> Well thanks for sticking it out, ... it is always nice to run across other people who enjoy the activity
Thanks to you, it takes two to tango :-).
> I'll admit I often have the habit of arguing another side just for the sake of arguing, it isn't in my nature to concede an opposing party's argument
So do I, but as long as we admit this habit, it can't be THAT bad :-).
I agree with most of your arguments, but on the other hand... IMHO as 3D Sex Game is ALREADY ranked on PU against Hands on Hardcore (they're shown in the same list according to the ranks, BOTH in "browse sites" and "hardcore sex" sites), we need to try to put them within the same ranking system, or those pages will become misleading.
If PU admins will decide to completely separate interactive games from the rest to avoid placing them in the same list - it would be a completely different story (and I wouldn't argue against such separation), but now they ARE within the same system, with rankings directly compared to each other, and IMHO we need to take it into account.
As for difference in "how much we enjoy this or that site" - I don't see it a problem, and completely agree that it is what this site is all about :-).
Ok, I will change reference to "3D engine" to "3D graphics", thanks for pointing it out (as I've said, I'm NOT into these things, I'm just a user).
About being impossible to compare apples and oranges - well, aren't we doing it here all the time? :-) What I'm trying to do is to put ALL the reviewed sites on scale of "how much I enjoy them"; and IMHO my ratings are pretty consistent in this regard; now it became even simpler as I have lots of sites to compare new ones with, and it's quite easy for me to say that I enjoy 3D Sex Game about the same as Naked News, MUCH more than Newbie Nudes and significantly less than Met Arts.
Also while everybody can choose their own criteria, I will explain why I prefer "my" approach (try to rank everything) to "your" one.
There are two problems I see with your approach (ranking only "apples to apples"). The first one is the question "what is the niche narrow enough to compare?" Shall we stop separating ONLY 3D games or it shall be done for ALL niches? And then - shall we separate, for example, ATM from Anal as being the same or different niches? In the very extreme case we can even say that all sites are unique, but it will make any ranking completely worthless. The second problem is that when new user comes to the site, he easily can see "the best sites" by overall rating right on the home page; but at this point he doesn't care about "best in class" thing, he wants "the best overall entertainment site", and "global" ranking (opposed to "per-niche ranking") is REALLY important there; another incarnation of the same problem is that sites are usually labeled as multi-niche ones, so if 3D Sex Game is compared to such sites as "Hands on Hardcore", which means that they shall have the same ranking scale. Just IMHO though :-).
Well, everybody has his own opinion , that's what this site is about :-).
About comparing 3D in ActiveDolls and 3D Sex Game - right, models there are anime-style, but in a sense they are MUCH more human because they have human movements and face which expresses something, and animation is IMHO FAR better there; also I don't really care about fancy features used like some-kind-of-shaders or DirectX v10 (I'm not game developer, I'm just a user). It is overall "feeling" what matters to me, and on this scale I DEFINITELY like ActiveDolls engine MUCH better; if trying to figure out what this "feeling" consists of, probably it will be naturally looking movements (including animated face) and overall "polished" interface (I didn't see minor rendering "glitches" in ActiveDolls which are abundant in both 3D Sex Game and 3D Stripper).
On the other hand, if you feel that "3D engine" doesn't cover all the 3D aspects and is all about shaders and such, I won't argue :-). My point is (and was) that overall "feeling" of 3D graphics and animation is IMHO MUCH better in ActiveDolls than in 3D Sex Game (and 3D Stripper COULD be brought to the same level IF they will get rid of those "glitches", will get rid of "jumps" between different dance segments, but to get significantly higher overall entertainment value they will also need MUCH more than a single girl).
> this makes it the best of games available and I graded it as I
> did in relation to the performance of its peers.
But I've tried to compare it's "entertainment value" NOT only to other 3D games, but to ALL the adult sites I know; that's probably where the difference in our ratings comes from.
Current Member for less than 1 month (at the time of review).
Pros:
++ quality of graphics is good
++ variety of actions is large
++ variety of toys is HUGE (including sex machines)
++ variety of outfits is large
++ variety of locations is HUGE
+ customization of almost everything (vagina,penis,body,...)
+ "Sex Coins" pseudo-currency to keep things interesting
Cons:
-- animation isn't so good
-- out of all the actions, a few are duo and VERY few are 3-some
- VERY few pose changes are animated
- undressing is not animated
- convoluted interface (tutorial and "hints" required to play sex game? Come on).
- need connection to play
- slow web site
- Downloading 65M update right after download? Gimme a break.
Bottom Line:
Continuing my quest in looking for a good 3D sex game, I've tried 3D Sex Villa (this is the game which you get when subscribing to the site). Well, after all the good reviews about it on PornUsers I was quite disappointed (it's definitely not bad, but IMHO doesn't warrant 90+ score).
First of all, to clarify - it is yet another "3D sex game" along the same lines as ActiveDolls and PlaySexGame - you have models, put them into some location, choose position and tell them to have sex. That's fine. At the beginning most positions, locations and models aren't available, and you need to fuck around a bit (literally) to get more (when having sex, you earn so-called "Sex Coins" to spend on "sex packs" which include positions or
toys or models). That's IMHO even better to keep things a bit more interesting.
But then comes a worse part. First of all, controls are convoluted; while the game has tutorial on controls, it's not really what I expect from rather primitive sex game. Also while graphics itself is good, animation isn't IMHO so good; I even doubt if they used motion capture to animate things (it looks more as a good imitation of physical model, than mo-cap), and faces have VERY limited animation. Outfits don't always fit good, and penetrations aren't always "clean" too. Overall, IMHO 3D Sex Villa's 3D graphics+animation feeling is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than that of ActiveDolls.
On the plus side, overall variety is HUGE: you can choose from REALLY HUGE set of models, outfits, locations, plus can customize almost everything (most of variety comes in "sex packs" but as long as it costs nothing rather than playing, it's perfectly ok with me). As some drawback to this variety, I want to mention that while they've added threesomes, they're EXTREMELY limited (formally there are 5 threesome actions, but some are so similar, that I'd say there are only 2).
And IMHO all that variety didn't make it significantly more interesting - it's still all the same routine of selecting location, moving to position and asking the girl to fuck. Models lack personality, so changing them doesn't really help, positions aren't too different, and outfits don't look too "natural", so apparently despite all the variety it still looks pretty much the same all the time, with some real variety added only by a few special locations like "Fetish Club".
Bottom line: while this game definitely outperforms ANY other 3D sex game I've seen in number of available options, action still looks pretty much the same. Overall, my feeling is that it's "entertainment value" is about the same with "ActiveDolls" (3D Sex Villa has MUCH more options to choose from, but ActiveDolls have IMHO SIGNIFICANTLY better 3D graphics+animation). So I've rated it the same as ActiveDolls.
Wow, thanks a lot for an extremely detailed answer. Just one thing which is unclear - does 3D Sex Games use motion capture or not? How natural are movements there?
> Still, I'll go for it...
Please share your thoughts after trying it (while I do like the way she moves, everybody has different points of view and expectations, especially when it comes to 3D).
Current Member for less than 1 month (at the time of review).
Pros:
++ virtual 3D stripper as advertised
++ movements are surprisingly natural
++ clothing "fits" the girl surprisingly naturally
+ different outfits
+ several dozens of movements
+ "queue" of movements to make continuous dance
+ "stripper time" to keep "game" feeling
Cons:
--- only one girl
-- removing clothes is not animated
- sometimes there are "jumps" between different segments
- somewhat confusing interface
-- no site value except for the game
- complicated game activation procedure
Bottom Line:
This site proposes subscription, but obviously it's not about subscription at all. It is just selling of the downloadable 3D game, that's it. Site "extras" in addition to the game itself include only a few 3D toons and several "same old" video feeds of dubious quality.
Now about the game.
The good. On the first glance it is surprisingly entertaining. After getting through download and all the registrations and activations, you can see a girl which dances some random dance, and you can tell her what to do next. Actions are placed into the "queue" so you can make long dance sequence. You can change girl outfit, or ask her to remove some or all clothing. To keep things more interesting, there is "stripper time" which requires some attention (not too bad to distract from the girl). Girl movements are surprisingly natural (obviously somehow scanned from some real dancing girl), and clothes fit her naturally too. There are a few dozens of different movements, and 4 or 5 different outfits (each consisting of 4 items, and each item can be taken off separately).
The bad. On the second glance, it starts to become boring. There is only ONE girl, and number of outfits and movements, while pretty big, still starts to become boring in an hour or so. When the girls takes something off, it is not animated (item just fades away) and it doesn't help too.
The ugly. There some minor but annoying things with the site and game: my login wasn't activated until a few hour after paying, activation procedure was complicated and confusing, and UI isn't too obvious. But these issues were quite minor and don't affect bottom line much.
Bottom line: while there is definitely NO value in recurring subscription, one-time "subscription" (to purchase the game @19.95) MIGHT make some sense if you're turned on by the girls merely stripping. While usually I don't include pricing into consideration, in this case I can't help but to say that value for money isn't good here. If the site would throw in more girls/outfits/movements (or at least include their 3D Girls), I would rate them higher.
I see your point, but as I see it now (and as I've seen it yesterday), it doesn't redirect, at least right now. It is not a big deal, but if possible I prefer if you can keep my hard work spent on writing that review :-).
For 4RealAmateurs, there is a sister site 4RealSwingers, about which I even wrote a review some time ago. Now TBP/PU don't seem to list 4RealSwingers anymore, but the site itself (4RealSwingers.com) is still alive. It might be a clone (no idea if it is a clone or not), but you guys usually keep even clones listed (especially those ones with reviews).
Current Member for less than 1 month (at the time of review).
Pros:
+ genuine real swingers
+ recent videos are of very good quality (not Hollywood and not Private DVDs, but still quite good 1280x720).
+ occasional acting guys as cameraguys is an interesting twist adding reality feeling
+ variety (what about DP scene shot completely in infrared? :-))
+ decent post-processing (especially for amateur clips)
+ active forum
+ calendar of recent and upcoming updates
+ overall excellent job of webmaster
Cons:
- some models look booored while doing it
- older videos are of poor quality
- even not so old videos (720x480) have significant visible interlacing, so ONLY most recent ones are good
- cameraguy work sometimes isn't too good
Bottom Line:
it is a quite a unique site aiming at showing real swingers, and I should admit it's the best such attempt I've seen to date. Formally it consists of a bunch of individual model sites under single umbrella, but essentially done by the same people and very consistent.
These guys and girls look as they're doing it for real (at least most of the time); it's full of conversations which show it's indeed for real, and most of them are having fun. On the other hand, sometimes models have such a boored expression on the face, that it ruins much of reality feeling; fortunately it doesn't happen too often (personally I especially liked Brooke for her "live" face).
Variety is excellent - any kind of group action is here (except for anything MM), up at least to 3+3, with significant amount of anal and DP thrown in, and occasional twists like infrared shot or interracial guy.
Technically recent videos are VERY good (VERY decent 1280x720 at 3Mbit/s), but more earlier ones aren't so good; even 720x480 has interlacing problems which pretty much ruin quality when panning.
Website is excellent too, it has lots of features to make it more enjoyable (like search through all the sub-sites or slideshow); the only thing I found missing is ZIPped picture download.
Bottom line: VERY decent site for lovers of amateur orgy sites with not so amateurish quality; for lovers of this niche it is HIGHLY recommended (it would get even higher rating if not for some boored model faces).
Current Member for less than 1 month (at the time of review).
Pros:
+ "stranger" storyline
+ really average-looking guys
+ quite long pre-action video, adding some additional twist
+ lots of bonus sites (FilthFreaks network)
Cons:
-- I don't really believe in "as a member of ALuckyStranger.com you could win a chance to have blindfolded sex with anonymous strangers aka pornstars!"
- girls attractiveness varies
- poor lighting
- only 640x480 clips of rather poor quality
- pictures are 640x480, probably video screencaps
-- PRE_CHECKED cross-sales when purchasing
- cross-sales within member area
- minor technical problems with the site
The site leaves mixed feelings. On one hand, the idea is not bad (though I don't really believe any site which claims that it's members will have a chance to fuck models). On the other hand, it is rather poorly implemented.
Quality of videos is limited to rather poor 640x480 @800kBit/s (looks that guys didn't know what deinterlacing is about); lighting is poor, girls are not top-notch (though are not that ugly as on BlackGandWhiteBang), actions are not too different from each other.
Site has about 35 episodes, each consisting of 4-5 clips of up to 10 minutes each. Pictures are about 1024x768, but quality is poor (like that of screencaps). Like on BlackGandWhiteBang, updates are not dated and most likely are infrequent. Also I've experienced the same several minor technical problems (like "Cannot find server" errors), as on BlackGandWhiteBang.
Overall, while judging from just two sites can be too early, it seems to me that this whole FilthFreaks network is just an attempt to resell some old content. While I don't see anything bad with this idea as such, but for FilthFreaks content quality (from model selection to encoding), which wasn't top-notch (to put it mildly) even when it was produced, looks even worse these days.
Bottom line: if all the sites in the network will be of such dubious quality, I don't think it will be attractive even at the special PU price; there are many places where you can get MUCH better content at at least comparable prices. Still, stay tuned for further reviews of FilthFreak sites.
> I have no idea how reliable those stats are, nor what market segment they apply to.
I'd say that it would be a good idea to research this kind of stats BEFORE implementing such a restriction, wouldn't it?
> We know that 100% of our subscribers have JS enabled.
Sure, as you throw away everybody else :-)
> I am not sure of the details of your case
My case is very simple - content of your site isn't unique enough for me to mess with yet another "protection system that magically solves all the problems and doesn't cause any problems except for one single customer".
With about 4-5% of all the users having JavaScript disabled
(see for example here: http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2007/November/javas.php ) I don't see how it can possibly affect only single user if you're speaking about many thousands users. Something doesn't really add up here (could theoretically be that only one user out of 100 having problems complains, but it doesn't look too likely, does it?)
The only question left is - why 99% of other sites can live without these "advanced protection systems which never cause any problems except for one single customer" and your site cannot?
Actually quite a few adult sites cause authentication problems for their users, and as far as I'm concerned I'll never join such a site unless they have content which cannot possibly be found elsewhere.
I have no idea how it really works on AbbyWinters, so it can work good, but I'm becoming tired of all that modern 'protection' systems with problems in some browsers, sessions expiring and requiring to relogin (and enter picture from code) every half an hour, prompts of "please close all your browser windows before logging in again", temporarily blocked accounts just because of 'protection' system glitches (or because my ADSL got reconnected and my IP has changed in the middle of the session) and so on and so on.
And the funny part is that even if Internet is full of complaints about problems with some site, support still always says "You're the only person experiencing this problem" :-(.
Why some sites can do it simply and properly and some are trying to do some 'protection' at the expense of users (which can easily cost a LOT because of loss of user loyalty)?
Current Member for less than 1 month (at the time of review).
Pros:
++ 3D virtual photostudio with girls willing to pose
++ 6 different girls
++ EXCELLENT 3D graphics quality
++ WILD variety of outfits
+ option of g/g strap-on action
+ movements between poses are animated
+ free download to get an idea (no nudity and only one girl in free version, but quality is the same)
Cons:
-- limited variety of actions
-- duo (g/g) action seems to be added later and not so-well developed or integrated
- no b/g
-- undressing is not animated
- movements between poses sometimes look wierd.
Bottom Line:
This site is both quite similar and quite different from other 3D games I've recently seen (see my reviews of 3DPlaything and PlaySexGame). It is similar because it is downloadable real 3D game with ability to control camera angle, zoom, lighting and so on. It is different because of quality of implementation - ActiveDolls IMHO presents MUCH better 3D graphics, attention to details and overall experience.
First of all, you get six girls to play with. And variety of outfits to dress them is HUGE - I'd say it's at least a few hundred of different items. Then, you get a girl into some setting where you can tell her to change pose (moving is animated, but sometimes looks strange) or to undress (undressing is not animated). Then you can either to control her movements, or tell her to please herself, and then you get your virtual camera (even with lighting control and some effects, like sepia) to take shots of the girl and make an album out of them. Girls look VERY good, and all the details and UI are well-organized and convenient. What makes this game not so interesting is lack of sex and lack of variety; poses are the same in every setting, there is no b/g sex, and g/g sex is VERY limited (looks that it was added later and it isn't as integral part of the game as the rest).
Bottom line: so far clearly the best out of all the games of similar nature I've seen; still, lack of different actions limit it's attractiveness. On the other hand, if running photo studio with beautiful girls willing to strip and perform solo actions according to your wishes has always been an unsatisfied dream of yours, this game can be just for you.
Yes, please comment on real 3D options, because I've tried "cross-eye" method and while I was able to see 3D effect, it took too much efforts to enjoy it :-(.
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