that represents America. I have American friends and it does not do them justice.

I am probably an angry, arrogant, bastard, but I do realise that everyone chooses their own way of doing things. It doesn't surprise me that TBP would choose that easy path. Most people do. I can't honestly say that my way is any better or makes me any happier. It is just my mentality. It is my path. When Jimmy Connors played Wimbledon nearly 30 years ago, a commentator chose him to win becaue "he is the only competitor who would cut someone's throat to win." I would more than happily literally do that without a moments regret...if I could get away with it. No remorse, no regret. I think my representatives now know my mentality and work accordingly. But most people just want an easy life.

12-22-08  11:37am - 5844 days #15
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I have had many a fight with people over the years in and out of the courts so I know what cybertoad is saying. I agree it is very mch a case of how you say things. This is why I explicitly stated that you can make a list that tells the truth. If sites automatically tick the box that buys you in to other sights it isn't opinion. It is fact. You can say just that. You can also say that you do not like that practice.

There are many things about America I like, but thankfully there is one thing about the UK I do like. That is the way the media can stand up for the small guy to protect him against unscrupulous companies. It is why I like Channel 4 and The BBC. Now this doesn't always happen, quite often because of vested interests. I prefer to go on facts separate from opinion. The way some sites operate is not opinion, it is fact. Whether you like it or not, is opinion. Private Eye got sued on many occasions for calling crooks, crooks. Now there is a difference between that sort of thing, and making a list of companies with dubious practices and what they are. These sites are supposed to be review sites after all. You can even make a list of sites with practices you do not like. If those things cannot be done, then quite frankly I would have no faith in anything printed here. If it can be done but people on TBP do not want to do it, because it costs them money, now THAT I can understand and would sympathise much more with.

12-22-08  09:42am - 5844 days #12
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Okay call it a Red Flag rather than blacklist. All it needs to do is point out the truth. You don't even need to say these sites try to deliberatley trick you. All you need to do is have a list of sites which have questionable practices. Tell the truth, then let everyone make up their own mind. The really bad ones profit due to lack of information and ignorance by us, the customers. They profit from us not knowing what their practices are. All the Red Flag thing needs to do is point out EXACTLY what these sites do and how they operate. If they have the trick of pre signing you up to other sites on their sign up, then point this out, along with all the questionable practices.

Another thing is, this is the internet. Some of the sites operate in a very grey area anyway. It would take a lot for a site to sue. If they even tried, it would throw open their policies and attempted trickery to everyone. There is a big difference between informing people and saying "don't join," anyway. I am merely saying tell the truth and tell it openly. I support freedom of information. A lot of power can come from freedom of information. Take the profitability away from the garbage sites, the profitablility they get due to customers' ignorance. Let the money go to the decent sites. This benefits everyone.

The easier and more accessible this information is, the better. It's no good saying all the information is out there, because people don't know where to look. This is not just something that benefits those ripped off customers, it is something that benefits everyone, including TBP, the legit sites, and of course, us.

But I can sense it isn't going to happen. Most of you probably don't want something like this. For me it would be the single most important thing that TBP or PU ever does. Edited on Dec 22, 2008, 09:49am

12-22-08  08:28am - 5844 days #8
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The fact that mbaya asked if there were other warnings form PU and TBP about reprehensible sites demonstrates exactly WHY TBP/PU should have some sort of blacklist or red flag system working. The information should be readily available without having to search through everything to find it. I am sure a number of you. like badandy, disagree with this. Mbaya, JayG and myself may well be in the minority on this one. But at least this thread does provide a service of sorts. If anyone knows of any really bad sites I hope they will add them to this thread. At least that will help in some way.

Anyone who is starting off as new to the internet and subscribes to a rogue site, may well be put off subscribing to another. Eventually they will find free download services and use these rather than get ripped off again. So I believe this sort of thing needs to be highlighted rather than the okay all the information is available all you have to do is look attitude. That sort of thing is far easier for all you experts who know everything, but far more difficult for novices.

I accept we 3 may be in the minority, but I have a personal hope this thread will be used continually as a warning.

12-21-08  07:16pm - 5845 days #3
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I think all three of us think this is a great idea. Ultimate Porn Zone is another site that has had really bad reviews recently, mainly due to the fact that it claims to have tons of sites, but they all have the same material. I think TBP should have a blacklist or Red Flag system where the really bad ones are named and shamed. It all goes towards helping the money end up with the really good, honest sites. So it isn't all about criticism and being negative. In the end it has a positive and beneficial effect for everyone.

12-19-08  01:08pm - 5847 days #10
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Hah hah very good! It looks like you are very possibly mad like me. Although my nurse told me I was getting better before I shot her.

12-19-08  05:53am - 5847 days #8
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I have decided to boycott all sites thst show regional variation and all the sites that do not show a sign up amount in punds. This leaves quite a few to consider. I believe in voting with my wallet.

12-18-08  07:08pm - 5848 days #27
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Wow you really are into Top Gear. Can't believe anyone from the US has even seen it. (I loved the special race to the North Pole and the trek across the US in cars only bought for $1000). You can even take the British humour it seems. Classic Clarkson line to pretty American girl "you can't be American, you're not nearly fat enough."

They constantly get into trouble over here. The lorry driver comments caused a big hoo haa. A Labour MP wanted him sacked. Clarkson : "This is a hard job and I'm not saying that to win favour with lorry drivers - it's a hard job: Change gear, check mirror, murder a prostitute, change gear, change gear, murder. That's a lot of effort in a day."

12-18-08  05:55pm - 5848 days #25
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Originally Posted by Toadsith:


Aw, don't go giving up on the British car industry just yet! The Caterham Superlight R500 is proof there is still life in the little British car companies yet. Not to mention Lotus, who seems to be the secret adviser to every car company as to how to properly build car suspension.


You must have been watching Top Gear. They love The Caterham, even though it looks awful. This is highly unlikely as you are American, but you do turn up with some surprising cross references on occasions. In case anyone has heard of Top Gear, my favourite introduction of The Stig was "...and if HE'D been married to Paul McCartney, he'd know enough to keep his whingeing, whining trap shut!" (Of course no one knows what I am talking about)

12-18-08  05:50pm - 5848 days #23
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Originally Posted by messmer:



so rejoice, you're normal.


This of course, amounts to defamation of character. I therefore propose to resort to the services of that very well known British law firm, "Messrs Sue, Grabitt, and Runne." The addition to the firm of the Oriental Mr Li (pronounced Lie)has spiced thing up even more for anyone who dares to cross their paths.

12-18-08  02:59pm - 5848 days #7
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Yes it's the deceit I hate. In dealing with CCBill I have generally not found what I am actually paying in my own currency until after I get the bill. This is why I will not sign up with any site using this billing agent again unless the amount is shown in my own currency. This is what it amounts to: they are not telling you the amount they are charging you because they are not telling you what the exchange rate is. Even when using euros they are sometimes not telling us in Britain what the exchange rate they are using is. So basically they can charge you what they like because they are choosing the exchange rate, any exchange rate they like - anything they get away with. It isn't just CCBill, although I think they are the worst. It also depends on the site. At RealSpankings you can see the amount in pounds. I want to see the sum total of what I am going to pay in my own curreny on every site.

Once again, I wasn't objecting here to the concept of charging different amounts for different areas if it is up front and made transparently clear what you are paying in your own currency. But it is another thing I object to. I don't particularly like it because of the reasons stated by Denner. I think it is basically a way of ripping off the users in Europe. But it is when you think you are paying in dollars or euros and not finding out what you are paying, until after you get the bill that is bugging me.

As Denner pointed out, American sites are receiving payments in dollars. So we should be paying the equivalent in dollars. I do not want to pay more because I am from Europe. It's greed. While sites still do this and resort to tricks like trying to sneak in extra sites for more money on your sign up form, the whole bunch of them look like conmen. The porn trade has a long enduring reputation of being seedy, greedy, corrupt, and dishonest. These tactics still make it look like it hasn't changed at all.

12-18-08  09:43am - 5848 days #3
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Well with CCBill it isn't even close to the exchange rate. You will find a difference of about 30 per cent in their favour. The last time I went with CCBill I was charged £10.54 for $14.95 dollars at a time when the dollar was worth about 55 pence. At 55 pence to the dollar $15 equals around $8.30.

On the other hand if it was regional pricing why wasn't it stated? At no time was I quoted the amount I would pay in pounds or euros.

I admit I had steam coming out of my ears on this one when I saw Khan's reply in the Video Box comment thread. It wasn't so much Khan, as my being incensed by the way these companies appear to try to deceive and mislead what the charges and prices are. I have been running around like a blue arsed fly, all afternoon, trying to get things done, and it's going to be the same this evening. I sort of got side tracked though by these threads, and felt I really HAD to say something. The result is that what I have said has not been as clear and precise as I would have liked. Edited on Dec 18, 2008, 10:41am

12-18-08  09:00am - 5848 days Original Post - #1
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Has anyone else felt they have been deliberatley misled by regional pricing? I use the word "deliberately," deliberately. I have found in the past CCBill to be very bad on this. I have signed up for dollars only to be charged a rip off exchange rate. Khan say this is not an exchange rate but regional pricing. I accept this concept if it is truly the case. When this really is the case, I would like the price to be shown up front, and clear. They should make clear that the price in dollars is not what you will be charged in Europe. They should make clear the price you will actually be paying in your own currency.

I have on a number of occasions been charged a rip off exchange rate by billing agents. It seems CCBill is really the worst. In these cases I have only been charged in dollars. At no point in the transaction did I see pounds or euros mentioned. If it is going to be done it should be made clear that this is the case. To pay in dollars and find out you have been truly ripped off is pretty disgusting though. When you pay, before you press any buttons, it should be made clear the amount you are paying in your own currency.

How many of you have been ripped off or felt you have been ripped off? I know the answer is quite a few, so I will use this thread as a little campaign. What about the idea that anything you sign up for HAS to have the EXACT amount you are paying in your own currency, and HAS to be the exact one you are eventually billed for? Anything else should be illegal.

I think a number of you have signed up, or believed you have signed up for an amount in dollars, only to find the amount you eventually pay is way over the top. I don't believe much in coincidence, so I believe this is a case of billing agents being deliberatley deceptive.

One more thing. When you buy dollars or any currency, you receive the exact amount in that currency in cash, charges included. It isn't a case of "oh there's a few more charges involve," or "oh of course your currency went down so you're getting less than originally quoted." It can be worked out on the spot what you get. It should be the same with purchasing anything in a foreign currency online. Edited on Dec 18, 2008, 09:29am

12-15-08  06:23pm - 5851 days #2
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Brilliant. Of course you know what this means - with that sense of humour you must be British.

12-13-08  02:26pm - 5853 days #6
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Thank you for your comments you two. I guess I am sticking my nose out a bit on this one. Maybe messmer has got it right though. He alludes to something that seems to be happening across the board. All that technology, and relatively cheap too, compared to years ago. A massive chance for some sensational stuff to be produced and what happens? Yes, a thousand companies all making clips that look like they came from the same three companies, and all seemingly produced either by 15 year old kids who are so amazed by what they are doing, they forget about the people who are actually going to view the things, or get rich quick, get it in the cans as quickly and cheaply as possible producers, who don't give a shit because quantity is better than quality. An opportunity missed by everyone.

I am talking here about run of the mill porn, rather than fetish. Maybe that's the only way this thread can apply here and make any sense anyway. All the opportunities to make great stuff relatively cheaply and break the decades long tradition of highly expensive porn, that is difficult to get hold of, seem to have gone to the wall. So yes, I do know what messmer means. This site may partly help, but where are all the people who want to produce quality porn, professionally, and with some affection and love for the subject?

As I have said before, but it does no harm to state it again for all you youngsters, 30 years ago it would have cost about £60+ just to buy one video with less action than one on any of those DVD download sites. We realise this, but we're not being jaded when we just want to see something that really is a little different. Not upside down sex in a water tank. I just mean something with quality and originality, produced by people who care about the subject, the content, and the paying customers.

12-13-08  09:20am - 5853 days #3
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Well, messmer I don't expect much of a response to the thread, but thanks for your reply. Strangely enough, out of all the sites I mentioned, not one is genuinely British. Oh god, we lost the British car industry, now we don't even have a decent spanking site we can call our own.

There was other stuff I could have mentioned but the post was becoming far too long. One irritation I found with Girls Boarding School was that because a lot of the clips are cut up into two minute segments, you find a lot of the clips being tailored around this. There is quite often two strokes, then lots of talking, lots of walking around. There is a LOT of talking and walking around on GBS and not a lot of action. The videos do look good quality, whereas on Realspankings the earlier clips were better, but with poorer production values. The later clips, IMO had better production values but weren't as good.

12-13-08  06:49am - 5853 days Original Post - #1
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Okay, I know 95 per cent of you wont be interested in this thread, but I sort of said I'd do this. So to the two I promised, who will actually be interested here it is. A very small guide to spanking on the internet. It was going to be about perversion in general. Or we could call them niche sites....no, lets stick with perversion, it's more honest. But this would be too long, and since only about two of you are interested anyway...

Some of the sites aren't listed here so it's clear PU just finds them too offensive. I have to admit a lot of the stuff is not my bag at all. But a favourite of mine has always been spanking. If you're new to this I would thoroughly recommend the site devoted to spanking on the internet run by John O'Connell and David Pierson. It's truly excellent. It's called "The Consumer's Spanking Video News And Reviews." It's totally free and I think offers some of the best objective opinions on spanking. The address is www.spreview.net - hope I'm allowed to print that.

A mention should go to the Realspankings people too, as they run their own forum. It is run by people who are clearly into spanking. I got into an argument on that forum. There was someone who called the people at Mood Productions "sadistic scum" and all sort of things, because of the strength of the punishments handed out. I argued that the rest of the world considered us all sadistic scum for enjoying spanking. Along with someone else who supported my view, we said that if you like spanking, and label someone "sadistic scum" just for the strength of the spanking handed out, you are on very thin ice indeed.

For the record Mood Productions are indeed the strongest spankings available on the internet. Realspankings deliver light to reasonably strong spankings. Most of it is around the medium strength. The site is the Video Box of spanking. There's tons of stuff, but is arranged in such a haphazard way that you really have to search it out. The best spanker IMO, Lady D, has left. Mr M is still there. They have moved location to a bigger studio and are shooting for the first time in nearly two years. The thing that really bugs me about Realspankings is there are too many spankings over clothes. Some spankers love this. I hate it. But a good point is you can download two angles of the same spanking. You can see the rear end, or the face of the girls reacting to that spanking. There are also many Realspankings sites. Very confusing. if you go with one I would suggets Realspankings.com which is I think the first one.

Around the same strength of spanking is Girls Boarding School. I was a member of this one too, but I did not like it. The strength is a little lighter than Realspankings IMO. They have possibly the most beautiful girls but...the doms there are so annoying, I would never join again. There's one who continually says "you stupid girl" in the most ridiculous accent and talks in the most annoying way. I just want to take out a baseball bat and hit him again and again and again, until he shuts the f**k up. The other dom is just as bad. This one talks in a really stupid West Country English accent. Nooo.... oh the shame. Baseball bat time.

The Nettles/Russian slaves videos can also be downloaded at Her First Punishment. There are other sites where they are available too. There is a dom here who is also extremely irritating. He prances around like the bastard son of Mike Tyson and a ballet dancer, with a lobster in his underwear. Talks a lot, screams a lot, prances around a lot, probably auditioning for a minor role as a baddie in a James Bond movie. No baseball bat here. Shotgun.

One of the biggest drawbacks to a Russian Slaves clip is that it looks like the producers hand them over to be edited by a blind chimpanzee and his guide dog. The chimpanzee decides where to cut, and the guide dog sticks them together with his paws, using sellotape and scissors. It's that bad. You see action clearly duplicated. You hear "stop" followed by exctly the same action from a different angle, followed by the word "stop" again. The action is good but is spoilt by awful editing and all round lousy acting and production. Incidentally, this is the same blind chimpanzee and guide dog who officiated in the MLB World Series, and can currently be seen every week in the NFL. The action from Russian Slaves is not as hard as Mood and generally a bit harder than Realspankings. But some are surprisingly light, including the more recent ones.

Spanking Server is the Pain4Fem download site. The action is medium to quite severe, but the drawback is you cannot download all the videos available. Your memebership only gives you the right to download all the recent updates. So you cannot get access to their considerable catalogue without paying extra. I have never joined this site although I do have some of their clips.

Punished Brats, Firmhand Spanking and Dallas Spanks Hard all run medium strength sites that the aficionados seem to love. In fact Dallas seems to have a great reputation for customer service, quite often dealing with any problems himself and sorting them out very quickly.

Just behind Mood in harshness is Hard Caning, which is the download site of Caned4cash. Caned4cash is sadly gone and Hard Caning has had only one update in a year.

I hate Lupus because I sent them cash for some DVD's which they said was short. I counted out the money carefully about ten times before sending it, so I know it was all there. I don't particularly like their product that much nowadays, anyway. Their earlier stuff was much better. I have no moral problems about downloading any of their stuff from free download sites.

One thing of note is the implements used. Americans primarily use paddle and strap, whereas Europeans use the cane.

Better end it here. There are tons more sites out there, but I have picked my own personal favourites. I like Mood Castings, Realspankings, and the sadly defunct Hard Caning the best. Edited on Dec 13, 2008, 08:42am

12-12-08  06:18am - 5854 days #30
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Just read it, thanks to the link from Khan. If Walter was still around he would certainly be worth a "no" for a trust vote. I see you already cast your vote Drooler. Most of the comments on here are intelligent, and from people who are serious about their subject. Comes as a bit of a surprise when one or two are not up to standard. Sounds like a great addition to Wittyguy's golden gala.

12-11-08  01:20pm - 5855 days #22
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I don't think they give a shit about the kids. It sounds to me like the thin end of the wedge, where they use the kids as an excuse. After this is accepted by the public, they continue the tightening of the net, and banning of sites, including the ones that have "dangerous attitudes" or are "dangerous to the public's well being," until they have the control that they want.

12-11-08  05:43am - 5855 days #63
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Originally Posted by Drooler:


May as well. She's already been in a few "Clit Eatswood" movies.


LOL!

12-10-08  06:07am - 5856 days #61
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She gets shot twice and still comes back. She should be in a Clint Eastwood movie.

12-09-08  09:32am - 5857 days #3
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This fits in with what I was thinking about more sites getting together to pool resources, amalgamating, or simply buying one another out, in order to deal with the worldwide recession. I expect to see more of this.

12-08-08  05:14pm - 5858 days #20
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Yeah, they did a documenary on those people over here. Frightening. Originally I would have said these people aren't that scary because they are so fringe they don't really matter, but after seeing the book burning, censoring, and return to Creationism, I have changed my mind. I have always thought that sort of madness is no danger and easy to fight, but when I look at the madness of some religions and how popular they are, once again, I'm not so sure. It seems some people are almost literally stuck in the middle ages. I really don't think you can educate that sort of ignorance.

12-07-08  03:58pm - 5859 days #18
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I believe there is a reason law has evolved in the way it has. No conspiracy. It's just that if you have a set of convoluted laws, they can be successfully manipulated in order for the rich and powerful to get what they want.

For instance look at planning permission. Some little guy wants to develop a piece of land to build a house. But the land has been used in the past 50 years to graze cattle. If that is the case planning permission can be denied. If you get the same piece of land with a rich and powerful "friend" wanting to develop it he gets the planning permission. This is because planning permission "can" be denied but not always. It's just how the law is interpreted.

These Miller tests and anything else around "public decency" and what poses a "threat to morality" are deliberately open. Law is vague because the people who pass it intend it to be that way. Also because governments use the opinions of the public in order to structure the law the way they want it. They use media in order to do this successfully. That's why changing the law becomes such a long process. Once a law is passed that becomes evidently bad for Joe Public, it takea a ponderously long process to change it.

As long as law remains open for interpretation it helps those who can profit from manipulating those laws. I believe governments actually need public outrage surrounding porn, paedophilia, terrorism, poverty, immigration, rape, murder. They want it and need it. They can use it as their raison d'etre. They don't want to get rid of it. These things are their friend.

12-07-08  03:33pm - 5859 days #65
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There is another reason this is bad. If you trust governments and police you can probably find little argument against having your fingerprints taken, DNA, photos, history, who you slept with in the last 30 years, where you went every day for the last 30 years, maybe piece of skin, electronic tagging device, tracking implant etc. It's only done to protect you. Nothing to fear unless you're a criminal.

If however you regard the biggest criminals as the government, police, CEO's of big corporations, the army, and civil servants, you have every reason to be very frightened, as new technology is making it easier for them to track every move that you make. Just be a good citizen and don't disagree with them and you'll be fine....ah unless they use all this new technology to incriminate a few innocent people for crimes they didn't commit in order to protect the rich and famous, or maybe because they just don't like the colour of your skin or political beliefs. Oh, I'm sure everything's going to be fine. Nothing to worry about at all.

Thankfully there have never been any serious miscarriages of justice in this country because the people who govern and police us are so honest and upstanding they can be thoroughly trusted with that sort of sensitve information. Edited on Dec 07, 2008, 03:38pm

12-06-08  05:00pm - 5860 days #58
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Thanks Drooler. I knew I could rely on one of the experts to fill me in. I had a feeling it might be some non exclusive stuff.

12-06-08  04:03pm - 5860 days #56
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I just realised there's one I've always wondered about called "Freshgirls.tv." Does anyone know what this site is? I have never joined, as it has never been listed here.

12-06-08  07:33am - 5860 days #50
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If you want to reply with the highlighted quote just press the centre button out of 3. There's "reply to message," "reply w/quote" and "report" at the bottom right of each post. Then you delete all that you want from that member's post in order to leave the quote you want to reply to.

12-05-08  04:54am - 5861 days #34
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Originally Posted by sitsat:





-If I rate a site that has only two other reviews averaging 85 each, then I will bring the overall score down to around 75, which may be perceived by others as a 'mediocre' or perhaps 'poor' average user rating, even though none of the reviewers thought so.
-However, if fourteen others had reviewed the site and their average was 85, my score would bring the overall down to 84 (no real difference).
-Even if I thought the site was very good and gave it a score of 80, it would still have a negative impact on the overall score due to my personal scoring system. Hence, even though I might have enjoyed the site more than the average viewer, it would have been better for the site if I had not reviewed it at all.




I think that is an excellent point, and is one I have thought about myself. I was thinking if I reviewed a site that everyone liked, if I liked it better but gave it a lower mark, it would actually harm the site more than help it. It's something that has made me consider not reveiewing sites.

The reason I made my post in the first place was because I considered marks being awarded were too high, given the guidelines, but it's me that's out of line. So my scoring system, (which I consider accurate and fair and based on the guidelines laid down!) could do more harm than good.

12-04-08  07:38pm - 5862 days #47
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Originally Posted by Wittyguy:


Keep it up and you'll end up in a NYC jail catching "wide open post patterns" up the Keister with your NFL receiver cellmate


The very thought makes my eyes water. So that's what they mean by the term "wide receiver."

I shall just have to admit the awards were fair and square,
and it was a case of sour grapes on my behalf. After all, we're all winners here.

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