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| Porn Users Forum » DRM - The REAL Truth |
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| 01-10-09 08:22am - 5824 days | #51 | |
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Ergo Proxy (0)
Active User  Posts: 52 Registered: Dec 22, '07 Location: Germany |
I bought some program for removing the DRM and it works fine. If the streams are taking over, I will buy a video capture program, no problem. Though it takes away the fun of simply enjoying your porn. But the bottomline is, if someone really wants to keep a certain content he/she will find a way to do it, so I am sort of relaxed concerning all that copy protection stuff. All hail to the hypnotoad! | |
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| 01-10-09 10:39am - 5824 days | #52 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User  Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
Are you willing to share the source of the programs that remove DRM and that will capture and save streaming video? | |
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| 01-10-09 12:15pm - 5824 days | #53 | |
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Khan (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,737 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: USA |
I must remind everyone that the PornUser Rules state .... No discussions about undermining legitimate security features of the sites we list. This includes (but is not limited to) password sharing, back-door access, circumventing DRM and/or streaming video, etc. Your anticipated cooperation in this matter is appreciated. Former PornUsers Senior Administrator Now at: MyPorn.com "To get your ideas across use small words, big ideas, and short sentences."-John Henry Patterson | |
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| 01-10-09 11:34pm - 5824 days | #54 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User  Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Get'em Khan! Khan is right. The DRM is there for a reason. I do not agree with it being there and believe to get ride of it we simply need to avoid those who use it. Natural selection will take care of the rest. I hope I do not step over any lines here. Monahan....the stuff is very easy to get a hold of and use. Basically it records a certain window or area of your screen. Kinda like siting a video camera in front of your TV to copy a movie or whatever. However; it does about as good of a job as that. The video takes a great deal of space and looks pretty much like shit. So I will save you the time. The only real use for those programs is to make tutorials of how to use a program, or record a video game you are play and post on line. Again, in a lower quality, but the point is to brag about your high score or show someone what to do. Quality is not paramount there. Ergo Proxy. We do not care about your moral feelings toward piracy. if you do that it is your business and not ours. We prefer to keep it that way as we prefer to keep this site running. If you want to talk about porn or other legal activities we would love to talk with you. However, if you want to talk about piracy methods and other illegal activities please be forewarned that the staff here will not tolerate it and I will jump all over your ass about it. Another note worth fact. They are working with the idea of hardware DRM. The laws are different when hardware is involved; thus, the legal penalties are significantly stiffer. My understanding of this is if a person attempts to circumvent the hardware DRM they are looking at prison time in the range of 10 years! So lets try not to give them more reasons to actually release this sort of thing. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 01-11-09 12:54am - 5824 days | #55 | |
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Ergo Proxy (0)
Active User Posts: 52 Registered: Dec 22, '07 Location: Germany |
I understood that no one is interested in my moral feelings, so let's get back to the porn. I also did not mention the names of the programs I use, because it would have led to major brouhaha here, I know that too. I simply want to state that I remove the DRM and keep the videos for myself. This does not affect any single atom or subatomic particle outside my hard drive, right? All hail to the hypnotoad! | |
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| 01-11-09 01:22am - 5824 days | #56 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User  Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
I have no problem using a program that removes DRM spyware from my computer. | |
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| 01-11-09 06:13am - 5823 days | #57 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User  Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I have no problems at all with breaking the law as it is there for the benefit of the minority, and is used against us, the majority, for the benefit of the minority. That's IMO of course. I am just explaining how I feel about the law, so anyone will understand that I would have no problems at all with any programmes for removing DRM. I prefer to visit places where you can download for free. I have always loved piracy and supported piracy. Years ago when there was a lot of video piracy starting up, the big companies always used to tell us, oh we don't like piracy because it hurts the small guys. Ha ha ha, they were SO worried about the small guys, right? I have no moral worries about downloading stuff for free, or breaking the law in any way. Before anyone gets too righteous, let me add that a lot of the sites we see linked to from TBP could well be outside the law as defined by your American laws. Same goes for British. If they aren't illegal now, they could well be in a few months or years time. I have never respected any law that does not represent me. So I have no moral worries at all about breaking it. Naturally like others here I would not discuss any programmes that would break the terms of being here on PU. The reason for this is, apart from my quite liking the place, being here is my own decision. It is not forced on me by some government that cannot justify its own existence, it is MY decision to be here. If I don't like what these people who own the site represent, then I leave. But if I wish to be here I must respect their policies as it is their place not mine. I trust this post does not break the rules. Let's just say I understand the place is a business and has to make a profit. Therefore the opinions and attitudes represented by the people who own and run the site, may sometimes not be supported, or even in the interests, of the customers here. But personally I think, at the moment, the pros of this site outweigh the cons. Given the way things are going, this site could be illegal in most countries in a couple of years time. Think about that, before anyone gets too smug about not breaking the law. By the way - this is not an attack on anyone. I know the reasoning behind opinions expressed by Cybertoad, badandy, and Khan. These need to be expressed too, and I agree with a lot of the things they say. I don't mean to be at loggerheads, it's just I always like to express an alternative view, even though I find myself agreeing with what they say as well. Edited on Jan 11, 2009, 06:29am | |
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| 01-11-09 07:43am - 5823 days | #58 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
Excellent commentary, guys, and I agree by and large with Squirrel on the legalities and "moral" aspects and with BadAndy400 about the desirability. I remained totally pissed at the Danni.com ripoff I experienced a few years back where Danni (Ashe) protected all of her material with DRM, but also said that, if a subscriber downloaded DRM protected material and made sure it stayed in the same place, she "guaranteed" unlimited lifetime access to the stash after the subscriber cancelled. Sadly, I believed her. I bought a 500 Gb external hard drive (rather expensive back then) and downloaded a whole lot of material in a carefully structured set of directories. The monthly subscription set me back $29.99 a month for a lot of months but at the time I figured I was developing a great collection. So when I had about 400 Gb of stuff saved I decided to cancel. Guess what? Access denied. I tried everything. Still denied. The email support and telephone support both said I had to re-subscribe to get any support. So I did. I paid for their non-VIP membership ($19.99) and tried again. This time they said support was available only for billing and download issues, not for DRM issues. Sorry. In other words, I was screwed, and lost all respect for Danni Ashe and her "Danni's Pledge" about fair treatment and responsive Customer Service. I understand Khan's point completely and will respect it, but I still have an external hard drive loaded with a whole lot of material that I cannot access because of the fraud committed by a site that used DRM. Sites use DRM to protect their content. I'm down with that. But when a site lies as Danni.com did, I feel that I have every right to find a workaround. | |
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| 01-11-09 08:14am - 5823 days | #59 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
How many of those sites using DRM have customers who know the implications and how far do they go in making sure the customers know the facts? How far do they go in making sure they don't? In effect, some of these sites are stealing from their customers, so customers shouldn't worry too much about stealing from them. That's once again, just IMO. There are also other methods sites use to obtain money dishonestly or shadily, just like any corporation. It's dog eat dog out there. Very possibly I am one mad dog. | |
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| 01-11-09 08:04pm - 5823 days | #60 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
As I said before, what you do privately is your business so long as it stays private. I never said I condemned nor condoned piracy. I just do not believe it is something that one should flaunt. Getting rid of the DRM on videos you download for personal use is no better than anything else. you are still doing exactly what the creator wishes to prevent. This creator my see the downloading of videos as a form of renting. Just like Netflix, you can watch the video as many times as you like so long as you are paying for the service. Of course people will continue to find ways around piracy prevention. After all the programs have only until the release date to figure out how to prevent piracy, well at least until the date they begin writing the media onto disk or whatever. There are 1000 equally skilled people trying to break the prevention for every person creating it and the have from the release date until forever to figure it out. Since the media makers must pay for this piracy prevention it drives the cost up for the product for those who actually pay the retail price for it. Would you be pissed if you spend all day for several years creating something that should set you up for a lavish early retirement only to find you made no where near the amount you thought because 45% of the people you though would buy it ended up hacking it and now use if for free? Of course you would! No of course there is a flip site. Is it stealing if one copies say a movie. This movie that was copied they would never actually pay to see. Yes they see the movie, but there was zero potential for the creators to get paid. For example, is it stealing if I download a Garth Brooks song when there is no way in hell I would ever pay for it even if paying for it was the only way of getting it? I can not say that I agree with TheSquirrel. He sounds like he is very bitter about something. Laws are there for a reason. Now admittedly some do not protect the interests of the consumers, but overall most laws have good reason. Squirrel, I believe the reason you "love piracy" is because you have always been on the pirate end of the stick. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 01-12-09 08:03am - 5822 days | #61 | |
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jd1961 (0)
Active User Posts: 296 Registered: Jun 07, '07 |
I don't and won't join DRM sites, but if I did, I would be concerned over the "piracy" of my privacy. | |
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| 01-12-09 08:15am - 5822 days | #62 | |
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Denner (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,217 Registered: Mar 03, '07 Location: Denmark |
Absolutely agree with jd here: Two things and I really do not know which is most importend: Privacy or limitations. But a site that takes away my right to view what I download (and pay for) is out of my sphere of interest - and of course: how do these sites manage their DRM - concerning my privacy.... "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle" | |
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| 01-12-09 12:11pm - 5822 days | #63 | |
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Ergo Proxy (0)
Active User Posts: 52 Registered: Dec 22, '07 Location: Germany |
If this was not discussed before... I know of two sites which temporarily switched their content to DRM. There was a huge loss of members afterwards, so they changed back all their content to "no DRM" and their amount of members and salary went up again. All hail to the hypnotoad! | |
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| 01-12-09 05:45pm - 5822 days | #64 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Ergo Proxy. That is exactly what we need to do. Simple leave the people who want to use DRM out to dry. Hopefully, with time, they will learn that DRM simply will not do. ANytime someone mentions DRM my attention is peaked. And when a site uses DRM, even for a portion of their collection, they do not get my money! "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 01-12-09 06:18pm - 5822 days | #65 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
HEH HEH, bad old Squirrel, bitter old Squirrel! You may be surprised that I agree with a lot of what you say. One of the things I agree with is the way to deal with DRM. If you want to get rid of it, don't subscribe to sites that have it. Since I have certain social anarchist beliefs I wont go into those too much. They are mostly for a different sort of forum, but admittedly I have gone into them here occasionally, as I consider they do have relevance on occasions. But there is one thing I will add, and it's one thing I brought up on the realspankings forum. When people start to talk about stealing and righteousness I do look at things in a slightly different way. It's not that I condone or condemn things too much, in the same way you don't. But what I would say is that we both come from countries which our ancestors invaded, killed most of the natives, exploited all the resources, and enslaved who was left. Then continued to do it to other countries. Then we told our children that killing and stealing are wrong. Edited on Jan 12, 2009, 07:36pm | |
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| 01-12-09 07:46pm - 5822 days | #66 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
Fortunately, this is not done in the US. However, I can not say what is done outside the US by other people and the US. There is a difference between killing and copying a movie or removing DRM. I will not pretend to know what goes on in the world, and I do not mean to sound righteous about piracy. Piracy in a certain sense can be good. Consider, if a movie becomes too expensive for many people they will simply steal it. Piracy can in fact help enforce a celling on prices since the sellers do not want to perpetuate piracy. I do not want to pay $20 for movie or a website anymore than you do. But, the people who make the movies and websites do deserve compensation and the right to preserve their work. As a whole, piracy is wrong and there is no way to deny that. It is just that sometimes piracy is more wrong than others. Just as there is a difference between stealing from a dumpster and stealing from the shelves of the store that the dumpster belongs to. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 01-12-09 08:27pm - 5822 days | #67 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
I think you may have missed my point here. I was merely touching on the hypocrisy that you sometimes hear, when people become too self righteous about not stealing or doing other things that are considered bad. All of our history, and where we are now, is based on theft and murder. That doesn't mean I think theft or murder is right. I merely try to think about everything on a level and realistic basis given our history and human behaviour. As a matter of fact, as I touched on before, I don't actually believe in right or wrong. I consider them abstract ideas. I don't believe in any god, therefore I don't consider right or wrong actually exist. It's just what the current concensus of opinion is. That's why I just have my own moral code and leave that to guide me. I believe theft and piracy can be beneficial things. You touched on the reasons yourself. I don't like it when I see corporations becoming so powerful they have a malevolent influence on people. Piracy helps to undermine this. There are lots of other reasons along these lines surrounding prices being too high, because of corporations almost illegally acting like cartels. Once again piracy helps to curb this. Piracy also helps you feel good in ripping people off that you consider ripped you off.(Or alternatively kicking down their door, and smashing the place up, or whatever - okay it would really be naughty of me to suggest that! Maybe piracy is better) Piracy can help to curb monopolies, cartels, and actions detrimental to the majority. Since I believe laws are there to protect the minority rather than the majority, I don't think it is any coincidence that big companies and the very rich who act in a monopolistic way, tend to own the media and therefore put governments in power. Those governments will naturally be acting in the interests of those who put them in power, and allowing them to act in the way that made them rich in the first place. It's just a different way of looking at things. It is no more right or wrong than yours. Both our attitudes and beliefs carry a certain amount of truth. I just like to put forward an alternative opinion. But for what it's worth I do consider myself an honest person. I hate lies and I hate theft despite what I have said. But that is concerning decent and honest people. I have no problems lying to, or cheating dishonest people. Who gets to decide who those people are? Me of course. As I said, I live my life by my law, not other people's. If I break the law I may get caught. That stops me from doing things I may otherwise do, unless there is a good way of not getting caught. But it's the fear of being caught that stops me doing some things, not other people's morality. I have my own morality and live my life by that. I really think that's what most people do anyway. They just try to justify it when they do something that is considered bad. My justification is that I just wanted to do it. I like Monahan's reaction to the site that ripped him off. Bugger what the law says. If someone pisses you off or tries to do you harm, my reaction is, do harm to them. I really don't think that corporations or the very rich, who are acting in their own interests, are doing any wrong either, as I don't believe in that concept. They are just doing what they do to make money. As I said, it's dog eat dog. Just realise who are your friends and who are your enemies. If someone hurts you, hurt them. That's just my way of looking at it. Don't for one moment think that what you have said along the lines of piracy undermining quality of product and decent companies has gone unnoticed. That's why I have said and will say once again that mostly I agree with you. Edited on Jan 12, 2009, 08:39pm | |
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| 01-13-09 07:13pm - 5821 days | #68 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
As I stated when this site first got going, I tend to avoid DRM sites unless they have good pics with unlimited pic downloads (there are advantages to pics :). Another good reason to avoid DRM is privacy issues as Denner alluded to. Theoretically, it would be pretty easy to attach a worm, spyware or other device into a DRM activated download; stuff your anti-virus may not pick up. I'm not saying any sites are doing this but it wouldn't take much effort to do so. I don't really agree with the "pirate it anyway" philosophy. You're better off voting "no" to a site by not joining it because of their DRM practices. By joining and ripping the vids anyways, you're just leading them to believe that DRM is a workable sales model when we all know it's crap. I don't think pirating this stuff leads to a decrease in quality, most porn is pretty low brow in terms of quality anyways and the top rated sites that do produce high quality original content don't seem to use DRM. The music industry has experimented with some forms of DRM by limiting the number of times people could burn cd copies, by encypting downloads, etc. but they have all pretty much failed because the work arounds are easy and widely available so it doesn't really stop piracy from happening. Porn is probably even worse in terms of piracy because it's a mass produced commodity run put out by a widely dispersed industry that isn't well organized to defend itself legally or technologically against pirating. If the 'mighty music moguls' (say that fast 3x in a row) can't solve the piracy issue the porn biz doesn't have a prayer. In my opinion, DRM is not a content protection issue, it's purely a sales strategy. Too many newbie webmasters don't really realize this and think that they need to protect their "hot shit" that probably isn't so hot and smells about the same as everyone elses only to find their stuff out there on the porn-jacker sites anyways. I also think DRM can lead to laziness because by protecting their feeds websites probably start to think that they can get by with rotating content because the DRM stranded buyers won't know because they aren't sticking around for months to see everything. Because porn is such a universal and usually unimaginative commodity, there just isn't anything new under the sun that DRM protected sites are protecting ... they're just hiding their content where the sun don't shine. In other words, DRM won't really solve a websites problems and at the same time it alienates a lot of buyers who won't go there because of the DRM. By avoiding those places you send them a message that they need to find a new revenue model. Edited on Jan 13, 2009, 07:25pm | |
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| 01-14-09 05:21am - 5821 days | #69 | |
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The Clyde (0)
Active User  Posts: 31 Registered: Jun 21, '07 Location: Michigan |
My feeling on Porn Piracy are slighty different from Software of Music piracy. Website developers, producers and porn people need to decide if those pirating the products would truely purchase them if they weren't available illegaly? Are you really losing customers to the Newsgroups, Torrents or Tube sites? Probably not many if any. It is a FACT that you are losing a loyal customer base with DRM Protected vidoes. Why risk losing your REAL customer base to prevent piracy by those that may never purchase anyway. splantet has seen a decline in subscriptions, could it be that there are many more avenues for the true amature porn? Seems like there are a ton of sites, were before there weren't. You must stay AHEAD of the curve and evolve. Working on something for six years is great, but you must work forward. I'm a member of 6 sites right now, none of which have DRM. The last DRM site that I joined (GGG) changed policy within a month of my joining. If you want to lessen the impact of those joining the trial and downloading the entire site. Ask for a very small amount $1.99 for a day trial, with access to only a few full vids. Then have options for a longer subscription. I have joined American Vice for a year, VideoBox for 10 months and yesterday joined BrainPass again for one year, only $89! You get much more money upfront and I doubt that I will use more bandwidth. In fact, my bandwidth comsumption will be spread over one year rather than 4 weeks. This should lighten the load on your servers and reduce costs. I'm a BIG FAN of the one year subscription. Kinky | Inky | Pinky | Stinky <><><> Give em to me Hotter than Fire <><><> | |
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| 01-14-09 06:47am - 5820 days | #70 | |
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Tree Rodent (0)
Active User Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 29, '08 Location: UK |
Brilliant post Wittyguy. You sum everything up perfectly. Clyde brings up a great point that others have touched on. That is, if you have trial offer why not just put a limit on the downloads. Give people the ability to download a handful of material. Tell them they can download whatever they wish under a certain limit, just so they can see how it works and what the material is like. If I ran a great site I wouldn't want people downloading everything for a dollar, but I would want them to sample how great the site is. To me, this makes sense. | |
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| 01-15-09 08:54am - 5819 days | #71 | |
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badandy400 (0)
Active User Posts: 869 Registered: Mar 02, '08 Location: ohio |
About that. I use a Newsgroup server and guess what!?!?! I have actually joined sites because I like the videos that where posted there from their site. It kinda worked like advertising, in my case anyway. I know many people will leach the videos and the creators will never see a dime. but would they have ever seen that dime? Even though I can download everything for free off the newsgroups I still subscribe to the sites. The sites are much more reliable, file naming is better, and I am sure to get everything this way. Typically the newsgroups only have the more current updates. Which in it self is great because I can see how the site is doing and decide if the quality is worth going after. "For example, badandy400 has taken it upon himself to become the one man Library of Congress for porn with a collection that surely will be in Guinness Book of World Records some day." ~Toadsith~ PU Interview | |
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| 01-15-09 09:59am - 5819 days | #72 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
One site I visited solely because of a review on PU is American Vice. It's a DVD site. In the review (or a comment) someone said that they offer 5 scenes for free, no restrictions. So I tried it and, yes, sure enough, 5 full length high quality scenes absolutely for free. So you are right. I was impressed by the quality, the site's price is right and their search function is the best in the business. And the sample process did prove how great the site is. A $1 trial for a sample, or as these guys did, a flat out free ride with real stuff, did the trick. I'm about to spend $18 to join this site for a month and give it a real trial. (BTW, they even offer a pay-as-you-go option if you want to buy scenes one at a time instead of signing up for the unlimited access.) | |
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| 01-15-09 12:12pm - 5819 days | #73 | |
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Wittyguy (0)
Active User Posts: 1,138 Registered: Feb 04, '08 Location: Left Coast, USA |
The music industry already learned from this one. Today, you see more and more cd's coming out in the $10 range. Why spend the money when you can pirate it? It's relatively cheap, the quality is better, you actually own the product to do what you wish and reload to your mp3 if that ever gets fried, and you're supporting the artist whom you like in hopes they'll kick out new stuff in the future. Sounds like something the DRM sites might take to heart and sounds like a reason to not deal in pirated porn. | |
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| 01-15-09 05:55pm - 5819 days | #74 | |
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williamj (0)
Active User Posts: 102 Registered: Sep 29, '07 Location: usa |
Thank you well said. I understand both sides now. Business is business and you laid it out so well. I feel like I'm very informed after reading your post and I have to make a business decision to join or not to join. Your statement regarding that web sites should let the consumers beware (okay know) was the final piece in the puzzle. I agree, Yes Web sites should make the buyer be aware regardless in plain Terms before joining about DRM restrictions. Will | |
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| 07-06-09 07:53am - 5647 days | #75 | |
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Easy (0)
Active User Posts: 2 Registered: Feb 01, '07 Location: Canada |
DRM can be setup is a variety of fashions. I know of sites that use DRM just to keep the files from being shared/edited, but still allow the user to freely keep the files and enjoy them after their subscription expires. | |
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| 07-06-09 08:52am - 5647 days | #76 | |
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Jay G (0)
Disabled User  Posts: 96 Registered: Jan 12, '07 Location: USA |
Paranoia about intellectual property is nothing new. Somehow, in the case of Disney Vs. Betamax, the producer (Disney) claimed that sales of videorecorders would destroy the movie industry because illegal copying of videotapes would keep Disney from making a profit. Ironically, when Disney and other companies finally stopped fighting progress, they made more money selling huge numbers of videotapes at fairly reasonable prices than they ever had from renting movies at high prices to very few people. The psychology of economics that doesn't seem to be understood here is that playing music for free on the radio does not end demand, it actually creates new demand from those who otherwise wouldn't hear the song, but really want to own it. We could just listen to free stuff, BUT WE DON'T...we want to OWN it. The cheap jerks who steal from you never would have bought your product anyway. All DRM does is tick off paying customers...... Jay G Edited on Jul 06, 2009, 08:56am | |
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| 08-26-10 04:39pm - 5231 days | #77 | |
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Yariana (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 56 Registered: Mar 10, '10 Location: Salem Oregon |
Sell to the masses, eat with the classes. Sell to the classes, eat with the masses. | |
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| 08-28-10 05:22am - 5230 days | #78 | |
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elephant (0)
Active User  Posts: 585 Registered: Jan 11, '07 |
I love the idea about the 5 free movies for a trial, it creates interest and if you have a price that matches these big sites or slighlty under like $20-$25 u will see people subscribing. Most people don't mind paying for quality, I certainly don't , give an incentive, some freebies to longtermers,think creative. Even offer a movie or set a week (if you produce a few updates a week)or a free movie or set a month. Make your site more of a community and get the models involved, people love that. send out a newsletter with free material to people who sign up for it on your site. Show them that you are unique, you want to reward people who are members. and its all about marketing, people on here are right most of the time these leachers wouldn't pay for porn anyway, you are not loosing their money as they were never going to give it in the first place. Target those honest people that like porn and respect that the owners and their models have to live to see more quality porn. Give freebies really works on the creating interest and once you've hooked them they will pay a price to get more. offer them a 5 dollar discount if they re-subscribe within 3 months, things like that. "Women are like tricks by sleight of hand, Which, to admire, we should not understand." WILLIAM CONGREVE Edited on Aug 28, 2010, 08:09am | |
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| 08-28-10 07:56am - 5229 days | #79 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
Elephant has some great ideas. In fact his post would be great as a starter of a new thread; "New ways for porn sites to attract or keep subscribers". | |
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| 08-28-10 08:11am - 5229 days | #80 | |
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elephant (0)
Active User Posts: 585 Registered: Jan 11, '07 |
Thanks Monahan I'll start one and people can help with input to give some webmasters some ideas at least to beat the credit crunch and get their profit and members base up. "Women are like tricks by sleight of hand, Which, to admire, we should not understand." WILLIAM CONGREVE | |
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| 08-28-10 08:38am - 5229 days | #81 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User  Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
Excellent input there!  Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 09-25-10 03:13pm - 5201 days | #82 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended  Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Let me say right off, based on the fact I know too little about "DRM" to really wade into this fray.... there is something I would say having carefully observed the following ongoing battle. If this were rather being hammered out in a court-of- Law, and I was one of the unfortunate Jurors, I'd say, based purely on the arguements going both ways here, I would have to vote in favor of Splatnet. His argument pertaing to infringement damage and losses from theft was compelling.  | |
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| 09-25-10 04:00pm - 5201 days | #83 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User  Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
The movie industry argued that the VCR would destroy the movie business, because of illegal copying of movies. But the movie industry is still with us, making more money than ever, in spite of the VCR (and in spite of DVDs etc.) With DRM, you can download photos and videos from a web site. But my understanding is that you can only view those photos and videos as long as you are a current member of the web site. You don't legally own photos or videos you download from a web site. But as a consumer, it's nice to be able to view them, once you download them. If you are a collector, your entire DRM collection is junk, as soon as you stop paying a membership fee to the sites the DRM material came from. So DRM effectively kills the reasons for collecting. But then again, jurors can vote any way they want to, based on whatever they feel or think is right. | |
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| 09-25-10 04:27pm - 5201 days | #85 | |
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Ed2009 (0)
Suspended Webmaster  Posts: 509 Registered: Sep 12, '09 Location: Wales, UK |
Until you said that, I'd never even thought of advertising that as a feature. I will add a message to my sites imminently. None of my sites use DRM, but I didn't think of saying so. Thanks for the suggestion! Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity. | |
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| 09-25-10 05:42pm - 5201 days | #86 | |
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Monahan (0)
Active User Posts: 348 Registered: Jan 17, '07 Location: SF Valley, CA |
Danni.com had DRM when I joined up. The teaser site bragged that, once downloaded, the video was yours to keep even after quitting the site. The ambiguity made no sense because why use DRM if you can keep the download? So I wrote an email to their customer support staff. They said that if I download one of their videos onto my primary hard drive, the associated license is also downloaded. So I went with it, signed up, and downloaded a big bunch of stuff and transferred it all to DVD's and external drives. They all played just fine...UNTIL...I canceled my membership. Immediately I had no access to any of my stash. So I wrote again copying the original email. And again. And again. Finally I decided to join again for a month to see if I could access my stash and to see if I could get a reply to my inquiry. Bam! Access returned and I got a very rapid reply. But it was a bit different. They said if I want to store video on an optical disk or an external hard drive, the license doesn't transfer with it. I could only access the downloads after canceling membership if I store the downloads on my computer's C drive. Period. Being totally pissed off and being that I did not want to have even some of the stash on my C drive, I wrote back asking for a refund. I got one, but lost access to the stash again, except the two I left on my C drive to test the theory. I don't know if Danni.com still uses DRM (TBP says they don't, but they said that back when I rejoined, so who really knows for sure), but if Danni.com think they'll get me back, they've got another think coming. So, Ed2009, it is a BIG PLUS to promote no DRM, provided you really mean it. | |
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| 09-25-10 05:45pm - 5201 days | #87 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
I'm not implying I'm for or against either argument. I'm simply saying Splatnet has (in my mind) presented a stronger case. Personally: -- and I can't stress this too strongly -- if the above quote from 1k2fireone is indeed a fact, then I couldn't agree with him more. All the pay-sites I recall purchasing (except one).... I can't imagine that at least one or two must've had DRM. And I don't remember any of them blocking, limiting, taking back,or forbidding what I download from them to my harddrives. But then again I'm not mega-downloader. I get what I want and move on upon expiration. | |
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| 09-25-10 08:35pm - 5201 days | #88 | |
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lk2fireone (0)
Active User Posts: 3,618 Registered: Nov 14, '08 Location: CA |
DRM refers to Digital Rights Management. There are many different technologies to control or prevent the copying and usage of material. Mainly this is a copyright issue. DRM can be a complicated issue. Regarding ebooks, videos, music files, movies, whatever. Anyway, regarding porn paysites. I personally have not been a member at any porn site that had DRM. What I think or know about it comes from reading some of the posts at PU, plus a little reading about it elsewhere. My impression is that, regarding pay porn sites: DRM can be used to control the playability of a file, whether the file is a picture file or a video file. There are many ways to use DRM, but my impression is that the porn paysites that use DRM use it in the following way: As long as you are a member of the porn paysite, if you download DRM protected files, you can play them on your computer. Once you stop being a member of that porn paysite, the DRM protected files will not play on your computer. So, collecting DRM protected files is a waste of time, unless you maintain your membership in that paysite. Which means you have to keep paying, if you want to play the DRM material on your computer. Like I said, DRM can be a complicated subject, there are many technologies that can be used with and for DRM, controlling how the material can be used (what machines you can copy DRM material to, how many copies you can make of DRM protected material, etc. etc.). Perhaps someone with porn paysite experience with DRM could explain how DRM was used at the sites. Technically, DRM is not taking anything away from you. What DRM does is control how you can use, or not use, DRM protected material. DRM is not a big deal to me, because, like I say, I have not joined any porn paysites that used DRM. I would guess that you probably haven't either. Most porn paysites, as far as I know, do not use DRM. | |
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| 09-25-10 08:55pm - 5201 days | #89 | |
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Khan (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,737 Registered: Jan 05, '07 Location: USA |
If you re-read Monahan's post above (#86) it should help you understand how DRM impacts how you can use the content you download. As mentioned, there are any number of ways for sites to use DRM, however, the example he gave is the one most often experienced for porn downloads. Former PornUsers Senior Administrator Now at: MyPorn.com "To get your ideas across use small words, big ideas, and short sentences."-John Henry Patterson | |
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| 09-25-10 11:31pm - 5201 days | #90 | |
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graymane (0)
Suspended Posts: 1,411 Registered: Feb 20, '10 Location: Virginia |
Ooooky. The fog is lifting...and As the song goes..."I can see clearly now." Then, Suddenly, my mind went into reverse mode and some strange things that happened to some of my downloads began to mentally resurface.....and as I recall it wasn't pleasent. (Sorry, hackers, seems I misjudged you) I'm not going to bore anybody here with all the particulars, but suffice to say I'm joining the anti-DRM crowd ...working my way to the front of this melee with sabre drawn. Thanks to 1k2fireone, Monahan, and as always to PU's invincible master and Administrative stalwart Khhhhaaaannnn...I'm now a convert (and pervert too, don't forget) SIR, Reporting for duty SIR, YES SIR! | |
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| 09-26-10 03:07am - 5201 days | #91 | |
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Capn (0)
Active User Posts: 1,740 Registered: Sep 05, '09 Location: Near the Beer! |
I have never knowingly joined a site with DRM. As a collector, I wouldn't. So far as I am concerned I am purchasing the content for my own use, not renting or leasing it. Cap'n.  Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU AwardHilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award ( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/ Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder! | |
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| 10-11-10 06:32pm - 5185 days | #92 | |
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nineinch (0)
Active User  Posts: 9 Registered: Jan 08, '07 |
Danni no longer uses DRM. I have joined a few times since they converted back to a no-DRM policy and have had no problems. I had to re-download all the DRM-infected videos, but none of the new ones have DRM. I think most sites have gotten away from DRM, because of its inability to be truly effective, and because people return to sites that seem to have new content. Most people don't know all the places to download illegal copies of porn. Those that do might be concerned about malware, trackers, or simply degraded quality. I don't have a problem with sites wanting to protect their content, but there is little consumer advocacy for the consumer side of the equation. Most of the time, the end user doesn't really know the rules of a specific DRM protected video. The Microsoft DRM, for example, has all kinds of options that the content creator can implement. Unfortunately, Microsoft didn't create a tool for end users to see the options that were chosen by the creator. The DRM protected video becomes like a block box. It would be like leasing a car without knowing the exact terms of the lease. | |
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