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12-04-08  06:52pm - 5861 days #44
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I do bow to your clearly superior knowledge, and have to admit you deserved your double award. I am also thankful that Michael's best friend, Donny Duck, managed to wrestle him to the ground along with half a dozen security penguins, before any serious damage was done.

12-04-08  06:41pm - 5861 days #42
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I see you're not slow to flaunt your awards, Toadsith. Personally I think awards events are a little rodentist. No hint of a nomination for Roland Rat, Secret Squirrel, or Mr. Michael Mouse at any awards ceremonies this year. The small fact that Mr Mouse went on a drug/drink crazed tour of some nightclubs recently and shot himself in the ass with an illegal firearm, while trying to unholster it, in order to shoot his own reflection, which he perceived to be a nutter carrying a gun, may have had something to do with it.

12-04-08  05:51pm - 5861 days #40
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There's Lars Von Trier the film director, and both Gus Hansen and Peter Eastgate (who is the new world poker champion) are Danish.

12-04-08  10:01am - 5862 days #9
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I'm a bleeding heart liberal so they're getting 15 cents an hour - that's more than Nike.

12-04-08  09:25am - 5862 days #7
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You may want to check out my new thread "How to instruct Philippino children in building a nuclear device from the safety of a remote controlled underground bunker."

12-04-08  09:21am - 5862 days #21
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Originally Posted by jd1961:


No offense, but to me, that's a creepy thought, like peeking in someone's window.


Yep, I would be the first to admit I am a bit creepy and a pervert! I consider porn performers to be like any other paid performers, that includes musicians. My position on any artists or performers is this - I've paid you to perform, now get on with it.

12-04-08  05:57am - 5862 days #3
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What a great reply. Thanks Khan. Age must be eroding the brain, don't know how I missed where it was. Nice to see there's not that sort of censorship here anyway. It's very reasonable you make a profit out of this site, but it is more a profit out of promoting excellence and thoughtful discussion than out of ripping people off.

12-04-08  05:14am - 5862 days Original Post - #1
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I was looking for the thread which Denner started about how TBP makes money. Was this thread banned or removed and is this topic not allowed? If so, what topics are banned or out of bounds on here? Edited on Dec 04, 2008, 05:29am

12-03-08  06:59pm - 5862 days #15
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That's been happening to me. I've been repeating myself all day. I said I've been repeating myself all day. I'm staring to think I'm Foghorn Leghorn. Fix that bug, I said I said fix that bug.

12-03-08  06:07pm - 5862 days #17
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Originally Posted by Cybertoad:


GONZO PORN,


So is it the fact we can place ourselves menatlly into the picture ?
Might be, because we get annoyed by the small things in porn videos.
Imagine your having kinky gozno sex and you got some guy talking in your ear LOL. Hmm maybe thats why we get annoyed by guys talking cause the screw it up.


My Take

Cybertoad


There was a comment by a comedian, who loved hardcore porn, about why he loved it. He said the difference between hardcore and softcore was that with softcore the girl is without someone and seemingly coming on to you, because there is no one else there. The fanatsy is you could have her, whereas in hardcore this is not the case because someone else is already having her.

I have always thought the kick from watching hardcore was that the beautiful people are paid to have sex for our entertainment, not imagining it was me in the porn clip. I have never thought it was about projecting my fantasy or imagining it was me having sex. I just consider annoying people in porn to be a distraction from what I want to watch. Just as I would consider someone scratching their fingernails down a blackboard to be a distraction while watching porn.

The reason I get annoyed at small irritating things in hardcore is for the same reason I get irritated at small distracting things when I'm having sex. The phone ringing, a car or house alarm constantly going off, people arguing outside - it's all a distraction and a bloody nuisance. That's why in porn, I hate the dork guy in front of the camera who can't shut the f**k up, or the cameraman who is constantly talking and being an idiot. They're a distraction and a total bloody nuisance. When that happens my fantasy is taking out a baseball bat, and beating the living shit out of them.

But as Cybertoad says, this is just my view on this. My guess is there are about a thousand others, all with different ideas of why we love porn. Edited on Dec 09, 2008, 05:55pm

12-03-08  01:04pm - 5863 days #6
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Like the post - but once again I was diverted by a great new avatar! One of the best.

12-03-08  11:00am - 5863 days #15
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That's brilliant. Love that toad in the Christmas hat, although it may well be a poison arrow frog.

12-03-08  10:41am - 5863 days #31
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Sorry if this is off topic, but I didn't know whether to make the comment here, or on the next big thing in porn thread. I do agree with Wittyguy when he says the the future is in streaming. There will be uproar from porn users if they try to stop downloading, but with the amount of free porn and copyright theft porn out there, it could well mean the end of downloading as we know it.

The price of porn at the moment is I think, astonishingly low (but don't tell the porn sites), so I can see a very large rise in prices for downloading material. I can see the cheaper wholesale video sites like Video Box go with downloads of older stuff, while the more independent sites stick with streaming. Then after that, they sell the older stuff to Video Box, or whoever. This is what happened when they first started releasing big movies on video. First run big movies were expensive to buy at first, some companies would do rental only. Either way you couldn't own a new big movie very cheaply. So it may go this way for first release porn. Edited on Dec 03, 2008, 10:55am

12-03-08  10:25am - 5863 days #4
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Don't need categories IMO. Some forums have rigid moderators filing everything in neat little categories and getting upset if anything is out of place. I really like the eclectic nature of the members and posts.

12-03-08  05:52am - 5863 days #2
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HO HO HO!

Good to see you keeping up the sick twisted standard of humour. I wouldn't have expected anything less.

12-02-08  07:00pm - 5863 days #2
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I think it works fine as it is, without getting any more complicated. It's up to us newbies to check more thoroughly before we bring up a subject. Even if a subject is brought up that has been dealt with before, the oldies can then tell us that.

The original post above, was Khan's reply to me when I asked about how much porn do you actually watch. I do remember reading about this a few times, before I was a member. I am still not convinced how much porn people do actually watch though. I know you have broached the "addict" subject as well, which was a great thread too. Maybe your awards thread, has some serious merit to it!

12-02-08  05:32pm - 5863 days #9
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Oh please please god don't let them bring back plot lines, or talking in porn! Those old fashioned plots had 50 minutes of talking and 10 minutes of action.

I think it was John Stagliano (Buttman) who really got the genre started. He developed his style as video gradually took over from film. I think very few porn makers produce the same quality as Stagliano. He is one of the few who seems to genuinely enjoy what he is doing. He sadly caught HIV but still makes porn with a passion that most of the others do not have.

12-02-08  03:45pm - 5863 days #23
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This is incredible. Tonight I was going to make a post saying that since joining this site I've spent more time here than actually watching porn. I was going to ask if anyone else was doing the same, but expected a backlash of "don't be stupid how can you spend more time here than watching porn?" I spend about 3 minutes here for every minute watching porn.

Another thing I was going to say was this - how much of the porn you save do you actually watch? Because I think some people probably download enough to last into the next century, but never get around to watching it...ever. It will never ever be seen because there are just not enough hours in the day. On the other hand as a bit of an habitual hoarder myself, I do like to save things, safe in the knowledge I have them, even though I will probably never use them, watch them, or read them again. It's just a nice feeling to know I have them. But because I am realistic I am being VERY selective on what I actually keep from porn sites. I don't think most of the stuff that is downloaded is ever watched. It's that feeling that once you have it, you start searching around for other things, trying to discover something new and exciting. Then you find it, download it, and move on to something else. Or am I wrong on this?

Love the festive McGoohan avatar! Edited on Dec 02, 2008, 04:13pm

12-02-08  05:18am - 5864 days #6
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Heh heh - good stuff. Just one piece of advice. Either keep off the drugs or get back on them!

12-02-08  05:11am - 5864 days #4
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Great avatar.

That's the second time I've had that duplicate thing happen.

12-02-08  05:11am - 5864 days #3
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Great avatar.

11-29-08  04:40pm - 5866 days #11
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Yeah, even worse here. They must know I'm over 50. I keep getting spam for Viagra and Ciallis!

11-28-08  07:29pm - 5867 days #7
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Yeah, no surprise this happens. That it's no surprise, doesn't make it any less disgusting. There are so many laws that favour rich and big companies. It would be nice to see one that makes it illegal for any company that has your address, or email address to sell those details to others. The old saying goes "where there's muck there's brass." (For the young and non British this basically means there's a lot of money in shit!)

11-28-08  05:44pm - 5867 days #16
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As most of you are no doubt aware, I am a soap boxer myself. So in answer to Wittyguy....

Yes I do think they may do something like make you register your credit card with them. Companies love getting those credit card details. The excuse is, it's a way of proving you're 18 or 21.

But there are wider implications. More and more governments want to trace us, file us, and keep tabs on us. They will use any excuse to do this in the name of public safety. I think it depends on how you look at government and those in control. Do you regard them as

A. Decent people who only sought election to office in order to make the world a safer and fairer place with equality for all?
or
B. Complete bastards who lie and cheat their way to office, who represent the few rich and powerful liars and cheats, that spent plenty of money to get them there?

For those of you who put A, I would like to ask you a question - would you like to buy a second hand car from me, sucker?

Okay, if your answer is B, then you have to take the view that these people regard us as the enemy. I think you will all realise that I go for B. I think they always have and always will use any chance they can to pass laws that will try and restrict freedom of speech and freedom in general.

So yes, I think they are always looking to what is going on, in order to take advantage of any chance to push forward an oportunity. If they can persuade the public that what they are doing is really in their interest, they will use that window of opportunity to do something to control and curb freedom of expression and freedom of cheap media.

All that is being said at the moment is moving along the lines of the internet being strongly restricted, monitored, and held accountable. They want control. They will get it. Soap box over. Edited on Nov 28, 2008, 06:08pm

11-28-08  01:13pm - 5868 days #24
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I love the "six to sexxy reviews list." In particular how many gorgeous girls have been ruined by some dickhead in front of or behind the camera?

The reason I made the post in the first place was because of my concern that the really fantastic, individual, classy sites may not stand out because of all the high scores awarded to sites which are pretty much all the same.

To use a really ridiculous comparison, remember when Nadia Comaneci kept scoring 10.0 out of 10.0 in gymnastics? They had to change the scoring system, because quite soon after that all the girls were doing more and doing it better.

I would love to see a total overhaul of the scoring, although realistically this is not going to happen. I agree though with just about all the coments that have been made on this thread. I realise why things are the way they are. I'm not going to change them, and I really wouldn't want to anyway, simply because people seem very happy with the scoring system the way it is.

11-28-08  10:43am - 5868 days #26
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Originally Posted by Khan:


And to TheSquirrel ...
We don't mind Users asking questions and I certainly hope you didn't read my remarks as trying to inhibit asking questions. We've tried to be very candid with our answers to questions even if the answers are not always what (some) users may want to hear.


Actually I quite like the way you pop in and give your opinions and feedback. This is far preferable to nothing at all. It shows there is a human being behind what would otherwise be another faceless site.

11-28-08  09:09am - 5868 days #24
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Even though I agree with the TBP policy, I like anyone who asks questions, and I like a place that allows them to be asked. Sometimes they need to be asked - it's one way of finding out!

11-28-08  07:12am - 5868 days #22
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For what it's worth I totally agree with that policy, for all the reasons stated.

11-28-08  07:09am - 5868 days #8
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Originally Posted by Denner:


where shall we start or end - in order to tell those money-people not to hassle us?


This place certainly helps. If you find something that is unfair, a rip off, or bad and it's posted here, people take notice. It lets companies know that if they try something underhand, it will be publicised. If it's publicised it may put people off going with that company. This improves things in the long run.

I used to go to a number of review sites but liked TBP the best. Then I started noticing the PU thing, started reading the Denner reviews and found they were much more incisive, critical and what I was looking for in a review. I think this was before the PU forum was created. Then I found myself paying more notice to the PU comments than the actual TBP original reviews. In the end this place was the first I would stop by to see what a site was like.

So your reviews really did make a difference in one small way! I have to believe it's going to apply acrosss the board. Fans will take note and vote with their feet - or at least with their money. This must improve porn in the long run.

11-28-08  06:25am - 5868 days #5
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There's usually very little coincidence involved when money's at stake. I know they are considered generally trustworthy by the people here, but they have just about the worst exchange rate for converting dollars into pounds. Denner, I think they are all devious in their own way, certainly from what I have read on the forums and reviews. What Jeffrey has said about Epoch makes me very wary of them too.

11-27-08  09:15am - 5869 days Original Post - #1
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I don't want to be another soap boxer. The reviews on here and on TBP are great. But there is one criticism that I think is deserved, and that is the marking. I can understand why TBP gives such high marks. Nearly all review sites do this. They give higher marks than is maybe deserved. All review sites earn their income from porn sites. I don't mind that in the slightest, and I think everyone realises this and doesn't mind as long as the review is fair.

A score of 90-99 means near perfect. I can't think of ANY sites out there that are near perfect, at least not from the reviews, and all the cons that are listed against even the best sites. TBP started marking a lot of sites in the high 80's and 90's. This meant that the people at PU also marked along the same lines. The bar was already very high. Too high in my opinion. TBP is a great site, I just learned to read between the lines and realise a score in the 90's did not necessarily mean a site was that great.

I think we need a new sort of scoring, or at least adjustment in scoring so that the very best sites stick out. Okay, this is just my opinion and no offence is meant to TBP. They were usually the first reviews I would go to, and I still think it's the fairest and best site for reviews. It's just with so many scores in the 90's there is nowhere to go, in scoring, for those sites that are unique and truly deserving of a 90 (a near perfect site). The scoring is already so high that a score of 95 now doesn't mean a lot, or at least not as much as it should do.

This for me is the one negative about TBP and PU. It is not a great negative, because if you read the reviews, you can make up your own mind without really worrying about the score too much. What do you think? Edited on Nov 27, 2008, 10:10am

11-26-08  09:24am - 5870 days #75
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At the moment my favourite avatars are Toadsith, Monahan, and Drooler. Also special innovation award goes to Wittyguy for his various collection. I loved the face from about 3 weeks ago.

Yes the porn users on here are clearly intelligent. If Monahan runs for office and uses that avatar he's got a good chance of winning.

11-25-08  07:49pm - 5870 days #39
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I think this is a great thread for sure. I agree about the watermarks. I hate them. Now there's only one way to get rid of them. It's the same principal we apply to DRM and sites that use download limits. If you don't like it, don't give the site your money.

I'll be patronising once again and say that's what I like about PU. We find out from reviews what the drawbacks are BEFORE we part with our money. This knowledge gives us an advantage over most. It helps us, but it also helps to improve the porn industry, by directing our money towards sites we consider better quality and more deserving of our money. It is natural selection at work. Almost Darwinist.

11-25-08  04:15pm - 5870 days #62
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Going back to the bad old days I am reminded of what Monahan was saying on another thread, about having to search out the occasional VERY expensive and illegal video from a porn shop. The first one I bought cost about £60 in 1979, I think. About 10 minutes of genuine action in it. But to be able to view it at home - WHOOPEE welcome to the new age.

Of course, those who were caught selling that sort of thing were going to be imprisoned for over 2 years. It seems incredible now, but in all honesty it seemed incredible then. Someone selling pictures or videos of two people having sex could end up in prison longer than burglars, rapists, or compulsive thugs.

One of the places that sold genuine porn was a shop run by Mary Millington. Most of you wont have heard of her, but she was probably the last of the great British sex symbols. She stood five foot nothing and if you passed her on the street you probably wouldn't have given her a second glance. But she was very photogenic. She only made about five hardcore short movies, all the rest was soft core. But she found Scotland Yard spending thousands of hours and a shitload of tax payers money in going after her.

One of the pictures she was going to be prosecuted for was, from what I can remember, a picture of a topless girl walking a dog. This was suggesting bestiality according to the Crown Prosecution Service so they went after her. she ended up taking her own life after becoming severely depressed over all the cases against her, and the constant raids and harassment.

She seemed genuinely interested in what she was fighting for. She could have behaved and still made money out of her body, but she believed in fighting for the freedom of her business. Very few remember her. It's a sad waste of a life, but it also illustrates how far we have come, and is also a reminder of the kind of forces and the mentality we are constantly fighting.

What really broke it all open wasn't the internet but satellite. The forces of law and order and righteousness could not stop the onslaught of "filth" being beamed in from foreign countries by those dastardly foreigners! There were a few prosecutions attempted but the flood gates were open.

I would not like to see those times again where the voice of the government - the media, told us how harmful all this filth was to our fortitude and morality. We could go back that way again if we are not careful. It's technology that opened it all up, but there is a constant fight by those who control us to use that technology against us. So it's a battle of good against evil as far as I am concerned. We try to use technology to make our lives more free, and open up free speech and debate. That very same technology is used by governments to try to control us and restrict our freedom. Edited on Nov 25, 2008, 06:02pm

11-25-08  11:30am - 5871 days #16
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I do agree with what both of you are saying. The first place I used to look for porn reveiews was TBP, but nowadays it's Porn Users. Some of those TBP reviews are ridiculously old. There are a lot of sites, but a lot of them are part of multi site companies and a lot of them are really fringe stuff. I am surprised the bigger sites don't get more of an update.

Some of the reviews on here are great, but one or two look as though the reviewer hasn't even looked at the guidelines for making a good review. I looked at other reviews and read the guidlines, before jumping in and making my first. But overall here I think the reviews are spot on. In fact it's the Toadsith review of "American Vice," which made me sign up. It looks to be everything that I hoped Video Box would be.

Toadsith - the other 2 of my favourite shows are The Avengers, and Babylon 5. Jeremy Brett made a fantastic Holmes, but I hope you keep your Prisoner avatar.

11-25-08  06:17am - 5871 days #12
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Originally Posted by Toadsith:


Good catch! Indeed it is :-) It is a hand drawn rendering I did of a film still of McGoohan driving the Lotus 7 in the title sequence of The Prisoner.

Be seeing you.


It's a superb and fitting avatar.

After watching that show too many times there is the danger of keep repeating "be seeing you" instead of "goodbye." For me the title sequence with the Lotus is the most powerful and best opening of any show. It is of course just a matter of opinion, but it's certainly my favourite opening. Sadly the last few episodes didn't have it because of plot requirements. There is as much anger and determination in that, as any protest song or film.

11-25-08  06:08am - 5871 days #11
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Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


TheSquirrel, I was looking at your profile page and it shows you have gotten no raffle tickets. Your score of 6 entitles you to raffle tickets, and your Rookie Badge entitles you to at least one raffle ticket.


Thank you - yes I know I should probably have entered but I haven't bothered yet. Never really been fond of lotteries or raffles, but I guess I should enter.

11-24-08  07:46pm - 5871 days #4
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It's "The Prisoner." "I'm not a number I'm a free man," was his catch phrase. I saw the series when it was originally released. I'm really surprised Toadsith is even aware of that series! Happens to be one of my 3 favourite TV shows of all time.

But about your original point - I totally agree with you. I like to see trust votes being totally transparent. I have thought one problem could be if a site did not like a review, they could register, do three reviews then post a negative trust. Or someone could vote negative for someone they just don't like. I'm a newbie myself, but I don't think they should allow anonymous trust votes, either negative or positive. On the other hand, some people don't care one way or another.

PS - At risk of being a smart arse, "The Prisoner" was considered partly a metaphor for Patrick McGoohan trying to escape from the "Dangerman" series. His character is addressed by name only once in "The Prisoner," and that is by Leo McKern's Number 2 in the 16th out of 17 episodes. He calls him "Drake" (or at least that is what it seems), which was the name of the character McGoohan played in "Dangerman." Edited on Nov 24, 2008, 08:27pm

11-23-08  07:17am - 5873 days #8
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This is a subject that has appeared in today's poll. Companies do a number of things when the going gets tough so maybe "all of the above" may well apply when considering what sites may do.

1. Better quality - although that will mean a much higher price.

2. Cheap tricks like you have been talking about - not cancelling, insidious small print, secret sign ups, longer notification for cancellation, etc.

3. Higher price for the same quality.

4. Same price for worse quality. This could include shooting a ton of stuff simultaneously with the same models then releasing it for the next year as brand new updates, or just increasing subscriptions. Others may do the opposite, and go down the cheaper subscription for the same content road.

5. Takeovers and consolidation. Sites could join up and share their portfolio of porn.

6. Tons of sites going bust.

You see all of those things happening in big business. Talking about the porn business as one entity, as in today's poll, may be a little misleading as different types of company with different CEO's deal with hard times in different ways. As in real life this probably means the fittest, the best, the most innovative, the most deceitful, or the nastiest will survive. So a real mixed bag. Edited on Nov 23, 2008, 09:32am

11-22-08  10:26am - 5874 days #14
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Okay, I'm starting to drool. Those sites do look good. If the content is soft I like it to be really special and it sounds like it is.

11-22-08  09:48am - 5874 days #11
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Given your two avatars I had a feeling you two would sniff out something! Teen Dreams is a site I have never joined but was considering. NUdolls sounds good too. I prefer hard to soft, but it sounds like they have some of both on those sites. I read Toadsith's review of American Vice. That sounds pretty good. Sadly I don't have many recommendations myself. There is so much out there, but I guess I stick too much to safe sites. On the other hand I don't get ripped off when I take a chance and join a "rogue" site.

11-21-08  07:42pm - 5874 days #7
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Cheers! I always check my spelling, but for some reason missed the spelling on the thread title.

11-21-08  05:39pm - 5874 days #5
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I'm sure I typed "most" not "mosr" for the title. I find this really irritating as I cannot edit it. Can some mod out there please change it? Please!?

11-21-08  10:44am - 5875 days Original Post - #1
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I always like to see reviews of smaller sites, rather than yet one more review of a site we all know about. Wittyguy, Drooler, Monahan and the rest of you all seem to know a lot about what's good and what isn't. (Almost descended into cliche and said "what's hot and what's not.")

I love those reviews of smaller sites. I also know one or two of you take "hits" as well, in the name of curiosity! You find the occasional rogue site that's absolute rubbish, and then inform the rest of us and save us some money. This is great, and one of the reasons why this site is so good.

What I want to ask is what are your favourite small or underrated sites that we should all know about? I know there are some great sites out there, but one or two seem to get ignored. I think Denner mentioned how he loved "Devils Film" and how he considered it totally underrated and unsung.

There are a few sites that seem well loved on here, and maybe there's a good reason for this. Maybe the others aren't as good. But when I checked out "Video Box" I was disappointed to a certain extent, but I loved the quality available on "Pink Visual." I do like a site that has very good quality video. I suppose we're all spoilt nowadays with so many affordable good quality sites, so I'm being a little fussy in looking for some obscure ones. I'm from the UK, so I guess I love an underdog. Edited by Staff on Nov 21, 2008, 06:43pm

11-20-08  05:11pm - 5875 days #54
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Wow that was quick - you've done it already. Naturally I had to do a review, and naturally no none will be interested because it's such a small niche. But I prefer to see a review of a smaller site rather than yet another review of a bigger one.

11-19-08  09:25am - 5877 days #52
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Don't see one for Enemarotica. They now have downloads available for one week to a month, or longer, and do not automatically renew subscriptions. You get what you pay for.

11-18-08  04:44pm - 5877 days #13
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I am amused/disgusted by the way governments and authorities always use the "think of the damage done to the child" argument when wanting to pass a law they want to pass. But when it comes to letting companies relocate to some country, making thousands unemployed, so the company can make huge profits out of cheap foreign labour, no one seems to think about the effect on the children of the unemployed then. Same goes for helping the poor, sick or injured. Governments always seem to get this social awareness about children in a selective way. But where big bucks are involved it's a case of f**k em.

11-18-08  04:35pm - 5877 days #10
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I guess it just shows that there are so many deviations, that I haven't even thought of some of them. I have to say that for me, the whole point of porn is to see an attractive girl without clothes. May as well be an hour of fishing, playing baseaball or going shopping for food as far as I'm concerned, but if it turns someone on...great.

11-12-08  06:26pm - 5883 days #33
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Maybe there will be more of an emphasis on quality, with better lighting and cinematography. Maybe there will be a development along reality porn lines, with internet real time views of porn videos being shot. A sort of online window into the making of a video. That would be kind of fun. I have always liked the "behind the scenes" sort of thing.

What was suggested some time ago and has also been done to a small extent, is being able to choose the kind of action you want to see. So a great many scenes are shot, and then you get to choose how the scene develops and what camera angle you want etc. This of course, would be very expensive to do well. Many many scenes would have to be shot, which means lots of tape, time, and money.

Yes, I agree with the animated porn thing too. I think as techniques improve it will become more and more popular.

And one of these days I will actually be able to make a post, without having to re edit it for spelling or punctuation mistakes.

11-12-08  06:07pm - 5883 days #8
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Yeah, DL limits is one thing that really puts me off joining a site. I was thinking of joining the "All Reality Pass" group of sites but was put off because of the download limits. I have only a limited amount of time to be able to download. Sometimes I cannot find the time to even get online, so some days I cannot download at all. Their limit of allowing 6 movies a day is the reason I have not joined.

The worst thing is when you don't find out about the limits until you join. This is as annoynig as having to untick the extra site boxes when you sign up. I just HATE being conned, or someone trying to con me. It totally puts me off a site that I am thinking of joining. That's the thing I love about this site - you get to read about a lot of the really important small print, or tricks these people try out before you sign up. The information available here is very important and very informative. It really helps towards improving quality on adult sites.

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